Why no Crannogmen in Robb's army?

[Lyanna's Promise]

Hmm, but Howland Reed must have had some sword fighting skills to return alive after fighting the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy.

But then again that probably doesn't apply to all crannogmen.

[dtones520]

Nvm misread post.

[The Last Direwolf]

Fair points. But another thing I never got though, is why Robb left such massive reserves in the North. An 18,000 army against the 35,000 that Tywin could field would be at an obvious disadvantage and the Riverlords could barely muster enough to get them close to even. I understand the need for speed, but why didn't he leave a trustworthy bannerman (Greatjon or Robett Glover, maybe?) at Winterfell to gather another 15,000 or so and bring that army south as reinforcements? Its not like it wasn't possible (the North was probably capable of fielding 60K at the start), and the ironborn might have been less inclined to invade if their was a rather large host being raised at Winterfell already. And with those reinforcements, a war against the Lannister/Tyrell alliance could have been much more possible, especially with a general such as Robb.

[LadyMary]

The crannogmen are fighting with guerilla tactics in the Neck making trouble for enemy forces. They were doing their part for the war effort.

[NewJeffCT]

a lot of woulda coulda shoulda.

I always wonder what would have happened if the Ironborn had decided on their own to attack Lannisport instead of the North (or even taken Robb's offer). With Robb and his army in the West and Lannisport under attack, Tywin would have been forced to march West to confront the two threats.

That means Stannis takes King's Landing and can consolidate his strength while the Lannisters fight it out with the Northmen and the Ironborn and wear each other down.

I agree with a few people above - the crannogmen will make an epic appearance later on in Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring

[dtones520]

Fair points. But another thing I never got though, is why Robb left such massive reserves in the North. An 18,000 army against the 35,000 that Tywin could field would be at an obvious disadvantage and the Riverlords could barely muster enough to get them close to even. I understand the need for speed, but why didn't he leave a trustworthy bannerman (Greatjon or Robett Glover, maybe?) at Winterfell to gather another 15,000 or so and bring that army south as reinforcements? Its not like it wasn't possible (the North was probably capable of fielding 60K at the start), and the ironborn might have been less inclined to invade if their was a rather large host being raised at Winterfell already. And with those reinforcements, a war against the Lannister/Tyrell alliance could have been much more possible, especially with a general such as Robb.

I don't think he wanted to leave the North completely undefended. There was no way he knew that the Boltons would turn on him, even if it was his own actions that led to this. Ser Rodrik would have had retaken Winterfell and probably gotten the Ironborn out of the North without Robb needing to go back that way, had the Boltons stayed true. You can't leave your home completely undefended.

Also, he had half of the Northern forces, plus the remaining forces of the Riverlands at his back. I'm assuming that he thought the Vale would have called their banners for him as well, considering his Aunt was calling the shots there. No one realized, until Cat saw her, how nuts Lysa was.

Keep in mind, Robb didn't go South thinking he was going to become a King.

[Faint]

Much of it also had to do with gathering the army. Robb would have had to delay for months to marshal his whole force together. The North, as I'm sure everyone is aware, is four times the size of any other region.

[King Doug]

Fair points. But another thing I never got though, is why Robb left such massive reserves in the North. An 18,000 army against the 35,000 that Tywin could field would be at an obvious disadvantage and the Riverlords could barely muster enough to get them close to even. I understand the need for speed, but why didn't he leave a trustworthy bannerman (Greatjon or Robett Glover, maybe?) at Winterfell to gather another 15,000 or so and bring that army south as reinforcements? Its not like it wasn't possible (the North was probably capable of fielding 60K at the start), and the ironborn might have been less inclined to invade if their was a rather large host being raised at Winterfell already. And with those reinforcements, a war against the Lannister/Tyrell alliance could have been much more possible, especially with a general such as Robb.

At the time, there was no such alliance. He only had to fight the Lannisters. And he knew that he had to be fast, and he also knew that the Lannister army was divided into two. His 20,000 + Riverlands forces vs. Lannisters 35,000, not terrible odds.

I do think he was depending heavily on an alliance with the Baratheons. The hope that Robert and Ned's friendship/alliance held some sway in the minds of Robert's brothers.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Maybe its just me but what I remember is that

1. When Rob left Ned was still alive and the goal was to see him freed.

2. In was done in haste. for a show of force to gain the freedom of Ned

3. Rob left a small garrison at the moat, and sent word for Greywatch to Harrass any body trying to go north.

4. its wasn't until he got to the Twins that he learned of his fathers death, and it became a war.

[Xander Baratheon]

but I feel that if Robb had had just a few hundred of Howland's men with his army, scouting and the such would have been made much easier and Robb's attack on the Westerlands would have gone a lot more smoothly.

What didn't go smoothly militarily for Robb Stark? He was undefeated on the battlefield. Failed alliances and betrayal was his downfall. As mentioned by others, he went south only waging war against the Lannisters. Robb hailed Stannis as his king and was in a bit of a time crunch to rescue Ned. That's why the Twins was so important originally, had to be super quick.

