why do people hate dany so much and want her to die?

[protar]

Jon feels remorse for breaking his vows, Dany broke no vows so I don't see why she should be remorseful. And Barristan said it best, Daario was effectively a paramour (not much different from Arys Oakheart and Arianne Martell). She's a 17 year old girl who loved her huge warlord and misses him, Daario fills the void. I'm not much of a fan of Daario as he's far too boastful about it but I don't despise Dany for having sex. In fact she does the right thing in marrying Hizdahr for the benefit of Meereen and not herself, she even puts aside her personal ambitions for Westeros for the benefit of those she freed. If she'd have left all the freed slaves to the Yunkish to slaughter people would condemn her.

Basically Dany cannot win, for various reasons people hate her. Some think her a terrible ruler, I'd say she's a hell of a lot better than most of the others we've seen in ASOIAF. Some seem to hate her for Daario, because the Gods forbid a single woman has sex with a man. Some hate her because she's built up as the saviour and they like rooting against those people, that's fine as I personally despise Bran while many like him among other series where I hate the good guys/saviours of it all. But most of the hate is just ridiculous.

Anyway back to Jon, he is constantly saddened by Ygritte. There was nothing wrong with that and there was nothing wrong with Daario.

Dany's relationship with Daario was clearly irresponsible, and obviously angered the Meereenese people. She's trying to instate peace in the city by marrying Hizdahr, but then takes some foreign sellsword for a paramour and cuckolds the king. If Dany had stayed in Meereen longer going about like that I could see some serious civil unrest (more so than before.) and if Dany was a good ruler she would have seen this. And it was also distracting her from the war effort and the training of her dragons. There's nothing wrong with people having sex, but the girl needs to get her priorities straight.

[LuisDantas]

I don't understand why people say that Daenerys isn't dealing with important issues (she is trying to abolish slavery in Essos, for crying out loud) or hasn't progressed personally. She may well be the character who grew the most, from her brother's plaything and prized merchandise to actual ruler with a daring agenda.

[David C. Hunter]

I don't know about the rest of the people but I've never liked her. I cannot with her arrogant and shallow personality. I think she is and would be a terrible queen so I hope she never sits her ass on the Iron Throne, sorry, burning people alive, crucifying people, ordering torture, forgiving crimes cause it was her people who commited them, that's not the queen I want for Westeros. Also dragons, I know people like them but I don't like WMD.

Agreed with this notion.

Various factors, really. I don't think hatred for Daenerys is all that justified, but she does have much going against her.

1. Daenerys shares a problem with Jon Snow: she is a bit too far from the thick of the action and from most other developed characters. It got better for both in the latest books, but their options are still rather limited.

2. She is a girl that is at one time naive and given to feelings of self-importance. That doesn't really help in making her likeable. It doesn't help either that her mistakes have serious consequences, although she is trying hard to avoid them. Truth be told, she was raised without much in the way of options.

3. Essos is simply not as interesting a place as Westeros, at least to me. There are some interesting matters of slavery and society being raised there, but I miss the richer character interactions of the Seven Kingdoms.

4. Daenerys' rule in Meereem has been marked by tragedy, and reeks of famine and widespread mortal disease. Those are depressing themes and people are to be expected to want to avoid them.

It is very much justified, but it is also very objective.

Main reasons IMHO

1. A lot of her plotlines are just boring.

2. Westeros is simply way more interesting than Slaver's Bay and Qarth and Martin seems way better at worldbuilding when he uses the Western medieval civilization as a base compared to when he uses Eastern influences.

3. Plain old sexism

4. Jon's fangirls and fanboys are afraid Dany will still his thunder and be the real saviour.

5. She called Ned Stark "Usurper's dog", which really annoys many of the Stark fans.

6. People fear she'd be the cause of a deux-ex-machina type of ending by saving the world with her dragons, which will render the rest of the series somewhat irrelevant.

