Moralityof Assassins, a possible rogue and an enemy of dragons

[Frey Pie]

This is not the impression I had from the text but it is interesting to think Tycho could have had hidden motivations. I'll quote the text to further explore and for discussion.

I dont see it as catagorical proof either but when you consider it the Bank is making a rather large investment in a risky venture. The odds are stacked against Stannis. If he wins hel pay back. But if he loses the Iron throne may forfeit the debt seeing as the IB supposted Stannis. The money for 20000sellswords would be colossal. A risky venture indeed. But if they believe Stannis is AA and the men are needed in the North?

There help with Jon is alike above. For me it depends on if the Sealord and the IB believe the rumours heard of beyond the Wall

Tycho seems to hold a lot of power for one banker. He may have been licensed to give Stannis the loan but Jons should have come as a surprise and i would think hed have to consider the situation with his superiors, unless he was under orders to help in any way he can....

[jarl the climber]

I dont see it as catagorical proof either but when you consider it the Bank is making a rather large investment in a risky venture. The odds are stacked against Stannis. If he wins hel pay back. But if he loses the Iron throne may forfeit the debt seeing as the IB supposted Stannis. The money for 20000sellswords would be colossal. A risky venture indeed. But if they believe Stannis is AA and the men are needed in the North?

There help with Jon is alike above. For me it depends on if the Sealord and the IB believe the rumours heard of beyond the Wall

Tycho seems to hold a lot of power for one banker. He may have been licensed to give Stannis the loan but Jons should have come as a surprise and i would think hed have to consider the situation with his superiors, unless he was under orders to help in any way he can....

My thinking on this is that the bank could use its support of Stannis to get another claimant to repay the loan. It will be interesting to see how they respond if someone else offered to pay the debt outright. Dany or the Lannisters could do that.

Jon did give Tycho guides in return for the use of his ships. There are wildings in Bravos from Hardhomme according to Arya. If the ships Tycho loaned to the Watch even return,the crews will have seen the Wights and it will be fact and not rumor. Tycho did meet or see Wu Wun so he can probaly figure out there is some strange shit going on at the Wall. I think Jons being a Stark of sorts did help him with Tycho, I don't think Lord Slynt would have as much sucsess getting a loan.

[Gogossos]

I think Jons being a Stark of sorts did help him with Tycho, I don't think Lord Slynt would have as much sucsess getting a loan.

Even then, Tycho must have excellent leeway in his decision making. I agree that securing his passage to Stannis must have cost something, and his superiors would understand that, but to then go the extra mile and essentially bail out Jon's NW - presumably on some kind of precondition that Stannis gains the throne - is still very risky. Unless, there is an overriding concern (the Others).

[bemused]

Frey pie ..Actually , we don't know what is or isn't allowable to a fully trained FM. Arya is being taught to kill the target and only the target, but she's just a trainee.( learning to walk before she can run ) Once a trainee FM is proven to be highly judicious in how to execute his mission..he may be given more leeway ..and yet more when he's full-fledged.. We've only seen one FM and one trainee so far.

The things we see Jaqen do seem , to me, more likely to be proof of how much license an FM has rather than proof that Jaqen's a rogue.

When Arya asks how she can learn to change her face Jaqen tells her for that she would need to come with him ...Where, she asks.. Far and away across the narrow sea, he replies.. The way the whole conversation is set up, it's not perfectly clear that he intends to go there immediately, but that's where she must accompany him if she would learn.

He gives Arya the iron coin , but we don't know if an FM would carry more than one at any given time. In Oldtown , the Alchemist uses the same method of assassination that Arya uses in Braavos.. a poisoned coin.. but we don't know how long he's been carrying it around. It may be standard equipment any FM carries.He may have had it since before he became Jaqen.

I'd say more, but I have to walk my dogs

[Frey Pie]

Frey pie ..Actually , we don't know what is or isn't allowable to a fully trained FM. Arya is being taught to kill the target and only the target, but she's just a trainee.( learning to walk before she can run ) Once a trainee FM is proven to be highly judicious in how to execute his mission..he may be given more leeway ..and yet more when he's full-fledged.. We've only seen one FM and one trainee so far.

The things we see Jaqen do seem , to me, more likely to be proof of how much license an FM has rather than proof that Jaqen's a rogue.

