Balon Swann & the Hunt for the Darkstar

[SerGrahamando ofUttershill]

Where is it that her injuries are described in detail? And, more importantly, who describes them? I don't have a book handy.

[Ciazio]

Where is it that her injuries are described in detail? And, more importantly, who describes them? I don't have a book handy.

Ser Gerold Dayne attempted to kill Myrcella to force Doran Martell into a war against the Lannisters. He failed to kill her, but Myrcella lost an ear and received a hideous facial scar.

↑ A Feast for Crows, Chapter 40, The Princess in the Tower

I forgot about the facial scar... It can support your theory, still I hope it won't, for Cersei's wit sake. And for plot's sake, two child swaps are enough, three if you count also Jon's "secret identity".

[Khal Drogo's Mighty Thighs]

Darkstar's a boss. I believe that Obara, the most aggressive and manly Sand Snake who most desires war with the Lannisters, will murder Ser Balon Swann with Darkstar's help in a bad-ass battle. Obara and Darkstar will work together to kill Myrcella, as they both want war with the Lannisters, and Mother Maggy prophesied that all of Cersei's children would die before she did.

Myrcella and Tommen are toast either way.

The most logical way that Myrcella could die would be at the hands of some Dornish, eager for war and resentful of Oberyn's death. It is my opinion that Darkstar is, indeed, under the employment of Prince Doran. Doran is much more ruthless and cunning than he would have anyone believe. He is good with plots (he says himself, he has been plotting the downfall of the Lannisters for twenty years) and has Myrcella in his power.

Of course, he needs a scapegoat for the murder, so he hires a dangerous killer- Darkstar. The plan goes awry when Myrcella survives and Ser Balon Swann is sent to catch him. However, all it takes is for Ser Balon to disappear, and for another more successful attempt on Myrcella's life, and Dorne will rally itself for war.

[The King of Worms]

If he works for him, what does Doran accomplish by attacking Myrcella? I suppose he may have wanted to only wound her, but why?

Although Doran saying Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne kinda does get me thinking he might be working for him.

That would be awesome!

I'm not sure it would even work, though. Balon Swann doesn't seem like the kind of knight that would take Dawn. And why would Dawn be at Arthur's grave?

Because Darkstar put it there, with the snake... as a trap.

Look, I just stole it from Kill Bill 2. Dark Star seems more like a Kill Bill character than a Game of Thrones character.

Still I do think in a Darkstar VS. Balon Swan... that the victory goes to Darkstar achieved through treacherous slimy maneuver rather than one-on-one battle.

GrrM likes to make us think we are going to get a duel, but then he denies us, and kills the more heroic one through lowdown treachery.

So yeah, a Darkstar win achieved by poison or some kind of trap...

[Ice Turtle]

The most logical way that Myrcella could die would be at the hands of some Dornish Jonn Connington who swore to end Usurper's line forever

Fixed. According Arianne II Myrcella has already left Dorne. I think that JonCon will kill at least one of "Robert's" children

[Silent_Hero]

Fixed. According Arianne II Myrcella has already left Dorne. I think that JonCon will kill at least one of "Robert's" children

Doran Martell reminds me of Michael Corleone,that coolness and soft-spoken voice but beneath it a ruthless Murderer just begging to snap. Need I remind anyone that Doran Martell has remained sitting on his ass for the past 15 years while his sister and her children were brutally murdered, this guy has to be the one to watch out for, there's no way he doesn't want to see Myrcella alive he wants her dead.

[Quentyn Baratheon]

Balon Swann is too good of a knight to survive tWoW.

Now, I think is gonna kill the douchebag with his morning star (see what I did here) but be taken down by Obara.

[Blackfyre Bob]

Poor Darkstar, gettin' so much hate! Love the thread, especially the idea of Dayne working for Martell. I really don't know to what extent Myrcella's attack was orchestrated by Doran Martell, but it is very interesting. Has anyone considered that Doran considers Darkstar dangerous not because of his skill at arms, but because of something he knows???

[aryagonnakill]

^ Yes that was what I immediately thought on reading the chapter because I would imagine that Areo Hotah is the most dangerous man in Dorne when it comes to weapons, or would at least be considered that way by Doran.

[The King of Worms]

^ Yes that was what I immediately thought on reading the chapter because I would imagine that Areo Hotah is the most dangerous man in Dorne when it comes to weapons, or would at least be considered that way by Doran.

At the dinner Hotah is sizing up this new arrival from Kings Landing. I think this is foreshadowing.

Those two are the ones who are going to fight.

Hotah may wind up killing both Swan and Darkstar.

You know, its seems like all 3 of those characters are pretty much expendable and don't have an effect on the main plot. But they must have some reason to exist other than to fight and kill each other off.

Maybe Darkstar is some kind of dragon bastard, or is working for Varys, or is with the Golden Company. I don't think Darkstar is some kind of minor villain like Shags that we get to see die.

There must be a reason why he is even in the story.

You would think Prince Doran would want him dead, some evil dude who hurt a little kid and valuable hostage. Doran is always talking about protecting the children from war, and the water gardens being a place of peace for kids. I don't see Darkstar as part of Doran's plots. Doran wants Darkstar dead.

I would think both Swann and Darkstar would be on Doran's hit-list.

[Coldhands' Elk]

Go go Balon Swann. But given how freakishly nice of a person he is and Darkstar's bad boy status --even though I hate the prick as much all of his detractors on this forum-- I don't think he (Swann) will live for very long into Winds of Winter, however much I want him to.

Best case scenario is that he kicks both Darkstar and Obara's (if she tries anything) butts and gets the hell back to KL.

...please GRRM? :(

[Music Loving Chemist.]

