[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

[protar]

Just a wild guess, but you've never been a 17 year old male, have you?

Speaking for the 17 year old males I'd certainly not want anything to do with someone so arrogant and presumtious, who spends all her time slyly insulting me.

[SerMixalot]

I like the comment someone made that they suspect Robb quickly "finished" during that scene

[SerMixalot]

I think right after the scene was over Robb called for some sourleaf and liver and onions

[SelaBela]

ummm, whaa.., umm, ahhh, gee, ahhh umm, google search ahhhh, well ok, in BROAD terms I know what women want, it specific terms it remains a mystery

Not free balling Hodor or Theon. It would be equivalent to only seeing Brienne and Asha, naked.

THE ANDROSEXUALS DEMAND THEIR POUND OF FLESH!

[SerMixalot]

Well seeing Hodor was a few pounds of flesh, but I suppose I see your point.

[SerMixalot]

Speaking for the 17 year old males I'd certainly not want anything to do with someone so arrogant and presumtious, who spends all her time slyly insulting me.

You are a very unique young man then. And I say that as high praise.

[teemo]

Just a wild guess, but you've never been a 17 year old male, have you?

But most 17 year old males don't have the entire fate of their people in their hands based on a marriage pact they made. Most are not out for revenge because someone lopped off their father's head and they're now a king. Sleeping with her is one thing, plenty of high borns sleep with whoever they want....marrying her, that's another issue. Especially in the midst of camp, with all the shit going on around him with his mother, brothers, Jaime Lannister....he's not injured on the Crag just being taken care of by this girl. He's in the middle of chaos. In the books he can barely focus or even talk to Jeyne at camp. In the tv show it seems like Jeyne is his focus, and the war is an afterthought!

Speaking for the 17 year old males I'd certainly not want anything to do with someone so arrogant and presumtious, who spends all her time slyly insulting me.

I'm not a 17 year old guy, but I go both ways and would not want anything to do with her either. She is irritating and obnoxious.

[protar]

You are a very unique young man then. And I say that as high praise.

Do most young men like arrogant, presumptuous, insulting women?

[SerMixalot]

Do most young men like arrogant, presumptuous, insulting women?

if they are hot and giving them attention, typ. yes

[notakneeler]

Thanks Kittykatknits and Rickon is fierce for setting out so nicely what bothers me about the show.

I am in awe of the acting on the series- and I am even more in awe of the love and care taken with the sets and props ( got a close look at them in Toronto)- BUT-

I believe D&D just plain misunderstand many of the main characters. You can have differing opinions on the characters- but if you can think John Snow lacks a father figure...you are just plain WRONG. The book clearly shows Ned was a loving and ever-present father .

If you think Jaime is a psychotic....then his motivations are unreachable to all of us non-psychotics...The book clearly shows Jaime's thinking as not delusional, but based on real events. Aerys did want to burn down King's Landing, it was not a paranoid delusion on Jaime's part. Jamie has his own code of honour- but D&D don't believe a psychotic will draw a line between killing a mad king for the commoners of king's landing, killing a little boy to save his sister and killing a cousin to escape imprisonment. A psychotic has no conscience-. A psychotic can't change his behaviour. So how can they write Jaime's redemption arc if they believe this is a man with no conscience?

Just two examples of how D&D's reading of the characters seems so very WRONG to me. They handle the people they understand BRILLIANTLY. Theon's story is just plain awesome. But the changes I initially thought were being made for the sake of television story-telling are not being driven by adaptation to the medium. They are re-writing characters based on faulty premises, IMHO.

The sets and costuming are brilliant and really evoke Martin's universe, but throw in dyslexia, book-reading whores and sellswords, saucy MSF Volantine nurses, and the dissonance between the medieval scenes and the modern sensibility keeps kicking me out of the presentation.

[Kittykatknits]

Here's a good recap of nude scenes for the first half of Season 2 : http://fantastiquecollective.tumblr.com/post/22217738489/halftime-score-nudity-in-game-of-thrones Basically it's a 4/1 ratio. It's even more lopsided after adding the last 3 episodes I think, when we've had both Osha and Talisa completely naked, while Theon and Robb were clothed/covered.

Thanks for the link. I saw a blog post a few weeks back that kept statistics on the average number of boobs per episode. The current number was 5.8 since the show first debuted. I wish I could find that now. I would also add Melisandre and Stannis to the list.

I would like to point out that even though D&D have changed the script around in places, and changed the nuances and motivations of several characters, they are still being remarkably faithful to the overall theme and tone of the stories. When HBO bought the rights to this story, they bought it hook line and sinker. They are in their rights to do anything they wish. Just look at True Blood. The first season was similar to the first book, and from there they completely departed.

Never read the books but I thought the second season of True Blood was awful and stopped watching it after that.

It's just grossly unbalanced overall. Not only is there 4x more female nudity, most of the women are completely naked while the men just have bare chests. Even when two people have sex, the guy is usualy fully clothed, like Stannis and Melisandre. They better make it up next season with Jaime's bathtub scene.

