[BOOK/TV SPOILERS] TWOP n00bs Thread II

[ebevan91]

Now they think since we've seen dragons and giants, we're going to see children of the forest.

Which I really want to see them as well.

[iheartseverus]

Now they think since we've seen dragons and giants, we're going to see children of the forest.

Which I really want to see them as well.

Me, too!!

[ebevan91]

and this is the way, piece by piece, they're putting Robert's rebellion together. :)

a lot of fun!

They're trying to figure out who opened the gates to King's Landing, where Dany was born, and what exactly happened to Lyanna, which leads me to asking...

Did the show even explain this stuff? I don't remember. They want to know what happened but you can't tell them since most of the Bob's Bellion stuff comes from the books.

[Titan]

I think a book-walker revealed himself... Tsk Tsk. (Dany being barren) Some people...

[ebevan91]

I think a book-walker revealed himself... Tsk Tsk. (Dany being barren) Some people...

We're not supposed to talk about bookwalkers.

[Nezzer]

I think a book-walker revealed himself... Tsk Tsk. (Dany being barren) Some people...

Well, Dany says in season 2 to Jorah that the dragons are the only children she will ever have. But I don't see how one could connect that to MMD.

[sagaz]

I don't think the show explained the parts they don't know. Some poster did a list with all the "X" about Robert´s rebellion:

RE: Roberts Rebellion - So do I have this right?...

1) Mad King goes mad;

2) MK kills Ned's father and brother, while Jaime and a live studio audience of 100s looks on;

3) Robert is pissed because <A> happens to his fiancee Lyanna and Rbt blames the Targs;

4) Ned and Robert, as heads of their respective houses, rise up in rebellion against the MK;

5) Other noble houses join Roberts Rebellion (Jon Arryn, The Tullys [assuming Ned and Cat were married at that point], and...?);

6) Stannis holds Storms End, dreams of onions and salt beef;

7) Jaime Lannister kills the MK;

8) <B> keeps Rbt from KL, so Ned arrives at the head of the rebel forces;

9) <C> allows Ned Stark to enter KL, kicks Jaime off the Iron Throne;

10) Either now or slightly earlier, most of MK's children are killed by <D>;

11) A pregnant Mrs. Mad King and Viserys are either already somewhere else or escape from KL to <E>;

12) Dany is born, <F> happens to Mrs. Mad King, and Dany and Viserys are secreted off to points East;

13) <G> causes the death of Lyanna, so Rbt marries Cersei and hates on Targs.

someone solves for B; (is this expression correct?)

the rebels (led by Ned's forces because Robert had a previous date with his hammer and Rhaegar).

and specifies:

I don't see how he (Jaime) could have wandered off and found children to kill. I would think that happened after it was clear King's Landing had been taken by the rebel forces. But I don't see how it could have been Jaime and I'm confident that Ned would have made it clear to his troops there would be no child killing. So, that had to be done by others. I just don't know who

I´ll love to see when they start filling the Xs...I hope the show take care of this details soon (only to see the unsullied reactions!!!)

[sagaz]

I think a book-walker revealed himself... Tsk Tsk. (Dany being barren) Some people...

I don't understand the fascination of pointing out people,,,to look smart?

Also, if someone have read the books, why would want to post there... to look smart? where would be the intelligence in that?

if they have or haven't, it's their problem NOT ours.

[Titan]

I don't understand the fascination of pointing out people,,,to look smart?

Also, if someone have read the books, why would want to post there... to look smart? where would be the intelligence in that?

if they have or haven't, it's their problem NOT ours.

LOL. Whatever, I'm just pointing out the obvious. And you clearly aren't familiar with the number of people who have been banned from that thread for this very kind of action. This has happened many times there. The people who are doing this - *They* are trying to look smart. Me? Nah. But I will say no further.

[ebevan91]

I don't think the show explained the parts they don't know. Some poster did a list with all the "X" about Robert´s rebellion:

someone solves for B; (is this expression correct?)

and specifies:

I´ll love to see when they start filling the Xs...I hope the show take care of this details soon (only to see the unsullied reactions!!!)

