Odds of Jaime and Brienne Ending Up Together

[Le Cygne]

I hope he kills Cersei in cold blood and I hope her last vision is of Jaime and Brienne together.

Oh yes, please. :)

[Currawong]

One part of me would indeed like that, but I believe that Jaime will always love Cersei in some way, even if their sexual relationship is over and the incest 'divorce' is made final. She is his twin, they have shared so much, and I think that if he had to kill her it would devastate him in many ways, no matter how much he loved Brienne.

He would desperately 'need' Brienne and her love if he were forced to kill Cersei, and she would need all her understanding and forgiveness to help him. It would not be easy at all for either of them. :(

[Davos' fingertip]

what seems more likely for GRRM to do is that when Brienne and Jaime finally accept each other, Cersei kills Brienne, followed by the valonqar Jaime killing Cersei. Perfect love triangle.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I think that the text indicates that Jaime is still sexually imprinted on Cersei, and may always be. For example, when Jaime learns that Cersei has been unfaithful to him he becomes bitter and verbally abusive of her, but he does not jump into bed with another woman. Compare that behavior to Cersei's. When she finds out that Robert is fooling around, she cuckolds him with Jaime, and later, when Jaime is away, she does the Lancel, Kettleblack, Moonboy thing. I'm not making this comparison to say that Jaime is better than Cersei, but to say that he is fundamentally unwilling or unable to hit the sheets with anyone else.

Although I'm prepared to be surprised . . .

[Lyanna Stark]

One part of me would indeed like that, but I believe that Jaime will always love Cersei in some way, even if their sexual relationship is over and the incest 'divorce' is made final. She is his twin, they have shared so much, and I think that if he had to kill her it would devastate him in many ways, no matter how much he loved Brienne.

He would desperately 'need' Brienne and her love if he were forced to kill Cersei, and she would need all her understanding and forgiveness to help him. It would not be easy at all for either of them. :(

I agree with this. Killing your sibling, even after a falling out, is a dreadful thing. I really hope it never needs to come to that. Cersei is also in effect both Jaime's twin and his ex-wife, in a way.

Regarding Jaime being attracted to other people, as of end AFFC/ADWD he is though, since we see him being somewhat titillated by both Pretty Pia and Hildy, Jonos Bracken's mistress. His "two steps forward, one step backwards" is fairly typical behaviour in a breakup situation and actually makes it completely realistic.

[Currawong]

I'm not making this comparison to say that Jaime is better than Cersei, but to say that he is fundamentally unwilling or unable to hit the sheets with anyone else.

Well, I would say that exactly parallels many RL situations. :) When a relationship breaks up, one partner may decide to get over it (or celebrate their freedom!) by having sex with others, and that's fine. Equally, another person may take a long while to get over the hurts and not feel any desire to leap into another sexual relationship immediately. People just deal with things differently. Jaime's clearly the second type, but there's nothing to say he wouldn't ever have sex with another woman - he's certainly felt a few stirrings, as Lyanna Stark points out, but he hasn't felt any need to take things further. I get the impression that Jaime is a man who needs to feel some form of emotional involvement with a woman before having sex, and for him it's not just a matter of relieving physical urges.

Of course, the fact that he seems to be taking his KG oath and responsibilities seriously now, as the LC, may have an impact. And if those vows and his KG role require celibacy, then I could see Jaime remaining celibate.

Though as a J/B shipper, I sincerely hope it's not a permanent state, LOL ;)

[Rose-Papillon]

This has just become my favourite post ever:

http://asoiaf.wester...40#entry3372068

How anyone can read all of that and still argue that Jaime and Brienne's relationship is completely platonic, I'll never understand.

Will they end up together? Who knows, but there is something there.

As for their future, well, this is GRRM so who really knows? I did however have one theory about J/B that I posted yesterday in another thread:

I have a theory about Maggy the Frog's prophecy for Cersei.