When Arya asks how she can learn to change her face Jaqen tells her for that she would need to come with him ...Where, she asks.. Far and away across the narrow sea, he replies.. The way the whole conversation is set up, it's not perfectly clear that he intends to go there immediately, but that's where she must accompany him if she would learn.

He gives Arya the iron coin , but we don't know if an FM would carry more than one at any given time. In Oldtown , the Alchemist uses the same method of assassination that Arya uses in Braavos.. a poisoned coin.. but we don't know how long he's been carrying it around. It may be standard equipment any FM carries.He may have had it since before he became Jaqen.

I'd say more, but I have to walk my dogs

Ya what you say is undeniably true. But different people take diferent things from what they read. Your right we have had only a limited view of the FM and that one of the main reasons i raised this topic. Im not sure wel get diffinitive answers but its good to get others thoughts. From my reading of Arya it seems the favoured method of assassination is one in which a FM cannot be seen to be involved-i.e no frontal attacks or sloppiness. This goes against other examples as shown. Its perhaps just as likely that Jaqen is some type of leader of the FM crew, hence his 3 gifts to Arya and her subsequent recruitment. All ideas are equally possible unless proven otherwise in my book

Hope you enjoyed your walk!

[Corm]

From my reading I don't think it was in any way ambiguous, it think it states quite clearly that FM are not supposed to take more than the life "that is owed". In fact it came across to me that this was a fundamental part of their philosophy.

It is interesting to note Jaqen's choice of words and reaction to killing Pate

“And never will,” a voice said sadly.

It reminds me of the Sorrowful Men but it could also suggest that Jaqen is not happy or proud of with having to go against one of the FM principles.

[Frey Pie]

From my reading I don't think it was in any way ambiguous, it think it states quite clearly that FM are not supposed to take more than the life "that is owed". In fact it came across to me that this was a fundamental part of their philosophy.

It is interesting to note Jaqen's choice of words and reaction to killing Pate

It reminds me of the Sorrowful Men but it could also suggest that Jaqen is not happy or proud of with having to go against one of the FM principles.

This is as i saw it as well but anything people read is up for interpretation untill George himself says yay or nay. We know Rorge and Biter have always been together but i wonder if they were in on some plan with Jaqen too....Arya saved the three of them but wether FM, rogue or just a normal man why should he care about Rorge and Biter unless theyre his somehow?

I think its David Simmons who made a new thread over on the General board with a theory on the Citadel/FM having a secret alliance of sorts. Might be interesting to some to have a look at it and could open up some new ideas

[David C. Hunter]

I sincerely doubt from the text within the books that a Braavosi or faceless man will ever, ever help a targ. Everythign in the book has led us to believe that they are against the dragons and have an animosity towards them. GRRM doesn't write sentences with no value. The Braavosi do not like the descendants of the Valyrians...period. As a matter of fact, I do not see any territory in Essos becoming eager for the return of the dragons.

Very interesting thread though

[Corm]

I agree, I think that the dragons are ultimately nothing but a force of destruction. It doesn't matter who controls them they will always be wild killers and in opposition to life.

[Frey Pie]

I sincerely doubt from the text within the books that a Braavosi or faceless man will ever, ever help a targ. Everythign in the book has led us to believe that they are against the dragons and have an animosity towards them. GRRM doesn't write sentences with no value. The Braavosi do not like the descendants of the Valyrians...period. As a matter of fact, I do not see any territory in Essos becoming eager for the return of the dragons.

Very interesting thread though

Thanks hoped you got some new ideas or whatever from it.

My personal belief is that Braavos is holding its breath waiting for the storm. Theyre willing to help Jon and Stannis which are both rather large risky ventures. This tells me that the Braavosi believe the stories heard form the Wall. Perhaps they are also influenced by the Red Priests,whom we know have a large following in Braavos,although not as large as the Moonsingers. However i feel they arent sure if Stannis is A.A. We know the Volantene Red Priests believe Daenaerys is AA so it is possible that communications have occured between the temples and the powers that be in Braavos know of her also. However, she has dragons who are Braavosi enemies. But shes also setting slaves free which goes with the morals the Braavosi and the FM especially who were born in the slave mines of Valyria. So shes either their greatest hero or greatest enemy.