I know the show has mentioned the deaths of "the children", I watched that scene on Youtube today :D

But I don't think it was ever said that Gregor killed Aegon and Lorch killed Rhaenys.

I'm hoping that we get most of this info from Jaime or maybe the Reeds this season.

[Khal Porno]

Fight. Middle of the fight, not night.

Any rangers sleeping, cooking, or taking a shit inside the base camp is expected to take part in the defense. A foraging party sent away from the camp can not reasonably be expected to be a part of the perimeter defense if the attack happens while they're out foraging. The battle lines stand directly between them and the base.

In order for Sam to have been in a position to send the ravens, he had to have run all the way back to base camp, through the middle of the battle, then run back out through the lines again where we catch up to him at the open.

The only way it falls on Sam is if he had never been ordered out as part of the foraging party, but instead decided to abandon his post to follow his friends out to talk about Gilly. Which I suppose is possible, but seems very unlikely.

Have you never been blamed for something that was out of your control because the person who is upset is looking to vent their anger? I know I have. Just because it seems like Sam couldn't have sent the ravens anyway, doesn't mean that the Lord Commander wouldn't have hassled him about it.

[The Anti-Targ]

Catelyn married Ned, Lysa married Jon Arren, who was like a father to Bob and Ned, if you believe the pilot. That and the fact that he was Bob's Hand imply that he was a rebel too in Bob's rebellion. So either Tully were in the rebel camp too or maybe the Tullys weren't rebels but the two Tully girls simply had the hots for bad guys and wanted to rebel against their father?

I really hope someone does a sexposition scene where the sequence of events and motiviations for the rebellion get spelled out while someone's humping someone else. These guys are tantalisingly close to getting the cause of the rebellion right, but the show in fact has steered them slightly off. Brans sexless-exposition on the rebellion, and Robert's own equally sexless exposition on it over-emphasises his relationship to Lyanna as a cause for the rebellion.

Jon Arryn was THE rebel as he was first to call his banners against the king. I so want the Unsullied to learn of this fact, through the show.

Stannis will not support Dany, of course.

If only they knew how conflicted Stannis was about joining the rebellion. If Dany does turn up to lay claim to the throne I could see Stannis backing her. At least she has a legitimate historical claim, unlike the Lannister incest kid who currently occupies it. Stannis has the capacity to see a Targ as having a rightful claim, and if he has no personal ambition to rule then Dany would be a convenient way to back out of having to be the king.

[Independent George]

A final message regarding outing bookwalkers:

1. Read the opening post! I quote:

We do not

[accuse TWoP posters of being bookwalkers or otherwise being dishonest cheats. That constitutes 'gossiping' and 'talking behind their backs' about members of another website, and our mods will close us down for that. Who is or isn't a bookwalker over at TWoP is THEIR business, not ours.

2. A lot of posters there have admitted being spoiled accidentally without realizing it until later. The person who first mentioned Syrio/Jaqen put it out there as a joke because a friend said so and she thought it was absolutely ridiculous. That doesn't mean they're bookwalkers.

3. Seriously, read the opening post, dammit.

We know the bathtub scene is in; if they cover all the material from the scene in SOS, then it should clear up a lot of the confusion.

One thing I noticed was that a single throwaway line from S1 has led them down a blind alley:

1. It looks like this guy is ready to puzzle it out...

I think 2 and 3 are reversed. Then it makes (crazy) sense why the Mad King kills the Starks. We know what <A> is, Raygar rapes/elopes with Lyanna. I'm going to guess that Father and Brother Stark were at the Tullys working out the marriage (since brother Stark was engaged to Catlyen first and carved up Littlefinger in the process). Lyanna was at home with Benjen. Rayger comes along and snatches/seduces Lyanna. Father and Brother Stark rush to go complain to the King and ask him to control his son. Mad King screams "Traitors! Burn them!". That makes more sense to me then Mad King burning Starks for the heck of it.