She told Cersei that the Valonqar (little brother, second born son) would strangle her and that's how she'll die. Most people in fandom believe that this refers to Jaime, but why would Jaime kill Cersei?

He has left her and refused her call for help, but he doesn't yet have reason to kill her and then himself (which is the other popular theory).

I was reading a thread about Brienne and Jaime last night, when it occured to me.

Cersei had (most likely) previously killed another girl for taking an interest in Jaime by pushing the girl down a well.

I think that it's likely that Jaime and Brienne's relationship will develop further again in Winds of Winter. Cersei will find out and somehow have Brienne killed. This would give Jaime the motivation he needs to kill his sister and then possibly himself.

I'm not even necessarily saying that Brienne and Jaime would need to become a couple before this could happen.

They would just need to become close enough for Cersei to consider Brienne a threat which, let's face it, wouldn't take much.

[MsLibby]

I'm vague on the girl in the well reference. Can you remind me please? What is that story

[Lyanna Stark]

I'm vague on the girl in the well reference. Can you remind me please? What is that story

Cersei pushed her friend into a well so she died because she presumed to want to marry Jaime. After they'd been to Maggy the Frog, btw.

[Kittykatknits]

I rather like the Quiet Isle as a possibility. GRRM took great care to set that all up, including the interesting history of the Elder Brother.

And of course, we know Sandor is there. :) If Jaime and Brienne are looking for Sansa, and the 'old' Hound is there after recovering from the wounds sustained while trying to take Arya north, then some sort of meeting on the QI would rather neatly combine the J/B + Sansa storyline with the possibility of Sansa/Sandor. See - two ships happily sailing side by side! :D

I'm 100 convinced that we will see the QI again. It's a great place for Martin to put people until he needs them again. Something is going to happen there, whether that is Sansa taking Ser Sweetrobin or Brienne, Jaime, and Sandor joining up to go find Sansa. But, then how would the three of them trust each other enough to go look for her? And wouldn't they be wandering just as much as Brienne was back in Feast?

One part of me would indeed like that, but I believe that Jaime will always love Cersei in some way, even if their sexual relationship is over and the incest 'divorce' is made final. She is his twin, they have shared so much, and I think that if he had to kill her it would devastate him in many ways, no matter how much he loved Brienne.

He would desperately 'need' Brienne and her love if he were forced to kill Cersei, and she would need all her understanding and forgiveness to help him. It would not be easy at all for either of them. :(

Is this the thread we were talking about this earlier? Jaime has been in a relationship with Cersei for most of his life. I think he's going through divorce proceedings, in a very messy and normal way, but even if he moves forward in a relationship with Brienne, he'll be impacted by Cersei for years. She would always be a part of him and it would take a lot from Brienne to both help him and be understanding. I think she has it within her but there is a pretty big element of bittersweet to the idea of them together I think.

what seems more likely for GRRM to do is that when Brienne and Jaime finally accept each other, Cersei kills Brienne, followed by the valonqar Jaime killing Cersei. Perfect love triangle.

I think it's going to be over Tommen. When Jaime is fighting with Payne, he says something about not being able to kill her because Tommen has already suffered so much.

[Khal Drogo's Mighty Thighs]

Jaime is, indeed, on a whole knightly crusade of honour and redemption. He's undergone some major epiphany and is attempting, to the best of his ability, to right the wrongs of his past, and become a man of honur and integrity. Existing alongside Brienne has been the catalyst for this dramatic change of character- through observing her, his cynacism of both knighthood and the value of honour, have been disproved. To him, she is the epitomy of everything a knight ought to strive for. Furthermore, she is not superficial or orientated towards looks, as Jaime was and Cersie is. Jaime has changed because of her.

Cersei, on the other hand, has further spiralled down the path to crazybitchland, and is both paranoid and foolish. She has become almost Stalinistic by torturing and eventually killing some of her most trusted and secret confidants, while also breaking strong and essential alliances on the most fleeting distrusting impulse and a whim.