I believe the Braavosi triumvirate then set in motion a number of events. First someone must be sent to keep an eye on Dany, rather like Barristan. They dont want to declare for her or ally with her until they know for sure shes a saviour and has no taint. Therefore i believe a FM was sent to spy on her secretly. I believe this is either Jaqen as Daario or an unknown FM as Missandei. Both are close to Dany and have a certain ammount of influence on her. They are also polar opposites. Missy is soft and gentle and has a loving relationship with Dany. She also councils gentleness and refuses to be sent home. She extremely smart and helps Barristan rule. Daario is Danys kinda guy. He urges her many times to do violence which she refuses. Yet his support for her is seemingly unwavering. Both pull at Dany like an angel and devil on either ear. The Braavosi may be monitoring the situation to see which way Dany turns which is why i fear for her after Dance

At the same time they know of a book called the death of dragons and its hidden in the Citadel. As they are unsure what their stance on Dany is they dont make contact with the Maesters but send another FM to secure this book. The book is dangerous to Dany and her dragons. Therefore i believe they hold a knife at Danys throat, once this book is secure. The Alchemist,whoever he is, is their agent and works towards their ends. Once the book is secured it will be sent to Braavos.

Then Tycho Nestoris is sent by the Iron Bank to help the North as a whole. Its in their interest to help the North prepare for the Storm. If Dany lets them down they still have hope in Stannis and Jon.

Therefore the Braavosi really have their feet in everywhere

[Bran Vras]

I agree wholeheartedly that the Braavosi have already taken measure we haven't seen explicitly concerning the return of dragons and that they have probably an agent, and possibly a sellsword company, in Meereen.

Just like the Volantene are split between the elephant faction, the tiger faction and the followers of R'hllor, the power in Braavos might not reside entirely in the hands of the Sealord. The dying sealord might be the sign that power is shifting in Braavos (just like it is in Volantis).

It's probable that the Iron Bank is very close to the Sealord. The Bankers have the privilege of the purple harbour and the seat of the Bank is in the proximity of the Sealord's Palace.

But the House of Black and White is located near the Red temple and the White temple of Braavos. No other religion is allowed in that area. That suggests stongly that the Faceless Men form a non-secular organisation, since it is accepted as immediate neighbour by the Moonsingers and by the red priests. As I noted in the Jaqen thread, the red and white colours of the hair of Jaqen might mean exactly that.

This is why I would be careful in seeing the Faceless Men as directly the agents of the political power in Braavos.

However, it would be interesting to pick the clues in the Arya chapters to determine the structure of power in Braavos. I noted that there seems to be two preeminent families: the Antaryons and the Prestayns. The current, dying Sealord is an Antaryon.

[David C. Hunter]

Thanks hoped you got some new ideas or whatever from it.

My personal belief is that Braavos is holding its breath waiting for the storm. Theyre willing to help Jon and Stannis which are both rather large risky ventures. This tells me that the Braavosi believe the stories heard form the Wall. Perhaps they are also influenced by the Red Priests,whom we know have a large following in Braavos,although not as large as the Moonsingers. However i feel they arent sure if Stannis is A.A. We know the Volantene Red Priests believe Daenaerys is AA so it is possible that communications have occured between the temples and the powers that be in Braavos know of her also. However, she has dragons who are Braavosi enemies. But shes also setting slaves free which goes with the morals the Braavosi and the FM especially who were born in the slave mines of Valyria. So shes either their greatest hero or greatest enemy.

I believe the Braavosi triumvirate then set in motion a number of events. First someone must be sent to keep an eye on Dany, rather like Barristan. They dont want to declare for her or ally with her until they know for sure shes a saviour and has no taint. Therefore i believe a FM was sent to spy on her secretly. I believe this is either Jaqen as Daario or an unknown FM as Missandei. Both are close to Dany and have a certain ammount of influence on her. They are also polar opposites. Missy is soft and gentle and has a loving relationship with Dany. She also councils gentleness and refuses to be sent home. She extremely smart and helps Barristan rule. Daario is Danys kinda guy. He urges her many times to do violence which she refuses. Yet his support for her is seemingly unwavering. Both pull at Dany like an angel and devil on either ear. The Braavosi may be monitoring the situation to see which way Dany turns which is why i fear for her after Dance

At the same time they know of a book called the death of dragons and its hidden in the Citadel. As they are unsure what their stance on Dany is they dont make contact with the Maesters but send another FM to secure this book. The book is dangerous to Dany and her dragons. Therefore i believe they hold a knife at Danys throat, once this book is secure. The Alchemist,whoever he is, is their agent and works towards their ends. Once the book is secured it will be sent to Braavos.