2. But then this person recalls a line from S1 which flat contradicts it:

But wouldn't it make less sense that Brandon and Father Stark marched into King's Landing at the King's bidding?

Damn you showrunners!!!

[Arkash]

Varys if they aren't dead, just hidden as another ace up his sleeve, with convenient dead orphans to serve as bodies.

Man... one of them already speculating on secret Aegon ! Wow !

[sagaz]

This three posters are buildng this:

In episode 1x08 Robb said they were butchered in their sleep and Catelyn added that it happened on the orders of Tywin Lannister.

But I agree that so far only Raygar, Dany and Visy are known as Mad King children. The next most important children would be Raygar's (even though I'm not sure about succession when Raygar was killed before the Mad King), but if Raygar had children, he must have been married, most probably to his sister. That meant there were two very young Mad King children and two young adult Mad King children.

I'm banking on Rhaegar having a couple of children, as it's more feasible that Dany maybe wouldn't remember much about them to talk about them. But then that implies that Rhaegar had a wife which normally would mean another Targaryen sister, and something tells me Dany would mention her own sister. [...] So I guess Rhaegar's wife was from one of the other major houses, I mean we know that despite their incest fetish the Targaryen's are perfectly happy with more conventional marriage alliances when needs be.

they are this close to put together -in spitballing- that Rhaegar was married to a Martell (they have discussed the Martell's few days ago)

The only thing that i don't see the show adressing (through whom?) is the fight between Robert and Ned re: the killing of children, and that Lyanna's death brought them together again. I'm spitballing here... through Cat or Lysa or maybe Varys (he knows everyone motives, right?)

I think most of this details they are missing will be cleared up this season: to establish that rhaegar was an ok Targ, it's only needed a line from Barristan and the nature of R+L relationship through the Reeds

[BlackTalon]

In one post an "Unsullied" mentioned how they "know" that Riverrun is currently "besieged, surrounded by enemy forces and starving" ...

I am pretty sure that there has never been any mention in the show of what is currently happening there. Hell, even in the books Riverrun isn't being besieged at this point ... that happens in AFFC.

Draw your own conclusions, I'm not calling anybody anything ... I have about given up on following that thread, no fun anymore ...

[Arkash]

1x09 : If I recall correctly, Kevan Lannister talks about the situation at Riverrun.

[iheartseverus]

We know the bathtub scene is in; if they cover all the material from the scene in SOS, then it should clear up a lot of the confusion.

Refresh my memory--what bathtub scene?

Also, I'll be hanging on every word that Barristan says to Dany in the coming episodes, waiting for a tidbit about Rhaeger. At this point the TWoP'ers just need a few more scraps to put it all together. FUN!!

[protar]

In one post an "Unsullied" mentioned how they "know" that Riverrun is currently "besieged, surrounded by enemy forces and starving" ...

I am pretty sure that there has never been any mention in the show of what is currently happening there. Hell, even in the books Riverrun isn't being besieged at this point ... that happens in AFFC.

Draw your own conclusions, I'm not calling anybody anything ... I have about given up on following that thread, no fun anymore ...

I'm actually fairly sure it has been mentioned. Certainly it was mentioned in S1 that Jaime was besieging Riverrun and it's not too much to assume that it's continuing to play a part in the war.

[Mr Fixit]

I'm actually fairly sure it has been mentioned. Certainly it was mentioned in S1 that Jaime was besieging Riverrun and it's not too much to assume that it's continuing to play a part in the war.

The show clearly established that Jaime's forces were beseiging Riverrun. Then, in 1x10, Kevan says something like "Jaime captured, his host scattered, it's a catastrophe". The show didn't really spell it out, but it doesn't make sense that Riverrun is still under siege. Also, Robb has been kicking some Lannister behind for a time now. He'd certainly relieve the capital of Riverlands by now and not waste time chasing Tywin around, as 3x01 claims.