Is Braavos going to declare for Stannis?

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Exactly. The Lannisters won't, and Aegon and Daenerys will simply say the others are usurpers and their debt cannot be recognized.

I'm sure that neither Aegon nor Daenerys would feel honor-bound to fulfill Robert's debts. But if it was presented to them in a different way, more as a deal than an obligation, I bet that they could be talked around. Having the Iron Bank's backing could mean the difference between success and failure, after all, and what's assuming the Usurper's debts next to that? (Of course, it's a done deal now: the Iron Bank has thrown its hat in with Stannis.)

[Ghiscari]

I think it's in Braavos' interest to keep at least the outward appearance of neutrality. Too much trade (and intelligence, for that matter) passes through the city.

The Iron Bank surely exerts significant power over the Sealords though, given its ability to reshape other governments. The relationship may be as direct as the Medici bank/family. How the Faceless Men fit into this relationship is harder to say. I like to think the Iron Bank is simply able to afford their high prices. (But then what do they do with all that money?)

I had wondered where/how Dany fit into their plans though.

[TheeMikeHoncho]

She knows Tommen. They won't send her to kill someone she knows according to their rules.

Well, who is to say that she will kill Tommen? After all she is an apprentice serving a master assassin. If Tommen is the mark, would you have a shapeshifitng master assassin or his 12yr old apprentice do it?

[TheDarkOne]

I wouldn't be shocked to see the Iron Bank also back Dany and play both sides for their own profit. They might wager that it makes more sense to back both sides and then the win is assured either way.

It wouldn't surprise me if somehow the different sell sword companies are interlinked with them also.

[Tini]

I don't see the Iron Bank backing Dany. Not because they are above backing all sides in a conflict, but because it is unlikely that Stannis will invade Braavos. He is interested in Westeros and the Iron Throne only. While Dany is currently a conquering presence in Essos - a presence that might not even fade away if she conquers Westeros.

As things currently stand, the Iron Bank might reason that Stannis cannot hope to win without their backing which means that he depends on them. That they can exert some measure of control over him. Dany's ability to invade Westeros does not depend on backing by the Iron Bank which means that she may be a lot harder to control.

[VaramyrSixchins]

As others have pointed out, a condition of the IB deal with Stannis is his taking on the Lannister/King Robert's debt. Jon straight up says the IB's MO is to replace the rulers who stiff them on their debt. They give a shit who sits the Iron Throne, as long as payments are being made.

Hopefully this doesn't mean Jon was stabbed because he missed his first payment on HIS Iron Bank loan. :cool4:

[TheDarkOne]

Dany's ability to invade Westeros does not depend on backing by the Iron Bank which means that she may be a lot harder to control.

You make this statement definitively but ion truth it is highly debatable.

We don't know just how involved the Iron Bank has been historically, but all signs point to them controlling the throne by proxy. Now this could mean financial support, or it also could mean unleashing a horde of assassins if one doesn't cooperate. This could also be why it appears Pate/Jaqen is perhaps getting texts on Dragons.

Either way, to act as if Dany is independent of this just because she has Dragons is poorly thought out.

[total1402]

I don't see the Iron Bank backing Dany. Not because they are above backing all sides in a conflict, but because it is unlikely that Stannis will invade Braavos. He is interested in Westeros and the Iron Throne only. While Dany is currently a conquering presence in Essos - a presence that might not even fade away if she conquers Westeros.

As things currently stand, the Iron Bank might reason that Stannis cannot hope to win without their backing which means that he depends on them. That they can exert some measure of control over him. Dany's ability to invade Westeros does not depend on backing by the Iron Bank which means that she may be a lot harder to control.

What you think they'd be worried that she'd burn Braavos to the ground? ;)

IMO the slaver lords making the mistake of attacking Dany coz they wrongly think shes a threat is a quick way to lose out.

[total1402]

You make this statement definitively but ion truth it is highly debatable.

We don't know just how involved the Iron Bank has been historically, but all signs point to them controlling the throne by proxy. Now this could mean financial support, or it also could mean unleashing a horde of assassins if one doesn't cooperate. This could also be why it appears Pate/Jaqen is perhaps getting texts on Dragons.

Either way, to act as if Dany is independent of this just because she has Dragons is poorly thought out.

