Why did they feel the need to change so much in TV for Season 2?

[LordofWinter]

For example, one change that I read about was that Cat and Robb did not learn of Bran's and Rickon's "deaths." This made actions that were dubious in the books completely and utterly stupid in the TV show. Robb can no longer

blame his grief for seeking the comfort of a

strange woman, which leads to him feeling

honor bound to marry her. Cat no longer has the

excuse of grief for her treasonous action of

freeing Jaime for the more-than-longshot of

getting her girls back. Now the two of them just

look like idiots.

Well they changed so much of this part of the story it's barely recognizable. Robb's running around with Jeyne/Talisa for what appears to be at the minimum a fortnight before he exclaims "I don't want to marry the Frey girl" and proceeds to knock boots with her. Cat is also nowhere near Riverrun and is instead at Robb's supposedly moving camp when he says I do. How could she (Catelyn Stark the walking, breathing reminder of duty, honour, and family) allow this? And if she can't be expected to control her son the King than why the flaming FUCK isn't she back at Winterfell with her sins who do need her?

1-she let Jaime go for no good reason and therefore cannot judge any of Robb's actions(apparently)

2-Only the old gods, and GrrM know.

[Garlan Marius]

Obviously, D+D hate Cat and Dany and want them respectively to come across as stupid/ whiny.

[Jolene Brown]

I'm actually happy I saw episode 4, Talisa's introduction, before deciding to read the books (that was the episode that prompted me to read the books, because the level of sexual violence in the show was getting to be too much for me and I was thinking about reading the books instead of watching - I can take more in print than onscreen) because I know that Talisa felt wrong to me as a character even without knowing that it was a big change from the written series.

Robb/Talisa is the storyline that is most devastating to me, because it is such an alteration, so unnecessarily, of something that worked so well originally, and it's not only being a purist - the moment I saw Talisa's scene with the amputation, before reading any of the series, I was like, there's something off about this character, she doesn't feel right. The quote people have brought up a lot about GRRM saying he doesn't like the peasant girl sassing the prince, because the prince would throw her in the stocks, applies so much here. Talisa IS that girl (I guess technically she's probably not a peasant, but she's presenting herself as one); she just doesn't fit into GRRM's world.

[Winter Is Overdue]

The Talisa thing bugs the ever living hell out of me. I still can't find any decent reason for the change, and it's so much of a change from the written that it's killed the majority of my enthusiasm for the series. If I was able to ask D & D anything, it would be "Why? What the hell were you drinking when you came up with this change?" I hate it. It's too "Hollywood" and not Westeros. I cannot stand when script writers dumb things down for viewers.

Something's been rattling around in my head for the last couple of days regarding this Talisa/Jeyne thing. Would this be a pretty strong indication that the possible Jeyne pregnancy theory just isn't going to happen? I apologize in advance if this has been discussed in another thread. I've tried searching, but I haven't found anything that fits my question.

[LordofWinter]

And of course, Jaime is a monster!beast, so the redemption plot is off the rails, too. Suddenly he's a Lannister-killing maniac.

And Jon Snow is now a complete moron. Who can whip Qhorin Halfhand's ass with one hand tied behind his back.

This season was a mess.

Oh yea I forgot how Jaime so casually(and pointlessly) added kinslayer to his resume.

And I'm guessing budget reasons *cough*bullshit excuses*cough* will be given for the absence of Ghost .

[danm_999]

The Talisa thing bugs the ever living hell out of me. I still can't find any decent reason for the change, and it's so much of a change from the written that it's killed the majority of my enthusiasm for the series. If I was able to ask D & D anything, it would be "Why? What the hell were you drinking when you came up with this change?" I hate it. It's too "Hollywood" and not Westeros. I cannot stand when script writers dumb things down for viewers.

Something's been rattling around in my head for the last couple of days regarding this Talisa/Jeyne thing. Would this be a pretty strong indication that the possible Jeyne pregnancy theory just isn't going to happen? I apologize in advance if this has been discussed in another thread. I've tried searching, but I haven't found anything that fits my question.

I'd have to guess it's because in the books, Robb appears in person at the beginning of book 2, dissapears into the Westerlands, and then shows up again midway through book 3 with a wife. In a written medium, that's fine. We don't expect to see every character at every stage, and it's enough we hear about Robb's "goings on" from Catelyn at Riverrun to remind us of the character.

