Has Martin ever remarked about Dany?

[Wouter]

She has no plan for rebuilding the area and she shows herself nearly impervious to learning anything that could help her.

While I'm not arguing Dany had an entire rebuilding plan in her head in advance, she did actually attempt to rebuild. Olive grooves, trading pact with the lamb men, small concessions to the local notables etc. It is due to the actions of Yunkai and co that her plan has fallen into the water.

Dany also does listen to her advisors most of the time, contrary to Cersei.

[Garlan Marius]

You gave the answer yourself. It's the main reason (besides maybe, knowledge of dragons) that will make Tyrion so valuable to her. He knows the Seven Kingdoms intimately, being a bookish and well-travelled man. Moreover, Tyrion knows so many important players personally: Cersei, Varys, Littlefinger, a few of the Tyrells, Jon Snow and Jon Connington, "Aegon", Bran and Sansa,...

And he has at least good working knowledge of the Martells and Stannis as well, plus he's visited the Wall and met rangers (besides Jon).

Tyrion could be a great advisor for her, which is probably exactly what will happen.

Tyrion has no reason to work with Dany toward her goals, and she has no reason to trust him.

[Wouter]

So what you're saying is that Dany will be allowed a free ride out of Essos because of her dragons. That GRRM will write an easy way out for her and absolve her of all responsibility for the atrocities she has committed? I don't buy that. I doubt he would have taken the time to write these events if that was the plan.

What's a "free ride"? Dany had great difficulties in ADWD, and she did not end it in a great situation either. If Dany uses her dragons to create "blood and fire" (which she will have to do to impress the Dothraki and to defeat her opponents in Slaver's bay for good) then that would arguably be more "atrocities", depending on your POV.

I do think GRRM will let the slavers fail and fall, big time (both because he was written them as cartoonish bunglers and he is obviously not pro-slavery himself) and Volantis clearly is on the menu as well. After all, he has been building up the entire situation through ASOS and ADWD so I expect a pay off. For all that people dislike her, Dany is still one of the protagonists even if she may be at odds with other protagonists (though probably not with Tyrion, in due time).

[Wouter]

Tyrion has no reason to work with Dany toward her goals, and she has no reason to trust him.

Then Tyrion apparently travelled all the way to Slaver's bay for "no reason". I thought revenge on his family and getting CR with royal approval would already be enough.

As for Dany, Tyrion will give her reason to trust him. He's a valuable asset and he is likely to prove his loyalty already in the battle of Meereen.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

What's a "free ride"? Dany had great difficulties in ADWD, and she did not end it in a great situation either. If Dany uses her dragons to create "blood and fire" (which she will have to do to impress the Dothraki and to defeat her opponents in Slaver's bay for good) then that would arguably be more "atrocities", depending on your POV.

I do think GRRM will let the slavers fail and fall, big time (both because he was written them as cartoonish bunglers and he is obviously not pro-slavery himself) and Volantis clearly is on the menu as well. After all, he has been building up the entire situation through ASOS and ADWD so I expect a pay off. For all that people dislike her, Dany is still one of the protagonists even if she may be at odds with other protagonists (though probably not with Tyrion, in due time).

Her being a protagonist is a matter of opinion. She's shown Bond villain levels of incompetence.

Dragons can't make everything all better. She set about trying to liberate a continent for practice and now she has created a huge mess because she didn't have a plan. She thought everything would magically come together and it hasn't. That's what the last 3 books have been about, good intentions are not enough. Wanting to liberate people and actually doing so and ensuring they remain free are two wildly different things. Dany has failed miserably at liberating these people. The only ones who remain free are the ones in the city that she is occupying. That or the ones in the friggin death camp outside her gates.

You honestly think GRRM spent 3 books building this up just for her to say, "Hey my dragon lets me ride it now. I win." Never mind the fact that 2 of her dragons are terrorizing the city and she still has no control over Drogon.

[Wouter]

Her being a protagonist is a matter of opinion. She's shown Bond villain levels of incompetence.

She is one of the characters with the most POV chapters and pages, quite a bit of the books is told from her perspective. That alone would seem to make her a protagonist.