Dragons can burn cities to the ground. Why risk making an enemy of a foe that can do that. Its like saying "I have special forces which can disable your nukes on the ground" but if they fail then those dragons burn Braavos to the ground. If the Faceless Men were THAT good then surely Braavos would have conquered the world and the guild would play Kingmaker. As it is it takes contracts off everyone and have only killed Balon Greyjoy far as I'am aware in GoT.

[Lord Varys]

Dany and her forces are not going to conquer/attack Pentos. I'm quite sure the Tattered Prince's obsession with Pentos has to do with Illyrio. He wants to get even with him, and when Dany is finally leaving Slaver's Bay for Westeros, Illyrio Mopatis most likely is not going to be at Pentos anymore. He has promised to join Aegon and the Golden Company at King's Landing.

And considering the modified plan (the invasion of Westeros without Dany and her dragons) it's not that unlikely that Pentos is going to declare for Aegon. Illyrio might not come in force to KL, accompanied by sellswords, or whatever regular soldiers the Pentoshi have.

If Dany really would intent to give Pentos to the Tattered Prince, they would postpone this conquest until after the Iron Throne. Getting sidetracked this close to the Westerosi mainland, would not only alarm Dany's enemies in Westeros, but allow them more than enough time, to form a strong coalition against her.

As to the Iron Bank:

My guess is that the House of Black and White founded the Iron Bank all the time back when Braavos was founded. The Faceless Men charge enormous sums for their assassinations, but what are they doing with all this money?

More importantly, how gets the Iron Bank its due all the time. Yes, it's the biggest bank in the Free Cities, but that alone should not be enough to enforce its upon foreign chiefs of state. Financing the efforts of another pretender does not make a difference (in fact, it might only be waste of even more money, if said pretender does not win his war) if you don't have the means to get rid of the prince/king who crossed you. That's were the Faceless Men come into play.

Yes, it's possible that the Iron Bank merely hire the Faceless Men, but in my opinion the chances for this being some kind of collective body behind the shadows are pretty high. Every Braavosi fears the Faceless Men, and we have already proof that the House of Black and White has sway over pretty much everyone in Braavos - remember, the Kindly Man's offer to Arya get her in the houses of wealthy people and such.

Also, it's kind of strange, that we never ever hear from Arya talk about the Iron Bank. There seems to be no corporate headquarters or something like that.

We should also keep in mind that the Faceless Men probably caused the Doom of Valyria as well. This would make them the anti-dragon faction in Martinworld.

If the Faceless Men are the group calling the shots in Braavos, this would explain a lot:

1. Why they would sent a Faceless Man into the Citadel (to acquire knowledge about the dragons/the Azor Ahai prophecy).

2. Why they would strike a deal with Stannis (to put an anti-dragon king on the Iron Throne; and to get their investment back).

The logical step after Stannis accepted to make due of Robert's, Joffrey's, and Tommen's debts would be to

1. Deploy Faceless Men to deal with Stannis's enemies (Cersei, Tommen, Myrcella, Margaery, Mace, Roose, Ramsay, etc.; eventually possibly Dany and Aegon as well).

2. Backing Stannis militarily, since they have to ensure that he wins in the field as well. They won't get their money back if he and his enemies both die.

I'd not be surprised if whoever is going to become the new Sealord of Braavos is going to declare that a huge Braavosi armada will set out for White Harbor/Eastwatch, delivering food and soldiers to Stannis.

[total1402]

Why do they hate dragons?

The faceless men boomed Valyria, killing far more people than all the Dragons combined, but hate them because...

If anything for that action alone the faceless men are one of the most evil factions in the series.

They're just beasts used by evil men, nothing more and nothing less.

If they hated them so much then why did they allow the Targarians to conquer Westeros with them? Even to ally with Braavos during a war?

[Lord Varys]

When did the Braavosi ever ally themselves with the Targaryens? I only the uprising against the Volantenes before the Conquest, but Aegon only stated that 'Aegon Targaryen flew forth from Dragonstone'. The Storm King and the Targaryens jumped on the chance to break the Volantene advance/domination around the Stepstones, but I guess the real deal was made between the Free Cities why allied themselves against Volantis.

Not sure why the Faceless Men brought the gift of death to the Valyrians - but they did. And Tycho Nestoris was really pissed about Jon's joke about a dragon. This has to be a hint about lingering dragon resentment in Braavos. Of course the Braavosi can differentiate between dragons and their riders, but without dragons there are no dragonriders, so I guess there issue truly is with the poor animals...

