[BOOK/TV SPOILERS] TWOP n00bs Thread II

[BlackTalon]

I had forgotten Jaime's siege, i was thinking of the later siege ...

Hmm, I had assumed that it was pretty obvious that the siege was lifted by Robb Stark when he captured jaime and destroyed his forces in the Whispering Wood. However, I clearly see how that would not be clear to show only people ... I hope I was wrong.

[iheartseverus]

We did see some peasants come to Ned (as Hand) to complain of Gregor raping, pillaging, burning farms, etc. They brought a bag of dead fish that Gregor had left as a symbol. Ned then ordered the death of Gregor and ordered Tywin to the capitol to answer charges. None of that worked out or came to pass, of course, but we saw it all on screen.

[Arkash]

That is entirely possible. It's also possible that the Mad King was in fact completely sane and the whole rebellion only started because of an unfortunate case of spontaneous combustion of Starks. The show is not providing much evidence for either theories as far as I can see.

I like the idea... ^^

[iheartseverus]

Not from the TWoP thread, but an Unsullied comment, nonetheless. This from the WiC non-book reader Episode critic. :)

Oz of Thrones: So I understand through various internet message boards, as well as the awesome commenters here at WiC, that our cause (the non-book reader) has been deemed 'The Unsullied' I think I am fine with that, as long as I get to keep my manhood and you don't touch my nipples.

[Independent George]

Hmm, I had assumed that it was pretty obvious that the siege was lifted by Robb Stark when he captured jaime and destroyed his forces in the Whispering Wood. However, I clearly see how that would not be clear to show only people ... I hope I was wrong.

Except Jaime was captured at the end of S1, but the Riverlords don't appear at all in S2 despite Cat's presence with the army ("Hey dude, thanks for lifting the siege which was starving us. Hi daughter of our Lord Paramount."). That actually kind of implies that Jaime was captured in a raid and the siege was never broken.

Refresh my memory--what bathtub scene?

Jaime and Brienne at Harrenhall. Jaime describes quite a bit of the rebellion - the Trident, Dancing Griffins and the Battle of the Bells, Pycelle convincing Aerys to open the gates for Tywin, Rhaella and Viserys being packed off the Dragonstone, Elia as a hostage to the Martells... If they leave the entire monologue, it's a huge infodump.

[iheartseverus]

Jaime and Brienne at Harrenhall. Jaime describes quite a bit of the rebellion - the Trident, Dancing Griffins and the Battle of the Bells, Pycelle convincing Aerys to open the gates for Tywin, Rhaella and Viserys being packed off the Dragonstone, Elia as a hostage to the Martells... If they leave the entire monologue, it's a huge infodump.

YAY, thanks. Come on, D&D, do it!!!

PS: You said 'we know' the bathtub scene is in. Do we know that? How do we know it?

[Arkash]

Because we get a glimpse of Jaime in a bathtub in one of the promos.

I really really hope they dont change the monologue much !

[sagaz]

Re: the Rhaegar/Lyanna/Jon Snow theory, I mostly think it holds water for me because his mother has to be SOMEONE significant or we would not have been kept in the dark about it for over 2 years...

#TwoYears :lmao:

[Guest]

2. But then this person recalls a line from S1 which flat contradicts it:

Damn you showrunners!!!

What was that line? I dont remember it. If so, incredibly stupid on their part.

[Independent George]

Cate

What was that line? I dont remember it. If so, incredibly stupid on their part.

Catelyn to Ned in S1, something along the lines of "Your father and brother rode to the capital once, on a King's demand."

It's half right - Rickard went south on Aerys' demand - but Brandon went off on his own accord.

[ebevan91]

I'm reading that thread and I just realized how bad the show has handled the whole Robert's Rebellion thing.

They're wondering whose children Aemon was talking about to Jon and they don't know who killed them either.

[iheartseverus]

I'm reading that thread and I just realized how bad the show has handled the whole Robert's Rebellion thing.

They're wondering whose children Aemon was talking about to Jon and they don't know who killed them either.

If, as Independent George points out, the show stays true to the infodump during the Jaime/Brienne bath scene, much of the confusion should be cleared up nicely. This...

Jaime and Brienne at Harrenhall. Jaime describes quite a bit of the rebellion - the Trident, Dancing Griffins and the Battle of the Bells, Pycelle convincing Aerys to open the gates for Tywin, Rhaella and Viserys being packed off the Dragonstone, Elia as a hostage to the Martells... If they leave the entire monologue, it's a huge infodump

[iheartseverus]

If, as Independent George points out, the show stays true to the infodump during the Jaime/Brienne bath scene, much of the confusion should be cleared up nicely. This...

ETA: I'm actually learning stuff, having new ideas about GRRM's works, just from reading the Unsullied thread. They've figured out that's a Harpy on the building in Astapor, then mentioned that elemental magic calls for earth, wind, water and fire. Then, see that we've got water (ice) and fire (dragons) represented. I just looked up the Harpy myth and she's the mother of Achilles horses (?) sired by the West Wind. So, we've got fire, water and wind. That leaves just 'earth.' I remember from the books that Valyria was destroyed by some gigantic upheaval, I had assumed a volcano eruption--but perhaps, an earthquake? Interesting stuff..