In a TV series, Robb dissapearing for over a season and reappearing with a love interest that only develops because of a piece of news (Bran and Rickon's deaths) that TV Robb hasn't even received yet, doesn't really work. TV is a medium where you need to see things rather than hear about them. It'd get very clunky if Robb was only an offscreen character for most of the season, and if we hear about him fighting battles, the audience is going to ask the pretty logical question, why aren't we watching one of our main characters kicking ass?

So Robb's romantic interest needs to be pushed forward, since Robb needs to be seen. This means it can't occur in the Westerlands in book 3, and it can't occur because of something that happens towards the end of Season 2, it needs to be on slow boil throughout season 2.

As to your second question, I'd say it doesn't confirm or deny it either way. That Jeyne is a Westerling is not really relevant to whether or not she's secretly pregnant and being protected by the Blackfish. With a little re-writing, this can be Talisa with the Blackfish carrying Robb's heir.

[Jolene Brown]

Also, the sassy peasant thing applies even more to Arya/Tywin. In the books, the one time Arya speaks up to Roose Bolton he basically says that he could rip out her tongue for her insolence but just this one time he'll let it go. In the series, you have Arya and Tywin as BFFs. It's annoying.

I understand why they needed to have Robb onscreen more, but there were a lot of other ways to do it, and there was no need to change the storyline/Jeyne/Talisa's character so drastically.

[Faint]

They were afraid to cast Robb Stark into a minor role, Daenerys into a less seen role, and Davos Seaworth into a major role. Needless to say, they were wrong on all counts.

[Lady Arianne Martell]

It's just not gratifying to fans of the book series.

The Jamie change was ridiculous and completely stupid.

The Harrenhal changes were so irritating.

Everything. UGH.

[Burning Eyes]

This thread http://asoiaf.wester...r-bryan-cogman/,

will help explain the thought process of the producers of Game of Thrones and why they felt they needed to make the changes they did for season 2. It contains a link to and some quoted material from an online interview of Bryan Cogman (the story editor for GoT). I understand the need for change when it comes to translating stories of different mediums ie books to tv/movies, but I feel that some of the changes made on GoT were executed poorly and some were even unnecessary.

[Khal Porno]

I'm a fan of the books and the show. I understand why they've made the changes they've made and for the most part I like them. I didn't think Dany's storyline in Qarth was all that interesting in the books, so I'm glad they livened it up for the show, and I absolutely HATED how I felt Robb was given the short-shrift in the books, so I am very pleased to see he is a more important part of the show. I also felt that the Jeyne Westerling story was a bit silly - and I don't believe for a minute that Robb hadn't been involved with her romantically prior to finding out about Bran's and Rickon's deaths. If that actually had played out the way Robb told Catelyn it did, then ugh...I'm sorry, that's just ridiculous. So I quite like Talisa and I look forward to seeing their relationship develop in season three.

[Dragon greyscale]

Not good enough I'm afraid. They only had ten hours the first season and somehow still managed to stay closer to the real story than they did in the second.

Not good enough of a counterargument either. Different books, different rules. In book 1, you start out in winterfell and introduce all the major characters and their relationships (+dany). Then the journey starts. That's a lot easier than AcoK. Five kings, three new locations, several new important characters PLUS all the stuff from book 1.

You might have a point if we drop the books as the beginning and end of the seasons In other words, if they follow the book to the letter and just see where they'll end up after 10 episodes, it could be like S1. Not if they want to end up at the end of acok though.

[Javi Marcos]

This thread reminds me why in a lot of webs you can read "Do not enter in Westeros.org, it's full of book purists that hates every inch of the show in a ridiculous level".

Why so much changes? Well, it's preeeeeeetty easy:

Reek + Weasel Soup + HoU: Unfilmable

Dany: Deeply boring in the books. A bit boring in TV, too

Robb's love on screen: This is TV, not a book. Half the people here doesn't realize it

Talisa and not Jeyne: Jeyne has 3 lines in the book and seems boring. Only someone who believes theories like that she is pregnant and escaped with the Blackfish would complain about it.

[Monty501]

Reek + Weasel Soup + HoU: Unfilmable

How?

They could have made the Jeyne storyline dramatic. She did plenty, but we just didn't see because there was no POV character there.

