Capon Breath Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Is there an easy way to copy / paste all of the text of previous Heresy threads into 1 place (prob a word doc) so i can ever actually stand a chance of reading them all & catching up! All helpful hints gratefully received ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 @UnCat --IRL, of course, many empires rose and fell: Minoan, Persian, Carthaginian, Greek, Roman, etc., etc. I mention Rome because it is so familiar, but also because of the waves of barbarian invasions that gutted an empire weakened by the constant competition among the powerful to become emperor, disease, famine, the decay of its military etc., etc. Rome also had about 300 really good years, from about 100 B.C.E. to 200 or so A.C.E., which reminds me of the Targaryen reign.Now if only Westeros made as much progress as the Romans . . .Y'all are forgetting the Disney version of the horn -- i.e. the one from the Narnia books, which could summon the kids from the real world to Narnia. It had a name and everything, but I can't be arsed to look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Did you emphasize rose because you see a connection between the rose that calls Tam Lin (i.e., Elfen magic) and the blue rose growing from a chink in the ice that Dany sees in her vision, and which most posters believe symbolizes Jon? Could it be that Jon is the signal that calls the WW/Sidhe? Will his "death" be the thing that signals an attack on the Wall by the WW themselves? Of course, if Jon is the signal that calls the NW, is that proof of the connection between the Starks and the Others?I emphasised the rose first because in the tale of Bael the Bard, its Bael who takes the rose and then the daughter, carrying her off for a year and a day before letting her return with her son (which is so obviously a classic changeling story its practically shouting itself from the highest towers of Winterfell), and secondly because Jon is therefore the son - several times removed - of the changeling, hence the significance of the blue rose, proclaiming his Sidhe blood.As I said in introducing the story of Tam Lin, the two stories are not one and the same, thinly disguised or otherwise, but there's enough there to be sure of the background which GRRM is drawing on in creating this aspect of the Song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Y'all are forgetting the Disney version of the horn -- i.e. the one from the Narnia books, which could summon the kids from the real world to Narnia. It had a name and everything, but I can't be arsed to look it up.It was the horn of Queen Susan, I don't remember if having any formal name, but it was of carved ivory - an oliphant horn exactly like the Horn of Roland, which is presumably where C.S. Lewis got the idea from and perhaps also GRRM in his turn drew on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Is there an easy way to copy / paste all of the text of previous Heresy threads into 1 place (prob a word doc) so i can ever actually stand a chance of reading them all & catching up! All helpful hints gratefully received !Not that I know of, I did copy and paste all of the Old Nan stories from Heresy 6 into a Word document and that was hard enough work. In all seriousness though, apart from Old Nan's stuff, the really exciting stuff gets going in Heresy 9 or Heresy 10 when we first picked up the Sidhe reference and so much started slotting into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotweaselsoup Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Perhaps that's the point; either [a] the Nights King fell because the horn had been broken and he couldn't summon the Sidhe to his aid, or he was defeated before they could come and Joruman then broke it to ensure it couldn't be sounded again.Inevitably this means that not only will it find its way back to Jon but in the meantime somebody will have fixed it. :cool4:Wouldn't it be funny if the horn ends up back at the Wall, and then - because it is so unassuming looking - some poor black brother grabs it and sounds it three times because he sees an Other skulking about? Oopsie daisy!These magic Horns of Summoning seem to need three blasts to get the joojoo to work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotweaselsoup Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not that I know of, I did copy and paste all of the Old Nan stories from Heresy 6 into a Word document and that was hard enough work. In all seriousness though, apart from Old Nan's stuff, the really exciting stuff gets going in Heresy 9 or Heresy 10 when we first picked up the Sidhe reference and so much started slotting into place.Personally, I think a lot of good stuff was covered before that as well. It's pretty interesting (to me, anyway) to see the evolution of the ideas, as well as the constant spiralling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Wouldn't it be funny if the horn ends up back at the Wall, and then - because it is so unassuming looking - some poor black brother grabs it and sounds it three times because he sees an Other skulking about? Oopsie daisy!These magic Horns of Summoning seem to need three blasts to get the joojoo to work...Its an interesting point and quite true, one blast is never enough. I've always thought that from a practical point of view blowing the horn three times to warn of the Others was a bit impractical - we've all seen it happen, sentry blows once, puts horn to his lips to blow a second time only to topple off the wall with an arrow through his throat.Now blowing the horn three times to summon the Others/Sidhe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotweaselsoup Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Its an interesting point and quite true, one blast is never enough. I've always thought that from a practical point of view blowing the horn three times to warn of the Others was a bit impractical - we've all seen it happen, sentry blows once, puts horn to his lips to blow a second time only to topple off the wall with an arrow through his throat.Now blowing the horn three times to summon the Others/Sidhe...I wonder if the Horn of Winter freezes the horn blower from the inside out, in an "ice for blood, blood for ice" way? That way, "no mortal man" could sound it, but if your blood was part ice already...