Darkstar will slay Swann, he'll be given Dawn and he'll be reborn as the 'Sword of the morning'

He's from the night, but what comes after night? Dawn.

I also believe he's on Doran's payroll. He seemed to be the most likely person who would betray Arrianne to her father.

I don't believe Doran will hurt Myrcella though, he loves children to much for that. I would think it to be likely that he will somehow involve himself in the assassination of Tommen though. It would be different for him to murder a child from afar that he does not know, rather then one he does know. After which crowning Myrcella would be so much easier.

Although, it would depend on how things go with Arrianne and Aegon.

[Été]

Darkstar will slay Swann, he'll be given Dawn and he'll be reborn as the 'Sword of the morning'

He's from the night, but what comes after night? Dawn.

Ooh... touche; point.

If Ser Balon never came within a hundred miles of Darkstar I wouldn't bat an eye about him wielding a morningstar... but GRRM goes out of his way to mention Balon's preference for a mildly niche weapon all the way back in ACoK, and several books on he's set up to fight a Dayne. That makes me think it actually was foreshadowing and that Balon vs Darkstar has been a long time coming.

That fight in itself sets up all kinds of contrasts between Darkstar and Arthur Dayne - fighting for vs against the Kingsguard, protecting vs attacking his prince's consort. I wonder why it's important. Is it just to bring Dawn back into circulation? And will Darkstar run back to Sunspear or join Arianne at Aegon's court?

[Ciazio]

Uhm, I can't remember: do we know who betrayed Arianne to Doran when she tried to crown Myrcella?

If we don't I'd point a finger to Darkstar. If it was Darkstar, this might prove that he acted according to Doran's orders.

Doran doesn't want to protect "the children" (generic) he wants to protect dornish children avoiding a war and wants vengeance for Elia's children. Doran wants fire and blood.

Given this, Darkstar might be the most dangerous man in Dorne because of what he knows: that Doran ordered Myrcella's defacement. If captured, what would he say after Qyburn's tortures? Everything. What would this cause? A war.

That's why I think that Balon won't die and that the whole hunt for the Darkstar was setted up by Doran to keep Swann out from the games. Maybe Gerold Dayne is hidden in Sunspear and the Kingsguard is chasing flies.....

ETA: this means I think that Balon won't die soon in the next book. Dead he means war, alive and chasing he means time to prepare.

[Été]

The books aren't explicit about which member of Arianne's conspiracy was working for Doran, but the consensus on the boards is "probably Darkstar".

If Darkstar is captured, Doran can simply deny all knowledge of his crimes (much like Tywin and Gregor). Cersei might not buy it, but with the Golden Company on her doorstep she simply doesn't have the resources to invade Dorne out of spite.

If Darkstar kills Balon Swann, Doran has two options: distance himself from Darkstar as above, or cover it up. Dorne is a big place; it would be very easy to claim the Ser Balon never reached Starfall, and must have been swallowed up by the desert.

Doran only risks war if he openly admits his treachery, and with Tyene and Nym maintaining a Dornish presence in KL, that's not a move that seems to be on his agenda.

[The Sunset King]

Another showdown at the ToJ would be an awesome prologue, I definately want this to happen!

The definitely would be an intriguing prologue.

What precisely is the nature of Darkstar's goal remains murky but it is quite plausible that Obara, as the most ardently militaristic and aggressive Sand Snake, will assist him in disposing of Swann. Things look suspiciously like Darkstar is involved (maybe receiving help) in laying some type of trap tied to his scheme or the scheme of some patron.

[BranRaven]

Didn't Myrcella go to Dorne with a Myrcella-look-a-like cousin? Maybe they swtched the real one with her little clone?

back to the topic, I also really like Balon and I'm intrigued by Darkstar. So if anyone has to die here I'm hoping Obara bites the dust and Balon somehow escapes Dorne

[Ciazio]

If Darkstar is captured, Doran can simply deny all knowledge of his crimes (much like Tywin and Gregor). Cersei might not buy it, but with the Golden Company on her doorstep she simply doesn't have the resources to invade Dorne out of spite.

If Darkstar kills Balon Swann, Doran has two options: distance himself from Darkstar as above, or cover it up. Dorne is a big place; it would be very easy to claim the Ser Balon never reached Starfall, and must have been swallowed up by the desert.

Looking to the matter in this way it looks like the whole "Hunt for the Darkstar" is pointless. Doran never lose, so why insert it in the books? Only to get rid of a Kingsguard? 3 chapters to kill one knight..... This ain't GRRMartinesque :drunk:

I don't think that Doran would risk to raise even the smallest suspicion but who knows.

[HopeForSpring]

Is it really the consensus really that Darkstar is the informant or is just that the folks who think that's unlikely give up sooner? :)

I'm with the camp that Doran thinks Darkstar is dangerous because he knows what really happened and isn't interested in playing ball.

Balon Swann is the least odious of the active kingsgaurd. It'll be sad if he goes down, but I'm undecided on which would move the plot in a more interesting way.

[Été]

Looking to the matter in this way it looks like the whole "Hunt for the Darkstar" is pointless. Doran never lose, so why insert it in the books? Only to get rid of a Kingsguard? 3 chapters to kill one knight..... This ain't GRRMartinesque :drunk:

I think it's a plot contrivance to drag the Daynes into the main action. They've been touched upon too many times to be completely incidental; from ADWD and the latest SSM, it's pretty clear we have a lot to learn about Arthur and Ashara, but this close to endgame, I don't see how any of the POVs in a position to visit Starfall.

Is it really the consensus really that Darkstar is the informant or is just that the folks who think that's unlikely give up sooner? :)

A good point well made. :) I haven't seen much suspicion cast on any of Arianne's other confederates.