Varys and Littlefinger. Possible alliance?

[chris999]

Are Varys and Littlefinger working together to put Littlefinger on the throne? I think that this would make sense if Varys really "wants what is best for the realm", considering that LF is good with economics, and also isnt highborn like the other contenders for the throne are.

It seems like Varys will just about support anybody that will challenge whoever is sitting on the throne.

-Did Varys have anything to do with Robert's Rebellion to help get Aerys off the throne?(speculative)

-Then Varys supports Viserys and Dany behind Robert's back, and possibly had something to do with Robert's death. (he seemed to know immediately that Robert's wine had been poisoned)

-Then after Viserys dies, he totally forgets about Dany, and tries to support "Aegon VI" (if Aegon is a Blackfyre, Varys would be the first to know, meaning that he isnt a Targaryan supporter afterall)

-He then weakens Lannister power by killing Kevan.

I know some of this info is speculative, but I think that it makes perfect sense that he may be getting all of Littlefinger's potential enemies to fight each other, while Littlefinger's forces remain untouched by war in the Vale. We all know that Varys and LF are both sneaky and manipulative. Do they share a common goal? The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[The guy from the Vale]

Varys' game has become much clearer with aDwD. No, I don't think he cooperates with Littlefinger. They might be in some kind of mutually assured destruction relationship though, where either working against the otehr would mean that his own game would go down, too.

[Fat Mac]

I doubt the two are working together. They seem to want different things. Its starting to look like Varys is a Targaryen/Blackfyre sympathizer, while all thats known of Littlefingers intentions are seeing Sansa get Winterfell.

[chris999]

I doubt the two are working together. They seem to want different things. Its starting to look like Varys is a Targaryen/Blackfyre sympathizer

I dont think that it is possible to be a Targaryan and a Blackfyre supporter at the same time. If Aegon turns out to be a Blackfyre, then that means that Varys was never a supporter of the Targaryans to begin with... unless it is in his best interests at that time.

while all thats known of Littlefingers intentions are seeing Sansa get Winterfell.

I think that Littlefinger wants the Iron Throne. I recall the conversation in AGOT when Varys and Littlefinger ask each other about how they see themselves on the throne. Winning the Vale and the North are just part of those plans.

[Purah]

Haven't got my book on me so can't directly quote it, but in AGOK, Varys confesses to Eddard when he's in the Black Cells that he would never work with Littlefinger. They have completely different agendas, different principals -- Varys seems to be working for the good of the realm, Littlefinger wants what's good for Littlefinger. And can you even begin how they would be together!? They'd probably be best friends who are always rotten to each other. Might make for a good sitcom spin-off :lol:

[Fat Mac]

I dont think that it is possible to be a Targaryan and a Blackfyre supporter at the same time. If Aegon turns out to be a Blackfyre, then that means that Varys was never a supporter of the Targaryans to begin with... unless it is in his best interests at that time.

I simply meant he supports one, I'm just not sure which.

I think that Littlefinger wants the Iron Throne. I recall the conversation in AGOT when Varys and Littlefinger ask each other about how they see themselves on the throne. Winning the Vale and the North are just part of those plans.

This makes sense. He wants glory, unlike Varys it seems.

[N. Baratheon]

Going a little crackpot here, but I think it's possible that they are opponents in the "game" that Littlefinger describes.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Varys' game has become much clearer with aDwD. No, I don't think he cooperates with Littlefinger. They might be in some kind of mutually assured destruction relationship though, where either working against the otehr would mean that his own game would go down, too.

Seriously?

‘Good morrow to you, Auntie. I am your nephew, Aegon, returned from the dead. I’ve been hiding on a poleboat all my life, but now I’ve washed the blue dye from my hair and I’d like a dragon, please … and oh, did I mention, my claim to the Iron Throne is stronger than your own?’ ”

:lmao:

That is right up there with:

“I am a prince of Dorne,” said Quentyn. “I had a duty to my father and my people. There was a secret marriage pact.”

“So I heard. And when the silver queen saw your scrap of parchment she fell into your arms, yes?”