(oh how we love our dun-dun-dunnn ellipses :lol: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I emphasised the rose first because in the tale of Bael the Bard, its Bael who takes the rose and then the daughter, carrying her off for a year and a day before letting her return with her son (which is so obviously a classic changeling story its practically shouting itself from the highest towers of Winterfell), and secondly because Jon is therefore the son - several times removed - of the changeling, hence the significance of the blue rose, proclaiming his Sidhe blood.As I said in introducing the story of Tam Lin, the two stories are not one and the same, thinly disguised or otherwise, but there's enough there to be sure of the background which GRRM is drawing on in creating this aspect of the Song.Bael, of course. The blue rose has quite a history in regard to the Starks. There's Bael's story, then Lyanna gets her wreath of blue roses, then gets carried away in an inversion of Bael's story, and finally there's the blue rose symbolizing Jon, who is a changeling himself. The infant king was taken away and replaced with the bastard son of different parents, who may in turn be replaced my the adult king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Of Mid Afternoon Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Entirely 100% off topic...I saw the westeros sidepanel bit on GRRM's blog about "World of..." and other things... I read a few surrounding blog posts, and chanced upon his fundraising post for some wolf sancturary in NewMexico, ... that's all good and well, who doesnt want to help animal sanctuaries... but his post closed with this If we raise enough money, maybe I'll let some Starks live a little longer...This supports my baseless gut-feeling theory that we won't be seeing Rickon on mainland Westeros ever again.We are running low on Starks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Perhaps that's the point; either [a] the Nights King fell because the horn had been broken and he couldn't summon the Sidhe to his aid, or he was defeated before they could come and Joruman then broke it to ensure it couldn't be sounded again.Inevitably this means that not only will it find its way back to Jon but in the meantime somebody will have fixed it. :cool4:Has anyone found any evidence to support that the Children of the Forrest are to summer, as the Others are to winter? In the sense that perhaps they're custodians of the seasons? Maybe the horn of winter isn't so much to call the others, but to voluntarily hand over the season to winter, in which there is probably an equivalent that the Others use. I remember there being really weird concession that The Children Of the Forrest gave the first men but I can't remember what it was, some sort of item. Perhaps they surrendered the duty of calling winter to the First Men, creating the "Kings of Winter'.We know that the Night's King was overthrown by a Stark and a King Beyond the wall from being to friendly with the Others, and supposedly doing horrible things at the wall. If his Horn was stolen by Joramund, and then hidden for not understanding the balance of the seasons, or not caring; the seasons could no longer be handled, and they would grow out of whack. Perhaps not Winterless, but more Summer heavy like what we've seen with multi-year summers and as we've recently seen up to 10 years.Obviously the above has lot of holes:-The creation of the wall isn't covered at all. Could it have been created in the same pact with the children?- Was there a pact after the Long Night when the First Men defeated the others?- Could the Night's King have started the Long Night, or perhaps just be the reason that the pact was broken and why they're angry.-Why are the others suddenly appearing again?-It seems like Valyria has to be involved in this somehow. Perhaps prolonging the seasons with sorcery, and only now, long after the doom, is winter recovering enough for the Others to return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Raymun Fossoway Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 hello all. I have been following off and on for since the thread started. I am wondering if the trama the starks are going through could this be bringing strength to the others. kinda of like the return of the dragons made the wildfire stronger. if this is a repost i appologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Interesting bit about having to blow the horn three times. So it could mean that originally, hearing the three blasts meant somebody called them, so naturally the NW or whomever would take up defensive positions. The same response exists and the horn still warns the defenders against the Others. The difference is who blows the horn. Before, perhaps the Kings of Winter blowing the Horn of Winter. Now, The Night's Watch blowing a normal horn.Also, here is a model of the Other used at the end of season 2. It looks decent to me there, if only they did better CGI to convey that reflective ice armor.http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ww1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodymime Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Don't know if it's been mentioned but there's also the horn of Heimdal from norse mythology that he'll blow at the beginning of ragnorak. He's also known as the watcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Along with the three horn blasts, we learn of three occurances of the blowing of the horn of herrock; I feel that GRRM had us witness three blasts of that horn for a reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harland Flint Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Thinking about Ragnarok and the blowing of the horn. Perhaps the characters of SoI&F have it around the wrong way. The Horn of Winter is blown to signify when the Others will cross the Wall.It's possible that the "pact" the Last Hero made between the Others and CotF was that they would share the seasons and the land. Summer is the time for Men to reign while the Others must wait beyond the Wall. When Winter comes, the Others can march beyond the Wall and reclaim the lands they held during the Long Night. The Men who guard the divide between the Land of Always Winter (which always belongs to the Others) and the Land South of the Wall (which only belongs to the Others in winter) signal the onset of winter with three blasts from the Horn of Winter. When summer comes the Others return to the Land of Always Winter and Men rule again until next winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Snake No. 9 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Entirely 100% off topic...I saw the westeros sidepanel bit on GRRM's blog about "World of..." and other things... I read a few surrounding blog posts, and chanced upon his fundraising post for some wolf sancturary in NewMexico, ... that's all good and well, who doesnt want to help animal sanctuaries... but his post closed with this If we raise enough money, maybe I'll let some Starks live a little longer...This supports my baseless guy-feeling theory that we won't be seeing Rickon on mainland Westeros ever again.We are running low on Starks....Buy the book or we'll shoot this dog . . .No killing Rickon. No, no, no, no, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncat Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Is there an easy way to copy / paste all of the text of previous Heresy threads into 1 place (prob a word doc) so i can ever actually stand a chance of reading them all & catching up! All helpful hints gratefully received !Never looked into it. But I'm affraid we'll all have to keep running :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Also, here is a model of the Other used at the end of season 2. It looks decent to me there, if only they did better CGI to convey that reflective ice armor.http://winteriscomin...2012/06/ww1.jpgOh tasty - looks very weirwood-like to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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