IDK why ppl continue to call Dany a slut, it is simply a stupid statement to make. I mean if that's the case than Asha Greyjoy and Arianne Martell are sluts as well. It's only a very small group of Dany haters that hate her for this reason. Those who dislike her for sleeping with Daario should be ignored.

Anyone who seriously worries about this is also not reading carefully, and probably not giving GRRM enough credit. Dragons are all about the burnination, not planting olive trees and saving the world.

Everyone who hates Dany so much needs to reread her final chapter in ADWD. She is no longer stuck in Mereen, she's mostly worked through that stuff, so why are people still holding it against her??

I agree, the Mereen stuff was a bit challenging compared to the rest of the book. It could have been tightened up a bit in the editing room. But I thought it was far from boring or uneventful. Shit gets real!!

So your saying instead of the deus ex machina ending which will basically have the dragons conquering westeros with ease, she will lead the dragons to westeros and burn everything to the ground instead of planting trees, even though the country is starving and is about to experience a Long Winter? What a great queen like decision that would be.

Shit gets real with fire and blood and that is all she will bring to westeros. Mereen isn't exactly on the rise. Even if Dany arrives in time to win the war Mereen is still plagued with famine, disease, broken economy, jobless people, burning walls and corpses. Im sure if she brings the dothraki in to help win the battle that they would probably get in a good rape session before its over with as well. If she really wanted to stay and help Mereen than she would be stuck there for another year 'after' she wins the war, but somehow I doubt she stays, which means she will basically be leaving the city in ruins. So much for her 'people'.

I strongly dislike Dany, but I also strongly dislike the Targaryans as a whole as well as their coup d etat dragons

[OldCorvid]

I don't hate her, but it does seem that she has a sense of entitlement out of proportion with her actual value. It seems like she wants to dominate just for the sake of dominating. Why does Westeros need another crazy Targaryen and some goddamn firebreathing dragons in the middle of a famine?

She does have a good heart and a lot of determination, but it seems like she has a wacked-out sense of ambition that she is able to get away with only because GRRM just makes everything work out for her. It's a little annoying that he set up this world where people like Ned Stark lose out to harsh political reality but so far some teenager seems to be rising to power on the strength of magical fire resistance, some dragons, and a birthright despite some very reckless decisions.

To some extent this is true of Bran (who is probably my least favorite Stark but I'm still rooting for him) and might become true of Jon, but neither of them came into their own plotline with the attitude of "I am the one," and Jon was motivated by his sense of duty and Bran by his curiosity and dreams.

So I don't hate her, but I don't want the series to end with her as the hero. It would be boring, and it would shortchange the rest of the characters I think. So I do "want her to die" in the sense that I think it would be more interesting than her saving the world. But there's lots of other plotlines besides dying that I'd be happy about.

I do think she could be a "force for good" in the sense of her firebreathing dragons being some kind of superweapon against the others, but I would find this to be boring and unearned.

[Milcov]

So your saying instead of the deus ex machina ending which will basically have the dragons conquering westeros with ease, she will lead the dragons to westeros and burn everything to the ground instead of planting trees, even though the country is starving and is about to experience a Long Winter? What a great queen like decision that would be.

Shit gets real with fire and blood and that is all she will bring to westeros. Mereen isn't exactly on the rise. Even if Dany arrives in time to win the war Mereen is still plagued with famine, disease, broken economy, jobless people, burning walls and corpses. Im sure if she brings the dothraki in to help win the battle that they would probably get in a good rape session before its over with as well. If she really wanted to stay and help Mereen than she would be stuck there for another year 'after' she wins the war, but somehow I doubt she stays, which means she will basically be leaving the city in ruins. So much for her 'people'.

I strongly dislike Dany, but I also strongly dislike the Targaryans as a whole as well as their coup d etat dragons

I really doubt she'll just go and burn everything, you're really grasping at straws there.