I believe that either two scenarios could play out-

1. Jaime undergoes such a dramatic change of character that he and Brienne do, ultimately, get together- Jaime does find himself aroused by Brienne's nakedness at one point in the book already. I feel that, perhaps, Jaime will shed his former superficial nature, and recognise the inner beauty of Brienne, along with her integrity, her honour, her goodness. He and Brienne will shack up, they will both find themselves happy, and will ride off into the distance to be happy with one another.

2. Jaime will discover the chivalrous life of a knight in such company as Brienne's, and he and Brienne will continue their Platonic relationship of honourable knighthood and attempt to find Sansa Stark. Cersei will issue a decree to find her twin brother, and both Jaime and his companions (Brienne) ought to be returned to King's Landing. Eventually, Jaime and Brienne are captured and returned to the capital. Cersei is outraged that Jaime didn't ride to her defence and champion her, and mocks Jaime for abandoning her for one so ugly as Brienne. Jaime then defends Brienne and declares that she has more honour than Cersei could ever understand, and is twice the woman she is. Cersie then mocks Jaime's sense of honour and calls him "Kingslayer". She then has Brienne killed, out of jealousy. Jaime, horrified and enraged, cuts down Cersei's guards with newfound swordsmanship in his left hand, he then throttles a bewildered Cersei with his golden hand. Perhaps he quotes Tyrion, "Hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm."

He strangles Cersie, fulfilling her prophecy that she would die at the hands of the "valonqar"- the "little brother," whom she had always taken to mean Tyrion, the imp. Two things could happen at this moment, either:

a) Jaime swears to uphold Brienne of Tarth's honour, and swears always to remember her by being the Knight he should be. He abandons his name as a Lannister and leaves King's Landing.

b ) With Brienne, Cersei's guards and Cersie herself lying dead on the floor, Jaime cradles his sister's head, reminiscing how they always said they would die together before the rest of the guards break into the chamber and cut him down.

Would be cool huh? That's how Ihink things are gonna play out for the two of them. Either one of those two scenarios. Either a Shakespeare-esque "everyone dead" kind of scene or one of redemption and happiness.

[Rose-Papillon]

Excellent post and username, Khal Drogo's Mighty Thighs!

[Tini]

I think it's going to be over Tommen. When Jaime is fighting with Payne, he says something about not being able to kill her because Tommen has already suffered so much.

I can see Jaime killing Cersei if she marries again, especially if she marries someone from the enemy camp. He already felt betrayed by Cersei sleeping with other men. Such a marriage would betray / endanger their children as well.

I don't see Cersei trying to kill Brienne of Tarth. She'll never believe that she might lose Jaime to someone looking like Brienne the Beauty. If she finds out about Brienne's feelings for Jaime, she'll mercilessly ridicule Brienne about it. Brienne is acutely aware what people think of her, of her looks; she would be deeply hurt but she would not question the truth of Cersei's words.

Cersei wouldn't act differently if she realizes that Jaime is attracted to Brienne. She would let Brienne know how her crush on Jaime is making her a laughingstock, that Jaime is just too kind to tell her he is not interested in her. Or that Jaime is laughing about her behind her back, as so many other men are. Cersei is at home with this kind of fight while Brienne is entering it practically unarmed.

It would be interesting to see Jaime's reaction when he finds out about it. He may admire Brienne, and maybe there is growing attraction. If there is, I doubt he is aware of it - or that the feeling is mutual. It would be ironic if Cersei makes him realize this by trying to get rid of her rival.

[Currawong]

I think it's going to be over Tommen. When Jaime is fighting with Payne, he says something about not being able to kill her because Tommen has already suffered so much.

Well, if the prophecy is to be true in all respects, both Tommen and Myrcella have to die, and seemingly before Cersei does at the hand of the valonquar.

I can see Jaime killing Cersei if she marries again, especially if she marries someone from the enemy camp. He already felt betrayed by Cersei sleeping with other men. Such a marriage would betray / endanger their children as well.