Then Tycho Nestoris is sent by the Iron Bank to help the North as a whole. Its in their interest to help the North prepare for the Storm. If Dany lets them down they still have hope in Stannis and Jon.

Therefore the Braavosi really have their feet in everywhere

Hey.

It could be. The Iron Bank certainly has power that is only going to increase because they are about to put the entire country in debt, which in a time of winter will mean everything. There are two ways to conquer a territory: 1.) Militarily or 2.) Economically. Which means the Braavosi influence can increase dramatically in a short period of time. This means that anyone can greatly benefit from the Iron Bank's backing, not to mention the Faceless Men they most certainly employ from time to time. It maybe them that hired Jaqen to infiltrate the Citadel.

[bemused]

Frey Pie ..I like your thoughts here, except I still can't see Daario as Jaqen. ( If it comes down to points of similarity in their descriptions , there are more coinciding points between J & A than J & D ).. But the behavior of Daario argues against it as well, for me .Sure, his urging violence to Dany may be to test her...maybe ( but it might prove a dangerous test ). Besides , Daario makes himself a target from the start..people around Dany either hate him ( for various reasons ) or simply don't trust him, or disapprove of him , or some combination thereof. The Meereenese certainly hate him. I would think an FM would want to keep a bit of a lower profile , in the interests of living to complete his / her mission.

Yes ,I think it would be desirable to someone in Braavos to have an agent around Dany, and perhaps, at some point send an envoy to her , once they have her figured out. Daario could be their agent , I suppose.. but by his brash behavior, he seems more likely to be someone else's.. or perhaps to have some personal agenda , like the Tattered Prince.

But if he is Braavos' guy, I don't think he's Jaqen. the Alchemist seems much more plausible.. more consistent with Jaqen's behavior.

ETA : We haven't met a Sealord yet ,but we see from the story that Syrio tells Arya , that what won Syrio his position was his perception ( also extremely important to the FM and the IB )...We have met a few FM ( most only briefly ) and the Kindly Man..and we've met an envoy of the Iron Bank..they all appear thoughtful, and business like , above all.

[The Undead Martyr]

Frey Pie ..I like your thoughts here, except I still can't see Daario as Jaqen. ( If it comes down to points of similarity in their descriptions , there are more coinciding points between J & A than J & D ).. But the behavior of Daario argues against it as well, for me .Sure, his urging violence to Dany may be to test her...maybe ( but it might prove a dangerous test ). Besides , Daario makes himself a target from the start..people around Dany either hate him ( for various reasons ) or simply don't trust him, or disapprove of him , or some combination thereof. The Meereenese certainly hate him. I would think an FM would want to keep a bit of a lower profile , in the interests of living to complete his / her mission.

Yes ,I think it would be desirable to someone in Braavos to have an agent around Dany, and perhaps, at some point send an envoy to her , once they have her figured out. Daario could be their agent , I suppose.. but by his brash behavior, he seems more likely to be someone else's.. or perhaps to have some personal agenda , like the Tattered Prince.

But if he is Braavos' guy, I don't think he's Jaqen. the Alchemist seems much more plausible.. more consistent with Jaqen's behavior.

ETA : We haven't met a Sealord yet ,but we see from the story that Syrio tells Arya , that what won Syrio his position was his perception ( also extremely important to the FM and the IB )...We have met a few FM ( most only briefly ) and the Kindly Man..and we've met an envoy of the Iron Bank..they all appear thoughtful, and business like , above all.

Thanks hoped you got some new ideas or whatever from it.

My personal belief is that Braavos is holding its breath waiting for the storm. Theyre willing to help Jon and Stannis which are both rather large risky ventures. This tells me that the Braavosi believe the stories heard form the Wall. Perhaps they are also influenced by the Red Priests,whom we know have a large following in Braavos,although not as large as the Moonsingers. However i feel they arent sure if Stannis is A.A. We know the Volantene Red Priests believe Daenaerys is AA so it is possible that communications have occured between the temples and the powers that be in Braavos know of her also. However, she has dragons who are Braavosi enemies. But shes also setting slaves free which goes with the morals the Braavosi and the FM especially who were born in the slave mines of Valyria. So shes either their greatest hero or greatest enemy.