This second part shows the big problem with her haters, whatever she does she'd be damned by them. You seem to say you'd dislike her for leaving Meereen, but she's widely criticised for staying in Meereen, so what does she do? So Meereen is in economic problems due to her ending of slavery, not exactly a terrible thing. And now she's being criticised for potentially winning the war for them if she brings Drogon and the Dothraki? Seriously people need to give her a break if they expect to legitimately provide reasons for not liking a character. I can understand if people just have a whole hatred of House Targaryen, well not understand but at least it shows clearly why they hate her not some bogus reasoning.

[LuisDantas]

Protar, Daenerys is trying hard. And her relationship with Daario happened just before her marriage, not after.

[Axon]

I like Dany, but she's gone downhill a little bit. Jon and Dany are mirror images; they both took power too early, and both have made mistakes based on that power. Neither is mature enough to really rule. Jon does a little better, but then, he's leading a military organization. Dany is essentially playing the game of thrones...and she kinda sucks at it.

[salt]

Want her to die? Nah, she can live, I would just prefer that she stays in Essos instead of coming to Westeros and burning 80 percent of my favorite characters.

[Milcov]

Dany's relationship with Daario was clearly irresponsible, and obviously angered the Meereenese people. She's trying to instate peace in the city by marrying Hizdahr, but then takes some foreign sellsword for a paramour and cuckolds the king. If Dany had stayed in Meereen longer going about like that I could see some serious civil unrest (more so than before.) and if Dany was a good ruler she would have seen this. And it was also distracting her from the war effort and the training of her dragons. There's nothing wrong with people having sex, but the girl needs to get her priorities straight.

Sorry I just don't view it as that bad. You say she doesn't have her priorities sorted out, I'd say she has her priorities in the correct place. She married Hizdahr for political purposes. She also did her 'duty' to Hizdahr after the marriage and opened the fighting pits for Meereen. And she doesn't have sex with Daario after marrying Hizdahr (I know she doesn't have the chance but you can't hate her for something she didn't do). Dany was quite a good Queen in the situation with Hizdahr, she married him to bring peace, gave him some concessions and sorted out the murders in Meereen.

If she'd put all her time into training the dragons then she'd be damned for ignoring the problems facing Meereen, she handled the dragons quite well IMO. How was she supposed to train them, she's not a perfect ruler but she's better than the following:

Robert - Bankrupted a prosperous kingdom and ignored all problems

Aerys - Mad King

Joffrey - Aerys III

Cersei/Tommen - Cersei is the worst parts of Dany amplified and then with the good bits removed

Robb - Good tactician and little else. Threw away his kingdom

Renly - Total nincompoop

And arguably Jon as Lord Commander, he failed to heed warnings and see dissent in his subordinates.

[salt]

Oberyn, you realize all of the character's you mentioned have tons of readers who hate them, right? And so does Dany.

As for having her priorities straight, I don't think thats the case. Her goal is to conquer Westeros, yet she has 0 interest in learning about its reality. Five books in to the series and 90 percent of what she knows about Westeros is still from the stories Viserys told her. She refuses to acknowledge the truth about the Mad King, or even to ask for information about him. She has Selmy by her side and hasn't once taken the time to speak with him and learn the truth. Forget about the fact that he was her father for a minute- he was one of the single most important historical figures in Westeros, and the country she wants to conquer has been irrevocably shaped by his life, and yet she doesn't want to know anything about him. Targ king= good, Usurper and Usurper's dogs= bad. Thats about the extent of Dany's political knowledge of Westeros.

Having zero curiosity to understand the realm of tens of millions of people you want to rule is not what I would call "having your priorities straight".

[LuisDantas]

Renly was a wise ruler as far as we have learned, certainly better than his brothers or most Lannisters save Tyrion and Kevan.

Robb, too,was actually quite accomplished. He just had too much going against him.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

I don't hate Dany at all, she's not my favorite character but she's not horrible either. The HoTU chapters were really good and there were many great chapters in every book.

I think Dany NEEDS to be in Essos otherwise people would just be like "Fuck George why didn't you show us Essos until Tyrion had to escape and Arya had to go to Braavos?".