I don't see that. Yes, Tywin's idea about Cersei marrying again certainly hit Jaime when Cersei told him about it but Jaime did not immediately rush off to Tywin and protest about it. The more Jaime distances himself from Cersei, the more I think he would let her remarry, because he is slowly coming to the point of letting her go. And marrying again wouldn't endanger the children - Tommen would be raised as a future king, and Myrcella is already in Dorne (even if injured). Cersei can't / won't say anything about the incest, because to do so would endanger her life as well as the children's, and she has also (falsely) sworn to the new High Septon that there was nothing and no-one else apart from Lancel and co.

[Booknerd2]

A quick thought.

Doesn't Brienne eventually have to go back to Evenstar? She is the only heir and it's been a long time. She has work to do so I don't see her going but...

[Currawong]

Well, yes, eventually you would think - but she was given the chance to go back once the reached Kings Landing in ASOS. Jaime told her she could do whatever she liked including returning to Tarth and her father - but she chose (and he knew she would!) to go on the quest for Sansa and try to fulfil both their oaths to Lady Catelyn. Randall Tarly also scornfully offers to send her back home in AFFC, but again she refuses. I only hope that somewhere along the line - perhaps before she left KL? - she was able to send a letter to her father to let him know she was safe and no longer in Vargo Hoat's clutches. After all, her father had thought he was going to have to ransom her. :( (Maybe even Jaime thought to write a formal letter as LC of the KG, telling Lord Selwyn she was safe and a ransom was not needed?)

[Kittykatknits]

Well, if the prophecy is to be true in all respects, both Tommen and Myrcella have to die, and seemingly before Cersei does at the hand of the valonquar.

I think she is going to do something that leads to the death of Tommen actually. His statement that he couldn't kill her because of Tommen was very revealing. If Tommen is gone, what is stopping Jaime from killing her at that point? I don't know what will happen to Myrcella.

I don't see that. Yes, Tywin's idea about Cersei marrying again certainly hit Jaime when Cersei told him about it but Jaime did not immediately rush off to Tywin and protest about it. The more Jaime distances himself from Cersei, the more I think he would let her remarry, because he is slowly coming to the point of letting her go. And marrying again wouldn't endanger the children - Tommen would be raised as a future king, and Myrcella is already in Dorne (even if injured). Cersei can't / won't say anything about the incest, because to do so would endanger her life as well as the children's, and she has also (falsely) sworn to the new High Septon that there was nothing and no-one else apart from Lancel and co.

I completely agree. I think he would not do anything to stop her from remarry at this point either.

A quick thought.

Doesn't Brienne eventually have to go back to Evenstar? She is the only heir and it's been a long time. She has work to do so I don't see her going but...

In theory, but I agree with Currawong. I highly doubt Evenstar is going to make an appearance in the series.

[Le Cygne]

I'm down with Jaime killing Cersei to defend Brienne, but not all the tragic stuff, how about a little of the sweet part of bittersweet. I'm just not a big angst lover in stories.

Bugger Cersei, to quote the Hound. The man is teh sex, he's going to get some action, that's what all the ogling was about. The new regime isn't going to want the Kinglsayer guarding the king.

[Booknerd2]

That's a great point. I always pondered what it would take for Jaime to kill Cersei. I don't think premediated or killing her just out of anger, or to stop her, or whatever. It would be to protect someone else or something he had to do in the moment of something. I can see Jaime killing Cersei if Brienne was in danger of losing her life. I am still not sure he would kill her to protect his kids unless it were a her or them situation.

[Currawong]

Bugger Cersei, to quote the Hound. The man is teh sex, he's going to get some action, that's what all the ogling was about. The new regime isn't going to want the Kinglsayer guarding the king.

ROFl. I'm all for the idea of some action, and if the new regime doesn't want the Kimgslayer guarding the king (or queen), then that's great. I am sure Brienne will have no problems taking him home to, er, 'guard' her ;)