Varys and Littlefinger. Possible alliance?

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

The whole reason Cersei wanted Littlefinger to marry Lysa was for the army.

Nah: The Riverlands are a desolation.

YTD:

1)Lady Olena

2)Euron Greyjoy

3)Cersei Lannister

4)Randall Tarly

5-6)Petyr Baelish, Doran Martell

7) Walder Frey

8) Roose Bolton

9)Young Griff

10)Stannis

They both have large forces, that are unblooded. Their ability to project power is unknown. If the Riverlands were contributing something Petyr would be higher. But right now he only has the knight's of the Vale, and not an entirely united Vale, yet. The Vale forces are better armed and armored but Petyr's power base is less consolidated.

Still...

"... not bad for a City College boy.

Bought my way into this club

and now every one of these ivy

league schmucks is sucking my

kneecaps...I just got on the Board

of the Zoological Society, cost me

a million; that's the thing with

WASPS -- they like animals but they

can't stand people."

[Tumnas the Torpid]

FOR THE GOOD OF THE REALM: :lmao:

Yes! The fact that Varys says (or even thinks) he is working for the good of the realm does not make it so. To sit his own dragon, be it red, black, or polka-dotted, on the Iron Throne would be the only way the universally-reviled Spider could become the power behind the throne. This is a major ulterior motive that should not be ignored when considering Varys.

[CrypticWeirwood]

One can but wonder, and wonder deeply, just what the old Master of Whisperers thinks of the new one’s machinations.

[IronSuitor]

I could've sworn the Baratheon's were on the Throne.

You must have missed Stannis' letter.

Napoleon and Aegon were symbols in and of themselves. They didn't need the legitimacy of a throne, they made their own. Not saying that Littlefinger can't do it, but the symbol of the Iron throne is broken. Unless his plan is to just have his turn on the throne until someone else tries and have a go, he'll have to do a lot more than scheme. He'll have to re-forge it as a symbol of legitimacy.

I think that this paragraph supports my thoughts that Varys doesnt care about any of the Targaryans/Blackfires. He only cares about the armies that they possess.

So his monologue to a dying Kevan Lannister was just method acting?

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Yes! The fact that Varys says (or even thinks) he is working for the good of the realm does not make it so. To sit his own dragon, be it red, black, or polka-dotted, on the Iron Throne would be the only way the universally-reviled Spider could become the power behind the throne. This is a major ulterior motive that should not be ignored when considering Varys.

well if you look at those two.err..three quotes. Varys might say he cares about the innocent but he's burning through "little birds" faster than Hugh Hefner goes through bimbos. This isn't the 21st century he's killing 50 young literate children a pop, to keep his spy network going. How many literate children are there in kings landing? a couple hundred? How is that protecting the innocent for the good of the realm.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

One can but wonder, and wonder deeply, just what the old Master of Whisperers thinks of the new one’s machinations.

This is especially interesting when one considers a)Varys's statements to Tyrion regarding magic, and b)the fact that we have no reason to think the eunuch is aware of creeping supernaturalization of Westeros. If discovering the truth about Ser Robert Strong leads to a greater understanding of other shit going down (Dondarrion/Stoneheart, the Wall), does this change Varys's priorities?

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

You must have missed Stannis' letter.

Napoleon and Aegon were symbols in and of themselves. They didn't need the legitimacy of a throne, they made their own. Not saying that Littlefinger can't do it, but the symbol of the Iron throne is broken. Unless his plan is to just have his turn on the throne until someone else tries and have a go, he'll have to do a lot more than scheme. He'll have to re-forge it as a symbol of legitimacy.

So his monologue to a dying Kevan Lannister was just method acting?

I mean I guess. He just needs to be good at pitting lords against one another. A skill he's already demonstrated in the Vale. He's just gotta let the lords wet their beaks.

[chris999]

So his monologue to a dying Kevan Lannister was just method acting?

I just read it to make sure, and you are right, he talks about Aegon...