[Independent George]

ooooh. I'm going to spitball here and say the East and West will bring forth magical unicorns and the Locness Monster.

I know it's a joke, but he's also half-right! There are unicorns on Skaagos, and reports of Krakens in the sea.

[sagaz]

I'm reading that thread and I just realized how bad the show has handled the whole Robert's Rebellion thing.

They're wondering whose children Aemon was talking about to Jon and they don't know who killed them either.

I don't think the show handed Rr bad, directly didn't handled it...In fact the Unsullied are recollecting this information by tiny bits from a lot of characters along two seasons... so, the information is there for who wants to see it, not complete at this point, but it's there.

In some ways it's exactly like in the books (the northern conspiracy, AA, or the prophecies as examples)

[CoolOff]

Sansa and Tyrion?

I highly doubt it. Possible, of course. But the Sansa/Baelish scene makes me think Littlefinger has plans for her, and they don't involve her being in King's Landing.

:drunk:

[Independent George]

So close... But Cat's throwaway line from S1E1 is throwing off the timing of #s 2-4. The assumption that Tywin was in King's Landing from the start is good reasoning - they just don't have enough information yet.

Roberts Rebellion Recap:

1) The Mad King starts to live up to his name;

2) Papa Stark and Brandon (and possibly Lyanna) arrive in (or are summoned to) KL;

3) MK kills Rickard and Brandon, while Jaime and a live studio audience of 100s looks on;

4) Rhaegar (abducts or elopes with) Lyanna (I am guessing abducts, because why in the name of the Seven would she elope with the son of the man who just killed her father and brother? Unless 3 & 4 are reversed);

5) Robert Baratheon breaks out his trusty war hammer because Rhaegar “has” his fiancee Lyanna;

5a) Maybe this is where Lyanna Stark dies from <A>, and Robert’s Rebellion is based on revenge?

5b) Or maybe she is pregnant, and hidden somewhere to give birth to Jon Snow later?

6) Ned Stark and Rbt, as heads of their respective houses, rise up in rebellion against the MK;

7) Other noble houses join Roberts Rebellion (Jon Arryn, The Tullys [assuming Ned and Cat were married/betrothed at that point], and...?);

8) Stannis holds Storms End, dreams of onions and salt beef;

9) <B> (Jon Snow’s birth, or…?) causes the death of Lyanna Stark (or she was already dead);

10) Rbt is busy Killing the Living Shit out of Rhaegar (thanks, stillshimpy!), so Ned arrives outside KL at the head of the rebel forces;

11) After the MK spends hours saying “burn them all”, Jaime Lannister kills His Royal Madness;

12) Most Targaryen children are killed in their sleep on the orders of Tywin Lannister, the Mad Hand (though this could just be anti-Lannister propaganda);

13) A pregnant Mrs. Mad King (perhaps his second wife?) and Viserys are either already somewhere else or escape from KL to <C>;

14) Tywin Lannister orders the KL gates opened to Ned, who promptly kicks Jaime off the Iron Throne;

15) Robert Baratheon, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm is crowned by right of conquest;

16) Daenerys is born (during a storm?), <D> happens to Mrs. Mad King, and Dany and Viserys are secreted off to points East;

17) Jon Arryn arranges for Rbt to marry Cersei, who promptly forgets her name;

18) Rbt begins a spirited campaign of drinking, profligate spending, and wholesale whoring, setting the stage for…

The Curtain Rises on Season One!

I also love that the consensus is, "Yes, of course Ned is stupid enough to let Viserys & Dany escape to spare their lives and take revenge later." Because, really, Ned is stupid enough to do just that (even if he didn't).

[sagaz]

they are a few posts away to connect that Rhaegar's wife was a Martell, and the Mountain killed the children. (I'm sure someone in the next 10 posts will throw that)

Some think Ned helped pregnant Rhaella and "Visy" escape from King's landing... the show needs history of the Kingsguard pronto.

[iheartseverus]

I wonder if the showrunners follow that thread? I think they must, since it seems, to me anyway, to be THE most focused, smart and dedicated show-following thread I've ever seen. For certain, the show picked up the 'pig shit' reference for wildfire from the Unsullied. There simply was no other explanation for including the reference in the show. Backstory for anyone who wasn't following the thread back then--someone on the show mentioned 'pitch,' an Unsullied thought they said pig shit, and the hilarity and speculation went on from there. if the showrunners ARE having someone monitor that thread (I would, its the perfect 'reality check' for what they're doing right, doing wrong, need to tweak or address), then hopefully they're going to give us--and the Unsullied--the full exposition info-dump that Independent George mentioned here. The Unsullied thread will explode then as they put all the jigsaw pieces together.

I am also greatly looking forward to the Unsullied meeting the Queen of Thorns (is that this Sunday?). They'll love her and will immediately begin to twig on why she's questioning Sansa, and that as a result of Sansa's answers about Joffrey, the QoT will have... something... in mind for him.

Good stuff all around.

[Arkash]

Oh how I want to that D&D are reading this thread ! Now I so look forward to Jaime's monologue ! They better do it !