Why Jon Snow is NOT A TARGARYEN!

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Yes, I know. That's what I've been saying. He's legitimate to those who think of Robb as their king. But people like Aegon or Daenerys probably wouldn't acknowledge his decree, because to do so would be to acknowledge that Robb was a true king.

I don't think it would matter what Aegon, Dany, or anyone else thought about Robb's degree. As long as the North and Riverlands accepted it...Jon's good...as Jon Stark anyway.

[Hear Us Roar]

Even if he is Rhaegar's son there is no real way to verify this. Reed has no reason to start blabbing after all these years either.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Even if he is Rhaegar's son there is no real way to verify this. Reed has no reason to start blabbing after all these years either.

I believe there are a number of ways, but it's all based on assumption and speculation. I also doubt that GRRM would make this such a big mystery if he didn't have a way to reveal the truth.

[The Night's Prince]

Even if he is Rhaegar's son there is no real way to verify this. Reed has no reason to start blabbing after all these years either.

There's always a way. Always.

[Commander Jon Snow]

I always thought that the R+L=J storyline was something Bran and maybe Jon would learn so that he understands his fate as AA. I never thought he'd go to Westeros claiming the crown

[The Night's Prince]

I always thought that the R+L=J storyline was something Bran and maybe Jon would learn so that he understands his fate as AA. I never thought he'd go to Westeros claiming the crown

Shouldn't you be like on the ground covered in your own blood after that mutiny? Lord Commander no more. :cool4:

[Commander Jon Snow]

Shouldn't you be like on the ground covered in your own blood after that mutiny? Lord Commander no more. :cool4:

Well, us Starks are hard to kill

[Helecere]

Maybe we will all find out during the next books? Remember that Robb, before he went to the Red Wedding sent som men to the Reeds with a document announcing who his heir would be? If the document says it should be Jon, and the document is given to Howland Reed then he might cast a little light on the truth?! What say you?

[Booknerd2]

I believe in R&L=J. I just thought how I also always believed that a pregant Lyanna and even when she spent time there together did not "fend for themselves."

There had to be a servant or two. Many of us focus on Wylla the nurse too.

I think they were married secretly too. So....who married them. A septon? I am curious. I feel that more people know than we currently are aware of, and must have just kept their silence.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Not quite sure how this thread is so long when the argument was squashed in the first few replies.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Not quite sure how this thread is so long when the argument was squashed in the first few replies.

This forum in a nutshell. :D

[Pyrrhus of Epirus]

As far as I'm concerned, Jon is more certainly not a Targ. I don't buy into the Lyanna + Rhaegar theory personally, and if I did, he would still not be a targ. He acts nothing like a targ, looks nothing like a targ, even if he were Rhaegar+Lyanna's child, I'd consider him a Stark first and foremost. But I'm confident he isn't Rhaegar's love child, and instead is Ned's bastard child with that one girl from that one island that was briefly mentioned in one POV.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

As far as I'm concerned, Jon is more certainly not a Targ. I don't buy into the Lyanna + Rhaegar theory personally, and if I did, he would still not be a targ. He acts nothing like a targ, looks nothing like a targ, even if he were Rhaegar+Lyanna's child, I'd consider him a Stark first and foremost. But I'm confident he isn't Rhaegar's love child, and instead is Ned's bastard child with that one girl from that one island that was briefly mentioned in one POV.

If you're talking about the fisherman's daughter, the timeline doesn't fit for it. And apart from that one vague mention that was obviously fourth-hand gossip, there's virtually no mention of it anywhere else in the books.

And plenty of Targs don't look "like Targs," including Jon's own half-sister, who looked Dornish.

[Pyrrhus of Epirus]

If you're talking about the fisherman's daughter, the timeline doesn't fit for it. And apart from that one vague mention that was obviously fourth-hand gossip, there's virtually no mention of it anywhere else in the books.

And plenty of Targs don't look "like Targs," including Jon's own half-sister, who looked Dornish.