But why bother with the whole charade af supporting Viserys and Dany for so long? I guess they were just meant to do all of the fighting, and then say, here you go Aegon, here is your throne that my entire army died for... doesnt make sense to me.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

well if you look at those two.err..three quotes. Varys might say he cares about the innocent but he's burning through "little birds" faster than Hugh Hefner goes through bimbos. This isn't the 21st century he's killing 50 young literate children a pop, to keep his spy network going. How many literate children are there in kings landing? a couple hundred? How is that protecting the innocent for the good of the realm.

Well, if Varys is convinced that his aims are indistinguishable from the 'good of the realm', it may be an ends/means calculation for him.

Nevertheless, I agree with you, and the monologue Varys delivers to a dying Kevan Lannister is, to me, final proof of his self-interest - because of the raven in the room. If winter has come, sewing more slaughter can no longer be thought of as in the realm's ultimate best interest; if there is no one left to rule over, the Iron Throne is irrelevant.

[James Arryn]

I just read it to make sure, and you are right, he talks about Aegon...

But why bother with the whole charade af supporting Viserys and Dany for so long? I guess they were just meant to do all of the fighting, and then say, here you go Aegon, here is your throne that my entire army died for... doesnt make sense to me.

They were the MacGuffin.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

This is especially interesting when one considers a)Varys's statements to Tyrion regarding magic, and b)the fact that we have no reason to think the eunuch is aware of creeping supernaturalization of Westeros. If discovering the truth about Ser Robert Strong leads to a greater understanding of other shit going down (Dondarrion/Stoneheart, the Wall), does this change Varys's priorities?

no... he is.

He did not wait for her reply, but turned at once to Varys. “You have reports?”

The eunuch drew a parchment from his sleeve. “A kraken has been seen off the Fingers.” He giggled. “Not a Greyjoy, mind you, a true kraken. It attacked an Ibbenese whaler and pulled it under. There is fighting on the Stepstones, and a new war between Tyrosh and Lys seems likely. Both hope to win Myr as ally. Sailors back from the jade Sea report that a three-headed dragon has hatched in Qarth, and is the wonder of that city -”

“Dragons and krakens do not interest me, regardless of the number of their heads,” said Lord Tywin. “Have your whisperers perchance found some trace of my brother’s son?”

“Alas, our beloved Tyrek has quite vanished, the poor brave lad.” Varys sounded close to tears.

“Tywin,” Ser Kevan said, before Lord Tywin could vent his obvious displeasure, “some of the gold cloaks who deserted during the battle have drifted back to barracks, thinking to take up duty once again. Ser Addam wishes to know what to do with them.”

“They might have endangered Joff with their cowardice,” Cersei said at once. “I want them put to death.”

Varys sighed. “They have surely earned death, Your Grace, none can deny it. And yet, perhaps we might be wiser to send them to the Night’s Watch. We have had disturbing messages from the Wall of late. Of wildlings astir...”

“Wildlings, krakens, and dragons.” Mace Tyrell chuckled. “Why, is there anyone not stirring?”

In Kingslanding that's known as a reverse grumkin

“I grow ever more admiring of you, my lord,” confessed the eunuch. “You appease the Stark boy with his father’s bones and strip your sister of her protectors in one swift stroke. You give that black brother the men he seeks, rid the city of some hungry mouths, yet make it all seem mockery so none may say that the dwarf fears snarks and grumkins. Oh, deftly done.”

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Well, if Varys is convinced that his aims are indistinguishable from the 'good of the realm', it may be an ends/means calculation for him.

Nevertheless, I agree with you, and the monologue Varys delivers to a dying Kevan Lannister is, to me, final proof of his self-interest - because of the raven in the room. If winter has come, sewing more slaughter can no longer be thought of as in the realm's ultimate best interest; if there is no one left to rule over, the Iron Throne is irrelevant.

yeah but he is allegation against Ned, as to why the innocent children always get hurt when the high lords play their game of thrones is laid bare.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Nevertheless, I agree with you, and the monologue Varys delivers to a dying Kevan Lannister is, to me, final proof of his self-interest — because of the raven in the room. If winter is come, sowing more slaughter can no longer be thought of as in the realm's ultimate best interest; if there is no one left to rule over, the Iron Throne is irrelevant.