I believe the Braavosi triumvirate then set in motion a number of events. First someone must be sent to keep an eye on Dany, rather like Barristan. They dont want to declare for her or ally with her until they know for sure shes a saviour and has no taint. Therefore i believe a FM was sent to spy on her secretly. I believe this is either Jaqen as Daario or an unknown FM as Missandei. Both are close to Dany and have a certain ammount of influence on her. They are also polar opposites. Missy is soft and gentle and has a loving relationship with Dany. She also councils gentleness and refuses to be sent home. She extremely smart and helps Barristan rule. Daario is Danys kinda guy. He urges her many times to do violence which she refuses. Yet his support for her is seemingly unwavering. Both pull at Dany like an angel and devil on either ear. The Braavosi may be monitoring the situation to see which way Dany turns which is why i fear for her after Dance

At the same time they know of a book called the death of dragons and its hidden in the Citadel. As they are unsure what their stance on Dany is they dont make contact with the Maesters but send another FM to secure this book. The book is dangerous to Dany and her dragons. Therefore i believe they hold a knife at Danys throat, once this book is secure. The Alchemist,whoever he is, is their agent and works towards their ends. Once the book is secured it will be sent to Braavos.

Then Tycho Nestoris is sent by the Iron Bank to help the North as a whole. Its in their interest to help the North prepare for the Storm. If Dany lets them down they still have hope in Stannis and Jon.

Therefore the Braavosi really have their feet in everywhere

This times a thousand; the Braavosi are conflicted about Dany, have many different motives for either supporting her or killing her, all depending on her character; her dragons and her claim are essential for uniting Westeros (read: getting the debt repaid) and she's been freeing slaves and generally causing Braavos' enemies/rivals (i.e. the other, slave dealing "Free" cities) to shit themselves and tighten the chains around their slaves, but also has dragons, which could easily outlive her, get stolen/broken, or be misused if/when the power/madness goes to her head. Just like Barristan said- "madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin: when a Targaryen is born, the world holds its breath and waits to see where it falls" to explain why he was skulking around as Arstan for a while; amplify the Mad King's bodyguard's bitter memories times a thousand and add the threat of Other annihilation to get an understanding of Braavos' reluctance to commit fully to any one cause.

yes, they are definitely hedging their bets, for any and all possibilities; everything from a heroic Dany with zombie killing dragons (and Arya as another rider and "contingency" if they feel the need for a Dance with Dragons civil war?) to a batshit crazy despot who needs to be put down before she ever gets to Westeros, even if that means fighting the Others the old fashioned way...

Also, Braavos is obviously a Republic of Venice analogue; unlike, say, Florence, Venice managed to keep any of the families from gaining absolute control, eventually becoming an Oligarchy (moving away from the common assembly and Chief of State Doge, placing power solely with the Senate), but the presence of the Faceless Men might unbalance that somewhat, if they ever got involved in local affairs.

Speaking of which, the main reason why I don't give much credence to the "Jaquen killed someone he wasn't supposed to, thus he's a rogue!" theory is because, frankly, he's more important, more responsible, and is tasked with infiltrating the citadel to get a dragon killing book and prevent a global catastrophe. Is the KoM giving Arya the entry-level rules, or the top tier "decide what's best, you're capable of deciding as the situation demands" mentality? arya is an acolyte with a streak of defiance, also remaining within the city, under close supervision, and with easy access to HQ if a situation arises; Jaquen is top tier, has the right to recruit (those coins probably aren't given to low level agents, at least not on a whim) and is spending months in Westeros on a top-secret, super important snooping mission with world-wide ramifications.

He's a big boy, she's a N00b.

I read his sadness as being "It's the boy or the world" reluctance; even if senior FM (who would go so far afield; Jaquen is definitely a major member to be trusted with such a task) follow the same, absolute "thou shall not kill, unless the God says so" rule, the FM might have decided that, given the severity of the Other invasion/heresy, breaking the rules might be necessary for the good of the world.