“No,” said Pretty Meris.

“No? Oh, I recall. Your bride flew off on a dragon. Well, when she returns, do be sure to invite us to your nuptials. The men of the company would love to drink to your happiness, and I do love a Westerosi wedding. The bedding part especially, only … oh, wait …” He turned to Denzo D’han. “Denzo, I thought you told me that the dragon queen had married some Ghiscari.”

“A Meereenese nobleman. Rich.”

The Tattered Prince turned back to Quentyn. “Could that be true? Surely not. What of your marriage pact?”

[IronSuitor]

put Littlefinger on the throne

Littlefinger wouldn't want the throne even if the Lords of Westeros and Varys would have him. A king is a target. Littlefinger is successful because his play is never obvious and he always seems to be coming from a position of weakness.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

I'm shipping them. When it's all said and done, Varys will lower the crossbow that was aimed at Sansa, Baelish will lower his dagger from the Eunuch's throat, and they will walk off into the sunset, hand-in-glove.

And Littlefinger gets to be the...bigger man...

[chris999]

Littlefinger wouldn't want the throne even if the Lords of Westeros and Varys would have him. A king is a target. Littlefinger is successful because his play is never obvious and he always seems to be coming from a position of weakness.

I dont agree. I think that Littefinger wants the Iron Throne more than anything. He is nothing if not ambitious. Why would he even risk his life to rule the Vale if we wasnt power hungry? Almost every move he has made was because he couldnt inherit power, he had to claim it himself.

I do agree that maybe he would be smarter to rule as Lord Protector, with Robin on the Throne, but even that would make him a target.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Haven't got my book on me so can't directly quote it, but in AGOK, Varys confesses to Eddard when he's in the Black Cells that he would never work with Littlefinger. They have completely different agendas, different principals -- Varys seems to be working for the good of the realm, Littlefinger wants what's good for Littlefinger. And can you even begin how they would be together!? They'd probably be best friends who are always rotten to each other. Might make for a good sitcom spin-off :lol:

FOR THE GOOD OF THE REALM: :lmao:

"The eunuch stood. “And your daughter’s life, my lord? How precious is that?”

A chill pierced Ned’s heart. “My daughter

“Surely you did not think I’d forgotten about your sweet innocent, my lord? The queen most certainly has not.”

“No, “ Ned pleaded, his voice cracking. “Varys, gods have mercy, do as you like with me, but leave my daughter out of your schemes. Sansa’s no more than a child.”

“Rhaenys was a child too. Prince Rhaegar’s daughter. A precious little thing, younger than your girls. She had a small black kitten she called Balerion, did you know? I always wondered what happened to him. Rhaenys liked to pretend he was the true Balerion, the Black Dread of old, but I imagine the Lannisters taught her the difference between a kitten and a dragon quick enough, the day they broke down her door.” Varys gave a long weary sigh, the sigh of a man who carried all the sadness of the world in a sack upon his shoulders. “The High Septon once told me that as we sin, so do we suffer. If that’s true, Lord Eddard, tell me... why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones? Ponder it, if you would, while you wait upon the queen. And spare a thought for this as well: The next visitor who calls on you could bring you bread and cheese and the milk of the poppy for your pain... or he could bring you Sansa’s head."

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!! :crying:

“You are more than a juggler, old friend. You are a true sorcerer. All I ask is that you work your magic awhile longer.” They started down the hall in the direction Arya had come, past the room with the monsters.

“What I can do, I will,” the one with the torch said softly. “I must have gold, and another fifty birds.”

She let them get a long way ahead, then went creeping after them. Quiet as a shadow.

“So many?” The voices were fainter as the light dwindled ahead of her. “The ones you need are hard to find... so young, to know their letters... perhaps older... not die so easy...”

“No. The younger are safer... treat them gently if they kept their tongues the risk...”

:uhoh:

“Perhaps you should be the fool instead of me. Trust no one, my prince. Not your chainless maester, not your false father, not the gallant Duck nor the lovely Lemore nor these other fine friends who grew you from a bean.