Dragons can't make everything all better. She set about trying to liberate a continent for practice and now she has created a huge mess because she didn't have a plan.

Dany never did this "for practice". She did it, on impulse, because she was appalled by the Unsullied "training". The "practice" thing seems to be fans thinking of Martin's comments (as a writer, he did intend the slaver's bay passage of Dany as practice of sorts) and projecting those comments on Dany's motives. She stayed because she understood it would all quickly fall without her presence (and assorted forces associated with her).

You honestly think GRRM spent 3 books building this up just for her to say, "Hey my dragon lets me ride it now. I win." Never mind the fact that 2 of her dragons are terrorizing the city and she still has no control over Drogon.

Dany, just like the Starks, will have to start winning at some point (and yes, the dragons will come into play - they were indeed not build up for 5 books for nothing) and since Martin is probably not planning to either kill her off in Essos or let her stay there for 5 more books I indeed think Dany will move like a whirlwind through Essos in TWOW. She will still have plenty of problems, not least with the Ironborn which may take (some of) her dragons and also want to take her.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

She stayed because she needed to learn to rule. She stayed because she created a huge mess of 2 cities and didn't realize it until she got to the 3rd.

Just because she is a main character doesn't mean she is the good guy. Jaime has plenty of PoV chapters, as does Cersei.

So Essos will sort itself out because you'd like to see her in westeros? That screams of avoiding the real issues.

[Wouter]

So Essos will sort itself out because you'd like to see her in westeros? That screams of avoiding the real issues.

Essos will be solved the way Martin wants it to be solved. And that Dany will go to Westeros is someting Martin has said quite a few times "everything will come back together". Martin has made it clear that Essos is a sideshow as far as he is concerned, meant as a decor for some westerosi characters to be "parked" for a while and to grow or be reborn like Tyrion, and that Westeros is the meat of the story.

So, it's not me who wants to see Dany in Westeros, it's the author, and many of his readers, particularly those who want the series to be finished in a reasonable time.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

Essos will be solved the way Martin wants it to be solved. And that Dany will go to Westeros is someting Martin has said quite a few times "everything will come back together". Martin has made it clear that Essos is a sideshow as far as he is concerned, meant as a decor for some westerosi characters to be "parked" for a while and to grow or be reborn like Tyrion, and that Westeros is the meat of the story.

So, it's not me who wants to see Dany in Westeros, it's the author, and many of his readers, particularly those who want the series to be finished in a reasonable time.

And we're supposed to forget all of the horrible things she has caused because of this? That makes no sense. She may go back to westeros, but it won't be as a hero. If she doesn't definitely wrap up Essos she'll be doing it with all the might of the continent following her.

[Sevumar]

She stayed because she needed to learn to rule. She stayed because she created a huge mess of 2 cities and didn't realize it until she got to the 3rd.

And it's quite understandable that the people in Dany's queenship learning lab would resent their role in that development. The people of Slaver's Bay have plenty of reasons to see Dany as an enemy, even if the goal of ending slavery does have some merit.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

And it's quite understandable that the people in Dany's queenship learning lab would resent their role in that development. The people of Slaver's Bay have plenty of reasons to see Dany as an enemy, even if the goal of ending slavery does have some merit.

It does have merit, but it takes a lot more than an impulsive girl with no plan to pull off an operation like this. :P

[Kanon]

And it's quite understandable that the people in Dany's queenship learning lab would resent their role in that development. The people of Slaver's Bay have plenty of reasons to see Dany as an enemy, even if the goal of ending slavery does have some merit.

But the people of slavers bay love her, the majority of their population is composed by slaves and her popularity with them is overwhelming (see Tyrions chapters in Volantis)

[total1402]

All of her enemies is every city on the continent. She's still expected to declare war on Volantis and then will be obligated to do so in order to pay a sellsword with Pentos. All the while, half the continent sits at her door ready to lay siege, the dothraki are even in on it, there is a plague that she helped spread running through her city, and those not dying of the plague are being murdered in the streets.