[Frey Pie]

Frey Pie ..I like your thoughts here, except I still can't see Daario as Jaqen. ( If it comes down to points of similarity in their descriptions , there are more coinciding points between J & A than J & D ).. But the behavior of Daario argues against it as well, for me .Sure, his urging violence to Dany may be to test her...maybe ( but it might prove a dangerous test ). Besides , Daario makes himself a target from the start..people around Dany either hate him ( for various reasons ) or simply don't trust him, or disapprove of him , or some combination thereof. The Meereenese certainly hate him. I would think an FM would want to keep a bit of a lower profile , in the interests of living to complete his / her mission.

Yes ,I think it would be desirable to someone in Braavos to have an agent around Dany, and perhaps, at some point send an envoy to her , once they have her figured out. Daario could be their agent , I suppose.. but by his brash behavior, he seems more likely to be someone else's.. or perhaps to have some personal agenda , like the Tattered Prince.

But if he is Braavos' guy, I don't think he's Jaqen. the Alchemist seems much more plausible.. more consistent with Jaqen's behavior.

ETA : We haven't met a Sealord yet ,but we see from the story that Syrio tells Arya , that what won Syrio his position was his perception ( also extremely important to the FM and the IB )...We have met a few FM ( most only briefly ) and the Kindly Man..and we've met an envoy of the Iron Bank..they all appear thoughtful, and business like , above all.

Bran Vras is the man to talk to over the Jaqen/Daario theory. His researching skills are extremely meticulous so any theory he comes up with deserves thought.

Into this mix are the Dornish as well. The Sealord and Doran are buds from a few years ago so....and Sarella in the Citadel also

[jarl the climber]

Even then, Tycho must have excellent leeway in his decision making. I agree that securing his passage to Stannis must have cost something, and his superiors would understand that, but to then go the extra mile and essentially bail out Jon's NW - presumably on some kind of precondition that Stannis gains the throne - is still very risky. Unless, there is an overriding concern (the Others).

Its hard to really say without knowing what him and Jon agreed to, the Gift covers an area of roughly of about 45,000 square miles so the Watch does have a lot real estate that it can mortgage.

[Gogossos]

Speaking of which, the main reason why I don't give much credence to the "Jaquen killed someone he wasn't supposed to, thus he's a rogue!" theory is because, frankly, he's more important, more responsible, and is tasked with infiltrating the citadel to get a dragon killing book and prevent a global catastrophe. Is the KoM giving Arya the entry-level rules, or the top tier "decide what's best, you're capable of deciding as the situation demands" mentality? arya is an acolyte with a streak of defiance, also remaining within the city, under close supervision, and with easy access to HQ if a situation arises; Jaquen is top tier, has the right to recruit (those coins probably aren't given to low level agents, at least not on a whim) and is spending months in Westeros on a top-secret, super important snooping mission with world-wide ramifications.

Instead of projecting forward, I'll try projecting backwards. What was Jaqen doing in KL when he was captured? It must have been serious but deemed not serious enough by the Lannisters, at least not Ned-level. Meaning, they probably didnt see any direct threat to Joff. However, it was serious enough to be sent to the Wall. I've seen speculation that Jaqen was Syrio beforehand but I don't buy it. Whatever Jaqen did it led him to the Citadel afterwards (Arya and Harrenhall was just a diversion). However, Arya's trick of attempting to make Jaqen kill himself must have alerted him to her skills and I believe that coin he he gave her also meant Arya was treated as a special case by the KoM in Braavos. She was not just an entry level trainee, she is a protege of one of their top agents and a lady of Winterfell to boot.

That's why I think Arya is not getting typical training: she is progressing quicker and has more leeway (in addition to her own talents). They have a strategic placement for her, clearly they can see she is not "no one" yet and won't give up her Stark name but they tolerate it and progress her up the schedule. I believe it's because they need her for either Dany or more likely Jon who I believe Braavos has taken more than a keen interest in.

[Elaena Targaryen]

I don't have anything to add yet but I wanted to say I love where you guys are going and this latest page of the thread has is a very interesting read!

[bemused]

Frey Pie..Yes, well ... I wouldn't have brought up Daario , except you mentioned him , as one possible FM agent around Dany. Of the 2 options you named, I like Missandei better ,if only because she'd be less likely to be considered an adversary by other interests, and be able to just focus on the job at hand , instead of worrying about who might be out to get her.