I also think it's important we see another setting besides Westeros, and a big reason for this is slavery. Even Tyrion points it out and it's mentioned by some Mereneese characters in the novels; how slaves in Essos are pretty much the same thing as regular people in Westeros. There's many comparisons about how people are treated the same way in both continents by the aristocracy and at the end of the day both populations are slaves be it officially or unofficially. This just shows the hypocritical set of mind in Westeros where the noble families think they've abolished slavery when really the only free folk in the world are north of the Wall. In slaver's bay slaves get whipped throughout the streets and if they escape they get killed with those slings, but look at someone like Mycah, the guy got killed over nothing. It's the same state of mind.

Another reason why GRRM needs to develop the Dany chapters is because she can't be sitting around doing nothing while the characters that need to grow before the climax of the books are ready. What I mean is, certain things/characters need to be advanced before Dany can invade Westeros and meanwhile she's not going to sit around doing nothing and bidding her time while her dragons grow. And no GRRM couldn't have introduced Dany at a later date or not introduced her all because if he did then it would really feel like a deus ex machima, a girl we've seldom heard about now has three dragons and is invading Westeros ? Fuckk thatttt. I don't know what else she could've been doing in Essos other than Mereen while certain plots (Stannis, Kevan, Cersei, Jon) are really well developed and ready for the next stage of the series.

I think that the only problem with Dany is that she was in a position where she could have attacked Westeros and caused some major damage, after ASOS, the overall story that GRRM wanted to tell wasn't ready for that to happen yet. We still needed to learn about the Martells, Cersei & Jaime's romantic fallout, Young Griff, Kevan's death, Theon and his multiple personalities, not to mention Jon's storyline which needed a lot more development. Therefore GRRM had to stall Daenerys, so he had to do the Mereen arc, and GRRM couldn't cut her number of chapters short because a lot of people still like her and she's a fan favorite.

ETA: And about Daario, I think he is important because he shows that Dany isn't fit to rule, be it Westeros or Essos, at least right now. Daario shows that Dany is willing to put the realm aside for some crush and that she isn't mature or responsible enough to sacrifice what she needs to sacrifice in order to rule, at least right now. Meanwhile Jon is able to abandon Ygriette and return to the NW even though he actually had deep feelings for her, not just lust for someone like Dany. Had Dany been in Jon's place she would have deserted for him I think, this just goes to show how inept to rule she is.

[Milcov]

Renly was a wise ruler as far as we have learned, certainly better than his brothers or most Lannisters save Tyrion and Kevan.

Robb, too,was actually quite accomplished. He just had too much going against him.

Renly delayed his armies by constantly having loads of tourneys and flaunting himself. He failed to grasp he was at war and wanted to play at being King. I don't dislike Renly but he was a poor King in the context.

Robb was accomplished as a general and may have been a reasonable Lord. But he broke a marriage contract with a powerful and valuable ally which cost him everything. While he scolds Edmure for disobeying him, he really should have told his intentions to Edmure, Edmure is his uncle and likely Warden of the Riverlands if Robb took his seat in the North (as you'd assume the King in the North would). The fault lies at both there but it's a sign of Robb's weakness as a ruler. Jeyne Westerling was a huge mistake though, it showed his ineptitude as far as I'm concerned.

Oberyn, you realize all of the character's you mentioned have tons of readers who hate them, right? And so does Dany.

As for having her priorities straight, I don't think thats the case. Her goal is to conquer Westeros, yet she has 0 interest in learning about its reality. Five books in to the series and 90 percent of what she knows about Westeros is still from the stories Viserys told her. She refuses to acknowledge the truth about the Mad King, or even to ask for information about him. She has Selmy by her side and hasn't once taken the time to speak with him and learn the truth. Forget about the fact that he was her father for a minute- he was one of the single most important historical figures in Westeros, and the country she wants to conquer has been irrevocably shaped by his life, and yet she doesn't want to know anything about him. Targ king= good, Usurper and Usurper's dogs= bad. Thats about the extent of Dany's political knowledge of Westeros.