[Ser Arc]

Fair points. But another thing I never got though, is why Robb left such massive reserves in the North. An 18,000 army against the 35,000 that Tywin could field would be at an obvious disadvantage and the Riverlords could barely muster enough to get them close to even. I understand the need for speed, but why didn't he leave a trustworthy bannerman (Greatjon or Robett Glover, maybe?) at Winterfell to gather another 15,000 or so and bring that army south as reinforcements? Its not like it wasn't possible (the North was probably capable of fielding 60K at the start), and the ironborn might have been less inclined to invade if their was a rather large host being raised at Winterfell already. And with those reinforcements, a war against the Lannister/Tyrell alliance could have been much more possible, especially with a general such as Robb.

Robb called his banners and marched south without the intention of becoming the King in the North. He went south to pressure for the release of his father and to protect his mother's House. He didn't feel it was necessary to mobilize the entire North to fulfill those goals. Things changed when Ned lost his head and Robb gained a crown.

The answer to why he didn't raise more levies after the crowning is simple: Martin has shown us time and time again that while Robb is an expert tactician, he has no skill for grand strategy. At the end of the day, he was still a reckless teenager and a green wolf.

[Jon Wolfwalker]

I agree that it has to be something to do with the Seer ability. Wasn't is stated that Reed was Ned's staunchest ally? I think it may just be that he is waiting for a moment he has seen in his vision to avenge Ned or the Stark house in general.

[A bowl of brown]

I agree that Cranogmen probably aren't really suited to fighting outside of the swamps, but I do wonder why Jojen and Meera didn't have any escort at all on their way to Winterfell. It seem a bit odd to leave your only children unguarded on open roads during wartime.

[Aegon's Landing]

I think the CMen are much more valuable to the Starks without swords in their hands- I'm sure they were called with the rest of the banners, just their service is a different animal altogether and it remains to be seen what it really is. Just as many assume Howland Reed was at the TOJ with sword in hand and fought with the 3 Kingsguard hand to hand...I suspect that was not the case at all. Fight he did, but in his own bastardized Crannogman / CotF style. Warging. Seeing. Magic.

Am I missing something? I remember Ramsey using Theon to relieve the ironborn of Moat Cailin at last read. It's been a while since I've read....

[Stanmore]

People are forgetting that Westeros opperates under a feudal system. The North doesn't have a standing army that Robb can order about as he likes. Outside of Winterfells own men, (most of which went south with Ned) all the men in his army have been supplied by his vassal lords . How many troops each lord is obliged to send will vary from feudal contract to feudal contract. Now the starks were popular and many Lords may have supplied more than their contracts stated, but others were probably weary of going to war with the iron throne and kept large portions of their troops behind to defend their own lands.

In the case of the Crannogmen, it's possible that their position on the fringes of the region meant that they weren't required to send any levies at all, rather they'd be expected to stay behind and defend the north from attack.

[Ser Arc]

I agree that Cranogmen probably aren't really suited to fighting outside of the swamps, but I do wonder why Jojen and Meera didn't have any escort at all on their way to Winterfell. It seem a bit odd to leave your only children unguarded on open roads during wartime.

Howland Reed traveled alone as he explored the Riverlands. Maybe its a Reed tradition to go backpacking across other lands.

[Ser Arc]

I think the CMen are much more valuable to the Starks without swords in their hands- I'm sure they were called with the rest of the banners, just their service is a different animal altogether and it remains to be seen what it really is. Just as many assume Howland Reed was at the TOJ with sword in hand and fought with the 3 Kingsguard hand to hand...I suspect that was not the case at all. Fight he did, but in his own bastardized Crannogman / CotF style. Warging. Seeing. Magic.

Am I missing something? I remember Ramsey using Theon to relieve the ironborn of Moat Cailin at last read. It's been a while since I've read....

It appears Crannogman also use poison darts.

[Brienne Tarly]

I think the CMen are much more valuable to the Starks without swords in their hands- I'm sure they were called with the rest of the banners, just their service is a different animal altogether and it remains to be seen what it really is. Just as many assume Howland Reed was at the TOJ with sword in hand and fought with the 3 Kingsguard hand to hand...I suspect that was not the case at all. Fight he did, but in his own bastardized Crannogman / CotF style. Warging. Seeing. Magic.

Am I missing something? I remember Ramsey using Theon to relieve the ironborn of Moat Cailin at last read. It's been a while since I've read....

Theon did "open" Moat Cailin, but I think he could only do that because Reed's "bog devils" had done most of the work for him. Most of the remaining Ironborn were already dead or sick from poisoned arrows, they didn't even have a proper line of command anymore. It seemed to me that it would have been only a question of time before they would have collapsed without any intervention from the Boltons.

Moat Cailin is supposed to be impregnable from the south, but that's always assuming the defenders don't have the Reed's guerilla "tickling" them from behind/all sides. (It was originally Robb's plan to use Howland's help to get rid of the Ironborn, after all.)

[Opkio]

Like mentioned above: they're probably useless outside the swamps. They're not trained in fighting the enemy in the open field.

Yet Howland went South with Ned...

My guess is Jojen or someone had a green dream that hold them back for a greater purpose.

[Opkio]

I agree that it has to be something to do with the Seer ability. Wasn't is stated that Reed was Ned's staunchest ally? I think it may just be that he is waiting for a moment he has seen in his vision to avenge Ned or the Stark house in general.

Agreed.