I don't think an FM would invite complications , such as a flaming love affair ( though unforseen complications can arise on any job )....But the affair didn't just befall Daario, he tried to engineer it from the outset. ( Maybe he's an agent of ... Lys ? ;) )

There could be yet other options that I might eventually like even better, we'll see ...maybe even a series of FMs , or one FM with a series of disguises .. staying with her as she travels from place to place... George has fed us everything we know ( or can guess at )..he just hasn't told us everything HE knows.

About the the Sealord..do we know that this is the same one who witnessed Doran and Derry's agreement ?..Whether he was ,or not , the Sealord is dying.

On a side note , wa-a-a-y upthread you mentioned Jaqen paying the 3 lives, and asked why would he pay for Rorge and Biter ,if they weren't his. The obvious answer ,to me, is that he wouldn't .. and I don't think he cared about R and B at all. Arya was the one who took 3 lives the fire god had in his grasp. He only cared that it was Arya's debt, and he , personally, felt moved to help her pay it.

( I had a great walk with the Dire-ShihTzus, thanks. :))

Bran Vras.. I can find no reference saying no other religion is allowed in that area . As far as I understood , all temples were located in the same area or precinct ( an island ,I believe ). And isn't The House of Black and White synonymous with the Temple of Him of Many Faces ( multiple religions being honoured within their very walls)? Arya makes note of a number of temples on her way to her mission. If she had gone in another direction there may have been some other temple(s) in close proximity to THoB&W.

Whether theirs is strictly a very closed religion or an organization that follows a specific religious ethic, we know that the FM act in the IB's interest on occasion, and I can't imagine the same courtesy would not be extended to the Sealord , if necessary. And I don't think the FM would act against the interests of Braavos either in the economic or political spheres.

I must have said this before , but ... if someone came to the FM asking for the death of some ruler or political figure that the IB was satisfied with, or who was on friendly terms with the Sealord , I somehow feel the fee asked would be beyond what the seeker would or could pay.

I definitely think they have a political arm.

Gogossos..If Jaqen's path from KL led to the Citadel, and Arya was just a diversion..that's quite a diversion . But not as great as the diversion all the way to the Wall would have been. ;)

Someone mentioned Marwyn, and I'm really curious to see what happens in Oldtown. All the magic users we've met so far, have some area of fallibility ,or limitation. I'm not sure .. yet .. that Marwyn can see through Pate's glamour.

[Frey Pie]

Frey Pie..Yes, well ... I wouldn't have brought up Daario , except you mentioned him , as one possible FM agent around Dany. Of the 2 options you named, I like Missandei better ,if only because she'd be less likely to be considered an adversary by other interests, and be able to just focus on the job at hand , instead of worrying about who might be out to get her.

I don't think an FM would invite complications , such as a flaming love affair ( though unforseen complications can arise on any job )....But the affair didn't just befall Daario, he tried to engineer it from the outset. ( Maybe he's an agent of ... Lys ? ;) )

There could be yet other options that I might eventually like even better, we'll see ...maybe even a series of FMs , or one FM with a series of disguises .. staying with her as she travels from place to place... George has fed us everything we know ( or can guess at )..he just hasn't told us everything HE knows.

About the the Sealord..do we know that this is the same one who witnessed Doran and Derry's agreement ?..Whether he was ,or not , the Sealord is dying.

On a side note , wa-a-a-y upthread you mentioned Jaqen paying the 3 lives, and asked why would he pay for Rorge and Biter ,if they weren't his. The obvious answer ,to me, is that he wouldn't .. and I don't think he cared about R and B at all. Arya was the one who took 3 lives the fire god had in his grasp. He only cared that it was Arya's debt, and he , personally, felt moved to help her pay it.

( I had a great walk with the Dire-ShihTzus, thanks. :)

Then agian Biter and Rorge do commit treason helping Jaqen help Arya. They dont seem like the type to say well o owe you my life m'lady, so my honour, virtue and life are yours.

Na nothing to suggest that but it would be bonkers for the next Sealord not to know the life and promises of his predecessor

Waaay to late in the game for Lys to get a look in i hope. To me Daarios what he seems to be or else Dany temptress.

Anyone know if George likes James Bond? Theres some resemblance between him and Daario. Both secret agents of famous organistaions that have great power in their respective countries, Daario may have a license to kill as wev heard of him killing the whole time but this seems to be a nono and finally he gets the ladies. Even the way he gets them is kind of reminiscent of James. Sorry by the way i really like James Bond and Daarios one of my least favourite characters just thought id say the comparison