Having zero curiosity to understand the realm of tens of millions of people you want to rule is not what I would call "having your priorities straight".

First of all I'm sure they do, but I don't see 2-3 threads for them every week.

And her priorities are surely in the correct order, as Queen of Meereen her main focus is on restoring order and peace to Meereen and Slavers Bay in general. She learned from her mistake in Astapor and did it out of compassion and responsibility for those she freed and who revered her as Queen and Saviour. Her priorities were completely in order, she learned the duties of ruling from Barristan such as political marriages for example and is it not understandable that she bears a little enmity for her fathers killers. Considering the entire nobility of Westeros calls Jaime 'Kingslayer' I'd say it's a bit unfair to say Daenerys is a bit unforgiving to those who destroyed her House. It'd be like telling Robb to hear Joffrey out. With all we know it's a mistake as we know Aerys to be a bad King and Eddard to be just, Dany however isn't in this position. She's a Targaryen who was removed and wanted killed by those in power, of course she'll hate them. It's very understandable, remember Jorah also had no fondness for Eddard.

[salt]

Renly was a wise ruler as far as we have learned

:lmao:

(I would disagree.)

But seriously, it isn't hard to see why so many people don't like Dany. You're either in the Targaryen camp all the way, our you're out. Her storyline has put her completely separate from nearly every other major character in the books. At this point in the books she's still opposed to anyone she sees as being connected to the Usurper, which is most of the character's we have been rooting for. Whether you favor the Starks, Baratheons, or even the Lannisters of Greyjoys, Dany succeeding in her current goal means the potential of dragon-related doom for many of your favorite characters. Personally I don't think it will happen this way, and Dany's dragons might be necessary to beat the Others. What actually happens when (and if) she finally gets to Westeros in the next two books will determine how many readers feel about her.

[Jamie Lannister]

I quite like her, though the "theater" of her story isn't really my scene. I far prefer Westeros.

Still, her final chapter in ADWD was brilliant. I loved seeing her rage at the shade of Viserys.

[stannis halfelven]

She has to go for the same reason that the tsar's children had to go. It's not personal. If you want to make a delicious omelet of the people, you have to break a few Targaryen eggs.

[PatrickStormborn]

A lot of posters have hit the nail on the head, but I think there's another reason: ADWD was disappointing, and many blame the Meereenese knot for this. Personally I thought Dany's ADWD chapters were the best in the book -- she had a clear character arc, and Martin explored some interesting themes (just compare how the Meereenese responded to Dany's paramour with how the Westerosi responded to Robert's constant whoring). They were frustrating on the first read, like Tyrion's and Jon's, because they were slow-paced. But the book itself was slow-paced.

Anyone who hates Dany for calling Ned a "usurper's dog" is really missing the point. Because of Robert's Rebellion, her family was destroyed and she grew up in exile. She's hardly going to thank Ned for not wanting her dead, seeing as it's his fault that she was even in any danger in the first place.

Of course it's quite likely that Dany will learn about R+L=J, meaning she'll have some sort of connection to the Starks.

She hasn't earned her "specialness" in any way whatsoever. That's the real issue.

JFC. How are you supposed to earn "specialness"? I think walking into a funeral pyre and coming out with dragons classifies as "earning" -- particularly as she could have just sold her dragon eggs and lived as a wealthy woman.

[salt]

And her priorities are surely in the correct order, as Queen of Meereen her main focus is on restoring order and peace to Meereen and Slavers Bay in general. She learned from her mistake in Astapor and did it out of compassion and responsibility for those she freed and who revered her as Queen and Saviour. Her priorities were completely in order, she learned the duties of ruling from Barristan such as political marriages for example and is it not understandable that she bears a little enmity for her fathers killers. Considering the entire nobility of Westeros calls Jaime 'Kingslayer' I'd say it's a bit unfair to say Daenerys is a bit unforgiving to those who destroyed her House. It'd be like telling Robb to hear Joffrey out. With all we know it's a mistake as we know Aerys to be a bad King and Eddard to be just, Dany however isn't in this position. She's a Targaryen who was removed and wanted killed by those in power, of course she'll hate them. It's very understandable, remember Jorah also had no fondness for Eddard.