Above all, trust not the cheesemonger, nor the Spider,

nor this little dragon queen you mean to marry. All that mistrust will sour your stomach and keep you awake by night, ’tis true, but better that than the long sleep that does not end.” The dwarf pushed his black dragon across a range of mountains. “But what do I know? Your false father is a great lord, and I am just some twisted little monkey man. Still, I’d do things differently.”

[CrypticWeirwood]

I don’t think that it is possible to be a Targaryan and a Blackfyre supporter at the same time. If Aegon turns out to be a Blackfyre, then that means that Varys was never a supporter of the Targaryans to begin with... unless it is in his best interests at that time.

Remember that the Blackfyre supporters believe themselves the true Targaryens, the legitimate heirs to Aegon the Conqueror.

This is based on the sword itself, but also the notion that Daeron II Targaryen was actually not a child of Aegon IV, but rather of his two siblings, one of whom was his sister-queen Naerys and the other Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, and that Daemon I Blackfyre was the child of Aegon IV by their cousin Daena the former queen. Both unbrothers were certainly 100% royal.

Notice how in that scenario, even if they are not half-brothers, the brotherly unbrothers Daemon and Daeron are still more related than the full-blooded children of unrelated parents. There’s way plenty Targaryen to go around here. And around and around and around.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Littlefinger wouldn't want the throne even if the Lords of Westeros and Varys would have him. A king is a target. Littlefinger is successful because his play is never obvious and he always seems to be coming from a position of weakness.

He does. They will.

That's always the case when you gain a position of power and aren't a member of the oligarchy. Napoleon, came out of now where. Aegon the conqueror, came out of no where. Barack Obama, came out of no where. Steve Job and Steve Wozniak... came out of no where. Bill Hewlett and David Packard, came out of no where.

Obviously, if you're increasing your share of power from a non-traditional power base the establishment is going to be unaware of you. And the longer you can keep it that way, the better off you are. But by excepting the Lord Paramouncy of the Trident and Lord Protectorship of the Vale, he declared himself as a target already.

[IronSuitor]

I dont agree. I think that Littefinger wants the Iron Throne more than anything. He is nothing if not ambitious. Why would he even risk his life to rule the Vale if we wasnt power hungry? Almost every move he has made was because he couldnt inherit power, he had to claim it himself.

I do agree that maybe he would be smarter to rule as Lord Protector, with Robin on the Throne, but even that would make him a target.

The Tyrells are currently the most powerful family in Westeros, but a Lannister sits on the Iron Throne. A chair is a chair, power is power. (teehee)

[chris999]

The Tyrells are currently the most powerful family in Westeros, but a Lannister sits on the Iron Throne. A chair is a chair, power is power. (teehee)

I am actually starting to think that Littlefinger may actually be the most powerful lord in Westerous right now. Remember,GRRM even goes out of his way to state more than once that "the forces of the Vale have been untouched by the War of the Five Kings". It is almost as if to remind us that hey, the Vale still has all of it's army.

Sure, he doesnt have the Lannister or Tyrell gold, but he does have a strong army that is ready to fight.

[chris999]

The whole reason Cersei wanted Littlefinger to marry Lysa was for the army.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

The Tyrells are currently the most powerful family in Westeros, but a Lannister sits on the Iron Throne. A chair is a chair, power is power. (teehee)

I could've sworn the Baratheon's were on the Throne.

[chris999]

I just stole this quote from another thread because it kind of lends support to my theory.

From ADWD

“The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver’s Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well."

I think that this paragraph supports my thoughts that Varys doesnt care about any of the Targaryans/Blackfires. He only cares about the armies that they possess.

That kinda makes me think that he doesnt want them to rule, he just wants to use their armies to take out his enemies at home in Westeros. If this is true, then maybe he wants the Targs and Lannisters to fight, so that it will be easier for LF's forces to march to King's Landing.

[ZacharyB]

I could've sworn the Baratheon's were on the Throne.

Just shows you how much of a chair the Iron Throne really is. ;)