Are you trying to convince me that Jon is a Targ? I told you, I don't buy that theory. Ned had a POV, and he never mentioned that it was Lyanna's child, and from my judgement had seen Jon as his own child, which is enough proof for me that Jon is a Stark. Unless the theory is proven that Jon is infact Rhaegar's son, it'll always just be that to me, a theory, to be taken with a grain of salt.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Are you trying to convince me that Jon is a Targ? I told you, I don't buy that theory. Ned had a POV, and he never mentioned that it was Lyanna's child, and from my judgement had seen Jon as his own child, which is enough proof for me that Jon is a Stark. Unless the theory is proven that Jon is infact Rhaegar's son, it'll always just be that to me, a theory, to be taken with a grain of sal.

I'm trying to tell you that the idea that Ned fathered Jon on some fisherman's daughter around White Harbor does not fit the timeline, so if you're looking for Jon's mother, you'd best try someone else as a candidate.

And actually, Ned doesn't seem to see Jon as "his" child. He never thinks of Jon as his son, nor is Jon included when he lists his children in his head while in captivity.

You might want to go read through any of the R+L=J threads. The evidence is, dare I say, overwhelming. Regardless of whether you "buy it" or not.

[Pyrrhus of Epirus]

I'm trying to tell you that the idea that Ned fathered Jon on some fisherman's daughter around White Harbor does not fit the timeline, so if you're looking for Jon's mother, you'd best try someone else as a candidate.

And actually, Ned doesn't seem to see Jon as "his" child. He never thinks of Jon as his son, nor is Jon included when he lists his children in his head while in captivity.

You might want to go read through any of the R+L=J threads. The evidence is, dare I say, overwhelming. Regardless of whether you "buy it" or not.

The evidence may be overwhelming for you, but it's a theory, not a fact, and should be treated as such. You can think Jon is a targ as hard as you want, but you can't tell me I have to believe in it, when it isn't proven. It's a theory, a theory, and should be treated as such. You can treat it however you want, but I'm going to treat it as a theory and I hope you can respect my choice not to buy into something simply because you do.

[Dragonfish]

The evidence may be overwhelming for you, but it's a theory, not a fact, and should be treated as such. You can think Jon is a targ as hard as you want, but you can't tell me I have to believe in it, when it isn't proven. It's a theory, a theory, and should be treated as such. You can treat it however you want, but I'm going to treat it as a theory and I hope you can respect my choice not to buy into something simply because you do.

The problem with this is that you haven't simply been expressing an opinion. You've also been making an argument, and Apple Martini has simply been pointing out the flaws in that argument. So far, your response has been to simply ignore her points and insist you have a right to your opinion. While that is true, that doesn't change the fact that the argument you've made in support of that opinion is flawed.

[TheMysteriousOne]

I really think the R+L=J threads should be read before anyone starts saying that Jon isn't a Targaryen or that he's a bastard.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The evidence may be overwhelming for you, but it's a theory, not a fact, and should be treated as such. You can think Jon is a targ as hard as you want, but you can't tell me I have to believe in it, when it isn't proven. It's a theory, a theory, and should be treated as such. You can treat it however you want, but I'm going to treat it as a theory and I hope you can respect my choice not to buy into something simply because you do.

I'm not telling you that you have to believe in it. I'm pointing out that the main alternative you've proposed — that Ned fathered Jon on this fisherman's daughter — has a fatal flaw and that you probably need to come up with a more viable alternative. I'm also pointing that the evidence is pretty overwhelming and to be frank other than saying "I don't believe it," you haven't really explained why you don't believe it, at least not in a way that can't be easily countered.

[Starkbringer]

It pains me that so many think that because GRRM has chosen to keep Jon's mother a secret thus far that it can only mean that he is Ned's son. The mystery surrounding Jon to me is one of the more fascinating apsects of the books. I don't believe that so much time and effort would have been put into a character that was just going to turn out to be Ned's bastard son. At least I hope not. There is something in the Winterfell Crypts, I think a document, that would legitmize Jon and Ned wanted deperately to get a letter to Jon before he died to tell him (IMO). Jon is a Stark at heart and by blood and Northman throughout. He would probably look forward to going south as much as Lord Eddard did.