Her goal isn't to rule Mereen, her goal is to conquer Westeros. Thats still her priority. If she ever decides to permanently stay in Mereen, I promise you that people's opinions of her will change when she is no longer planning on bringing destructive, uncontrollable forces to the home of their favorite characters.

But you ignored the second half of what I said- its not just about not wanting to face the truth about her dad's personality, its about having z.e.r.o. interest learning the political reality of the country she wants to conquer and rule. Aerys was more than her father, he was one of the 5 most important political figures in the entire history of Westeros. Trying to invade a country without understanding its history is a recipe for disaster, as many people throughout our own history could tell you. You can't rule a country based on what you think it is or think it should be.

She isn't fueled by a desire to make Westeros better, to stamp out injustice, or even to help the people- she is, as you said, unforgiving of those who destroyed her house, and she wants vengeance. She wants to restore the age of Fire and Blood ruling the Iron Throne. So if you consider bloody and fiery revenge against the people who overthrew an insane tyrant to be a good priority, then yes, she has her priorities in order.

[protar]

Renly delayed his armies by constantly having loads of tourneys and flaunting himself. He failed to grasp he was at war and wanted to play at being King. I don't dislike Renly but he was a poor King in the context.

Robb was accomplished as a general and may have been a reasonable Lord. But he broke a marriage contract with a powerful and valuable ally which cost him everything. While he scolds Edmure for disobeying him, he really should have told his intentions to Edmure, Edmure is his uncle and likely Warden of the Riverlands if Robb took his seat in the North (as you'd assume the King in the North would). The fault lies at both there but it's a sign of Robb's weakness as a ruler. Jeyne Westerling was a huge mistake though, it showed his ineptitude as far as I'm concerned.

First of all I'm sure they do, but I don't see 2-3 threads for them every week.

And her priorities are surely in the correct order, as Queen of Meereen her main focus is on restoring order and peace to Meereen and Slavers Bay in general. She learned from her mistake in Astapor and did it out of compassion and responsibility for those she freed and who revered her as Queen and Saviour. Her priorities were completely in order, she learned the duties of ruling from Barristan such as political marriages for example and is it not understandable that she bears a little enmity for her fathers killers. Considering the entire nobility of Westeros calls Jaime 'Kingslayer' I'd say it's a bit unfair to say Daenerys is a bit unforgiving to those who destroyed her House. It'd be like telling Robb to hear Joffrey out. With all we know it's a mistake as we know Aerys to be a bad King and Eddard to be just, Dany however isn't in this position. She's a Targaryen who was removed and wanted killed by those in power, of course she'll hate them. It's very understandable, remember Jorah also had no fondness for Eddard.

I'd say her priorities are out of order just by declaring herself Queen of Meereen in the first place. Her life's goal is to rule Westeros, and instead she decides to rule over Slaver's Bay, an alien country that she has no right to and little hope of ruling properly. She should have left the moment she'd sacked Astapor.

[eyeheartsansa]

So your saying instead of the deus ex machina ending which will basically have the dragons conquering westeros with ease, she will lead the dragons to westeros and burn everything to the ground instead of planting trees, even though the country is starving and is about to experience a Long Winter? What a great queen like decision that would be.

I never made any prediction as to the ending. I certainly don't thinks she's going to "save" Westeros by burning everything. I really have no idea what will happen if/when Dany reaches Westeros. I just know GRRM woudl never make it that simple; those who worry about some deux ex machina ending from Dany, imo, are barking up the wrong tree. That's the main point I was making.