What made the scene between Stannis and Melisandre even more annoying for me was how they put her in this seductress role. Stannis doesn't want to because he's married and swore vows. Then we have Melisandre: "You must, look at my beautiful, naked body, I'll even give you a son". Poor Stannis was almost tricked in to having sex with he. It was eye-rolling for me.

We saw Theon's junk? As in like balls and all? I don't remember that, I must have put it in a deep, deep, DEEP corner of my mind in a jar of bleach.

Seriously? We're supposed to get all excited about HODOR and THEON? Gimme a break guys.

With Theon, it was brief. You blink and you miss it.

There was one more full-frontal display but I can understand why you might have blocked it out. In season one, we got to see the wineseller's floppy fish while he was tied to Dany's horse. Otherwise, that's it.

[Lord Over]

I'm a bit iffy about Stannis telliing Davos he is going to be The Hand so soon, it seems an overkill for a reward. Davos was named Hand for telling his king the truth in the face of being burned alive. We already promoted Davos to admiral, why give him a season 3 promotion so soon?

[SerMixalot]

do women actually get into seeing that stuff? Men obviously do with women's bods, that has been well established. I dont particularly care if they show mens stuff or not. It is only fair so why not, I realize that there is a fine line with porn-there about how far up the mast is sticking and all.

[SerMixalot]

I'm a bit iffy about Stannis telliing Davos he is going to be The Hand so soon, it seems an overkill for a reward. Davos was named Hand for telling his king the truth in the face of being burned alive. We already promoted Davos to admiral, why give him a season 3 promotion so soon?

for me it is a stupid move, that puts Davos directly responsible for the failure on the attack on KL.

[SerMixalot]

promoting him after KL makes far more sense as book Davos was the one warning against all the mistakes of the attack

[Buckwheat]

Seriously? We're supposed to get all excited about HODOR and THEON? Gimme a break guys.

My whole post was a joke, SelaBela :P. I think nobody gets all excited about Hodor.

[SerMixalot]

Osha seemed to like what she saw

and of course Hodor did say "Hodor"

[Buckwheat]

Osha seemed to like what she saw and of course Hodor did say "Hodor"

What does saying "Hodor" have to do with it?

[Kittykatknits]

NCW's response in an interview as to whether he would be going full-frontal in GOT: "Oh God, no."

:cool4:

But no seriously, even as a straight male (albeit with a considerable mancrush) I'd appreciate Nikolaj going for it. Go on Nik.

Well, I did say at least half-naked. Also, I would like to respectfully remind NCW that he has a backside too. Just saying.

THIS ABSOLUTELY 100%. Not at all an accurate characterization of either of them. Jaime's turn begins in the dungeon, in that scene with Catelyn before she releases him. He's not a monster or psychotic. He's impulsive, cocky and arrogant, and his time alone with himself finally forces him to evaluate himself and his life, and he doesn't like what he sees. Yet he firmly believes his killing of Aerys was justified and the honorable thing, though it's brought him nothing but dishonor and infamy. And for the first time he realizes, as do we, that he does care about his honor- that "shit for honor" comment of Cat's haunts him well into the story. He is beginning to reevaluate himself and we take the journey with him. I firmly believe we're supposed to begin changing our attitude toward Jaime in that (book) scene which is why he begins to open up and present his side to the story, including the revelation, among other things, that he's been entirely faithful to Cersei, which stunned me when I first read it. Truly there are a few psychotics in the series, but Jaime's not one of them.

Jon...lack of a father figure???? WTF??? What's always going through his head every time he bangs Ygritte? "Was it like this for my father? Did my dad feel this way? What about my vows- my vows- my vows (hmmmm....where might he have learned that??)? What nonsense.

Yeah it was these interviews with D+D that I was reffering to when I said that they don't understand or care about the source material. I've seen some pretty crazy ideas on this forum, but NEVER have I seen a misinterpretation of ASOIAF quite so large as those ones (or the one pointed out in the Robb thread where D+D think that it was Cat's fault that Robb slept with Talisa!). Really Martin should have been given more creative power over the show. That way we'd only get the deviations with a purpose.

Yep, exactly. We've only heard these statements about a few characters so far but it seems to indicate a growing trend. I think Martin wrote these characters in such as way that we can react and understand them differently. But, they strike me as being way off the mark. I suspect as seasons progress, the differences will only grow more obvious.

do women actually get into seeing that stuff? Men obviously do with women's bods, that has been well established. I dont particularly care if they show mens stuff or not. It is only fair so why not, I realize that there is a fine line with porn-there about how far up the mast is sticking and all.

If by stuff, do you mean fully naked men? Can't speak for all women, but for me depends on the man. Personally, I prefer seeing shots of mens chest and back but that's me. Abs are nice too. As for the mast, I've no desire to see bulbous purple heads on the show but I'd be fine seeing something that's a decent size and fairly uniform in color.

[SerMixalot]

What does saying "Hodor" have to do with it?

a joke my good ser