[total1402]

When did the Braavosi ever ally themselves with the Targaryens? I only the uprising against the Volantenes before the Conquest, but Aegon only stated that 'Aegon Targaryen flew forth from Dragonstone'. The Storm King and the Targaryens jumped on the chance to break the Volantene advance/domination around the Stepstones, but I guess the real deal was made between the Free Cities why allied themselves against Volantis.

Not sure why the Faceless Men brought the gift of death to the Valyrians - but they did. And Tycho Nestoris was really pissed about Jon's joke about a dragon. This has to be a hint about lingering dragon resentment in Braavos. Of course the Braavosi can differentiate between dragons and their riders, but without dragons there are no dragonriders, so I guess there issue truly is with the poor animals...

Well if they want to take issue, all they have to do is send their fleet to slavers bay and wait for Dany to burn their city to the ground. ;)Thats even more stupid a reason for the Braavosi to hate Dany than the bloody slavers; even though she doesn't want war after taking Mereen.

He flew forth from Dragonstone which implies that he was involved in the War. It would be odd if they didn't take that example into account. Also ,the Iron Bank presumably leant money to the Targs. Its implied to be a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" in action between Braavos and the Targs.

[TheDarkOne]

Acting as if the Faceless Men are the power behind the Iron Bank is like saying that Navy Seals control the Congress. It doesn't make any sense.

[Lord Varys]

Well, the Navy Seals are not a rather powerful religious assassin cult predating the creation of the United States, are they? The Faceless Men are. They were there even before Braavos was founded, and they had a part in everything that happened since then.

[total1402]

Well, the Navy Seals are not a rather powerful religious assassin cult predating the creation of the United States, are they? The Faceless Men are. They were there even before Braavos was founded, and they had a part in everything that happened since then.

Has somebody been following Assasians Creed 3 perchance? :)

[aryagonnakill]

You make this statement definitively but ion truth it is highly debatable.

We don't know just how involved the Iron Bank has been historically, but all signs point to them controlling the throne by proxy. Now this could mean financial support, or it also could mean unleashing a horde of assassins if one doesn't cooperate. This could also be why it appears Pate/Jaqen is perhaps getting texts on Dragons.

Either way, to act as if Dany is independent of this just because she has Dragons is poorly thought out.

There is no mention by dany or anyone near her at any point during the series that she needs the iron banks backing to take the throne. I havent read dunk and egg stuff but i find it hard to believe that jorah and tyrion and dany and all the others would fail to mention it.

[What Is Dead Already Died]

Didn't the books explicitly state that in retribution for someone trying to rip off the bank they fund rivals to overthrow the "deadbeat" and then collect payment back from the new Lord or King. Why would the rest of braavos be brought in?

The bank just wants it money and will do what it takes to get repaid based on what i remember from the books.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

Didn't the books explicitly state that in retribution for someone trying to rip off the bank they fund rivals to overthrow the "deadbeat" and then collect payment back from the new Lord or King. Why would the rest of braavos be brought in?

The bank just wants it money and will do what it takes to get repaid based on what i remember from the books.

Yeah. The reason they're funding Stannis now is just to spread their financial risk. King Tommen still owes them money and might pay eventually, but why put all their eggs in one basket? Funding Stannis is probably an inexpensive (for the Iron Bank) risk mitigation tactic. If Tommen won't pay, maybe Stannis will win and will then pay.

If Stannis dies, oh well. The Iron Bank goes back to trying to collect from Tommen.

As for the Faceless Men, they're busy laying the groundwork for the return of their God of Death to Westeros. (That's why Jacquen is in the Citadel looking for rare books about killing dragons. Dragons are a danger to the Great Other & his minions, so the FM want to take them out.) I don't think they're too involved with banking matters. But they could be.

[total1402]

As for the Faceless Men, they're busy laying the groundwork for the return of their God of Death to Westeros. (That's why Jacquen is in the Citadel looking for rare books about killing dragons. Dragons are a danger to the Great Other & his minions, so the FM want to take them out.) I don't think they're too involved with banking matters. But they could be.

..............

Say what????

You mean they serve the ice zombie monsters? i thought that their god was meant to be all gods s he had all their faces? I hope Arya cottons on and does unto them what Dany did the House of the undying.