Everyone missed it: Varys is actually talking for the benefit of Lord Brynden, that sorcerous defender of the realm in perpetuity, who was of course listening in on Varys’s monologue via his ravennet connection.

Remember you heard it here first.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Everyone missed it: Varys is actually talking for the benefit of Lord Brynden, that sorcerous defender of the realm in perpetuity, who was of course listening in on Varys’s monologue via his ravennet connection.

Remember you heard it here first.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Bloodraven is in the crossbow.

“Your little one is with the gods now,” the woods witch told his mother, as she wept. “He’ll never hurt again, never hunger, never cry. The gods have taken him down into the earth, into the trees. The gods are all around us, in the rocks and streams, in the birds and beasts. Your Bump has gone to join them.

He’ll be the world and

all

that’s in it.”

[CrypticWeirwood]

This is especially interesting when one considers a)Varys's statements to Tyrion regarding magic, and b)the fact that we have no reason to think the eunuch is aware of creeping supernaturalization of Westeros. If discovering the truth about Ser Robert Strong leads to a greater understanding of other shit going down (Dondarrion/Stoneheart, the Wall), does this change Varys's priorities?

Actually, I was thinking of Bloodraven as the old Master of Whisperers and wondering what Lord Brynden thinks of Varys’s machinations vis-à-vis the good of the realm, but you bring up a good point that Varys probably isn’t too happy with Qyburn’s sorceries, either.

Gosh, sorcerors on either side of him; what’s poor Varys to do?

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

You must have missed Stannis' letter.

Napoleon and Aegon were symbols in and of themselves. They didn't need the legitimacy of a throne, they made their own. Not saying that Littlefinger can't do it, but the symbol of the Iron throne is broken. Unless his plan is to just have his turn on the throne until someone else tries and have a go, he'll have to do a lot more than scheme. He'll have to re-forge it as a symbol of legitimacy.

So his monologue to a dying Kevan Lannister was just method acting?

No. I caught it. My point was, power is proximity to the throne, among other things. The Lannisters are not on the throne. And yet, they are. Should Tommen die, Mycella would gain the throne. And Lord Puffish would be SOL.

[DornishKnight]

Vary and LF can't be working against each other or LF would be SO dead. They are either working together or (more likely) in parallel.

[Ashen Shugar]

Although I don't agree with the theories of why(or have any of my own), I have been suspicious of Varys and LF working together for awhile now.

For one, why the hell hasn't Varys killed LF yet? He saw that Kevan Lannister was a potential threat to his plans and got rid of him real quick, and people are gonna be asking more questions about that than they would of little finger disapearing or turning up dead.

However what first made me curious is that whenever Varys is in a convo with someone and LF is mentioned Varys down plays it and say's something along the lines of "Don't worry about him, just leave him to me" and LF does the same whenever Varys is mentioned around him.. yet neither one ever seems to lift a finger against the other.

There could be several reasons for this and one of them is definitely that they may be working together.

Remember what LF says to Sansa about the act they are putting on? Always keep the act going even if you think no one is around. That bit of advice may also explain Varys' last talk with Kevan.

Though now that I think about it, it also could explain why Varys sees him as a threat not worth dealing with. He is not a wizard who knows what people are thinking, he simply relies on people letting their guards down when they think they are not being watched or listened to, while his little birds sneek through the walls spying for him. If LF is always playing his role even when he believes he is safe then Varys would have no dirt on him.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Vary and LF can't be working against each other or LF would be SO dead. They are either working together or (more likely) in parallel.

oh please. Varys is yet to accomplish anything. If he weren't so predictably ...er... impotent... there would have been a faceless man wearing around is body like a Halloween costume years ago.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Vary and LF can't be working against each other or LF would be SO dead.

This.