Sure Dany can leave, but no one else is leaving Mereen due to the massive army in the front and the fleet blocking her bay. If she leaves advisors, what's to say it wont turn out exactly like it did before in Yunkaii and Astapor? She did such a great job making sure those stayed free, didn't she?

No, this kind of thing takes a long term commitment. Otherwise they'll all be back in chains and any who dared fight back will be tortured and flayed for insolence, the moment Dany leaves.

Dragons may be a trump card, but they don't feed people, tend for the sick, enforce peace in the streets, govern and write laws, or any of the other hundreds of responsibilities that she has earned herself.

I know. She will crush them all. The Dothraki will kneel before her. Volantis will rise and declare her the messiah. The Yunkai, Ghiscari and Qartheen will be conquered.

Once the above is completed she will have the only army and fleet left in Essos.

Not if she frees every slave in Essos and the majority population takes charge. Without external aid the deposed ruling slaver class can never take power again.

No one woman can do that in an Empire anyway. Most of that is handled at the provisional and district level. Plus shes done a pretty good job considering that Martin gave her possibly the worst city to govern because it had nothing other than the slave trade to its economy. Other cities are easier because they actually trade and she can open them to Mereenese trade this solving the trade embargo placed on Mereen.

[brashcandy]

And we're supposed to forget all of the horrible things she has caused because of this? That makes no sense. She may go back to westeros, but it won't be as a hero. If she doesn't definitely wrap up Essos she'll be doing it with all the might of the continent following her.

Dany made some mistakes along the way, but her campaign in Slaver's Bay is a worthy fight. She has to go back to Westeros, but I do believe we'll see her defeat the Harpies and leave a stable government in charge before she does so. Also, she never expected to go back to Westeros as a hero; she's going as a conqueror. However, given what looks to be an imminent invasion by the Others, she may end up with some heroic status after all if she can help defeat them.

[Kanon]

It does have merit, but it takes a lot more than an impulsive girl with no plan to pull off an operation like this. :P

At one point GRRM want the series to be a single trilogy, with Dany only arriving in westeros in the last book. What we actually got was 6 books (DwD and FFC was suposed to be a single book). So ts safe to say that she will go to westeros in WoW and the second half of her war there will be concluded in DoS.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

She's done a horrible job. Tens of thousands are dead from mistakes she made, not just battles. This child is responsible for more death than the entire war of the five kings, but we call this "a few mistakes"? That's ludicrous.

You guys make it sound so simple for her to just conquer a continent and walk away. We're five books in and still have no ruler of Westeros, yet she has an entire continent that JUST declared war and she's supposed to bang it out and be done with it in the course of a few chapters?

[E-Ro]

Dany will never hold power in westeros, if she goes there she will quickly die. The north has had its full of targs, and they are tired of southern rule. If she tries to take the north Bran and jon will make her sorry.

[Sevumar]

But the people of slavers bay love her, the majority of their population is composed by slaves and her popularity with them is overwhelming (see Tyrions chapters in Volantis)

I don't think we can estimate the percentage of the population that were slaves in any of the Slaver's Bay cities based on the figures from Volantis. There's good reason to think that there's a large chunk of the population in Slaver's Bay that are freeborn members of middle and lower classes.

[CoolGirlsMurderFriend]

I don't think we can estimate the percentage of the population that were slaves in any of the Slaver's Bay cities based on the figures from Volantis. There's good reason to think that there's a large chunk of the population in Slaver's Bay that are freeborn members of middle and lower classes.

Not even that, based on a few offhanded comments lol.

[brashcandy]

She's done a horrible job. Tens of thousands are dead from mistakes she made, not just battles. This child is responsible for more death than the entire war of the five kings, but we call this "a few mistakes"? That's ludicrous.

I think you attributing blame to Daenerys for the actions of others. And saying that she's responsible for more death than the war of the 5 kings is what is ludicrous.

You guys make it sound so simple for her to just conquer a continent and walk away. We're five books in and still have no ruler of Westeros, yet she has an entire continent that JUST declared war and she's supposed to bang it out and be done with it in the course of a few chapters?

1. She did not conquer a whole continent, neither has the entire continent declared war on her. 2. As I noted, she would be leaving some kind of stable government in place in all likelihood.