[Gloer]

I find it funny how people complain about the differences between the play and the book. I listened the books as audio books and I am very satisfied with the adaptaion on scren.

Obviously I fell asleep and slept through the boring parts with Jayne Westerling, Dany wasting her time and all this and that. And those bits were also cut and straighteed up in the screen play. Well done!

Especially genial was the way they put the Harrenhal storyline in order. In the books GRRM gives the impression he has no idea what and where the story is supposed to go with Arya Gendry Harrenhal etc havind unneccessarily many changes of control of the place. None of which mean anything for the plot.

On the otherhand now we know how formidable Tywin is as a strategist. He just sits and waites until Robb is too far away to get to KL in time to help while he arrives just in time to crush Stannis. All the while he has a chit chat with Arya making him feel very humane and likable man. Not a cardboard villain that many book purists have wanted to imagine him. In the TV show Tywin is the king in all but title as Pycelle says later. Much more impressive than in the books.

[dhourofdwolf]

What I dislike most about season 2 is the fact that the mystical almost psychic nature of the direwolves and how they almost shape sift into the Starks has been almost ignored. Apart from VERY brief looks at Grey Wind menacing Jaime in his cage, at the start in the Battle of Oxcross, and Summer and Shaggy finding the dying Maester Luwin, the importance of the wolves has been downplayed. In COK Grey Wind found the track that the Northern Army slipped past the Lannister scouts and allowed Robb to win the battle, Summer and Shaggy killed the Ironmen guards that allowed Bran and Rickon to escape Winterfell, Ghost found the Dragonglass weapons hidden by the unknown Black Watch brother, and most importantly Ghost helped John kill Quorhin Half Hand.

The books make the direwolves are central to almost everything that involves the Starks. To have their role downplayed is well...VEXING

[Chaircat Meow]

I find it funny how people complain about the differences between the play and the book. I listened the books as audio books and I am very satisfied with the adaptaion on scren.

Obviously I fell asleep and slept through the boring parts with Jayne Westerling, Dany wasting her time and all this and that. And those bits were also cut and straighteed up in the screen play. Well done!

Especially genial was the way they put the Harrenhal storyline in order. In the books GRRM gives the impression he has no idea what and where the story is supposed to go with Arya Gendry Harrenhal etc havind unneccessarily many changes of control of the place. None of which mean anything for the plot.

On the otherhand now we know how formidable Tywin is as a strategist. He just sits and waites until Robb is too far away to get to KL in time to help while he arrives just in time to crush Stannis. All the while he has a chit chat with Arya making him feel very humane and likable man. Not a cardboard villain that many book purists have wanted to imagine him. In the TV show Tywin is the king in all but title as Pycelle says later. Much more impressive than in the books.

Dude, what's wrong with you.

First, its not a play, it's a tv series. Bit of a difference.

There was no Jeyne Westerling in the second book and we definitely see more of her in the show than in the third book, where she is a minor character. So nothing has been cut and straightened out. Your point is just pure nonesense.

Why does Harrenhal changing hands bother you so much. It's done so Arya can pull the Weasel Soup stuff, among other things, as well as to show she's so wary and damaged she doesn't automatically trust her own bannermen (clever her) and finally to introduce Roose Bolton. I don't mind that change myself but it doesn't hurt the plot or show GrrM doesn't know what he is doing.

Arya has no story on the show. In the books, Arya looks into the heart of darkness, becomes a helpless mouse and re-asserts herself by killing, eventually taking a life herself, personally. Its all about death and the loss of identity, major themes of Arya's story in the books. The show leaves the setting and many of the characters in place but splices the original story with the Tywin scenes which remove Arya's suffering and helplessness so that her relation with Jacqen lacks resonance. Moreover, its the Tywin-Arya story that goes nowhere and doesn't advance the plot. So I don't understand your point and don't consider your criticism very sensible to be honest.

And would I right in thinking that you are either a 'very humane likable man' (which Tywin actually isn't on the show) or you are a cardboard villain? That's just totally silly. He's not a cardboard villain in the books, he's extremely calculated about violence and brutality and many readers think he is a good ruler and did a good job in the circumstances in which he found his house. But he was a very cold man, as some people are. That's not cardboard.

[Chaircat Meow]

I'm a fan of the books and the show. I understand why they've made the changes they've made and for the most part I like them. I didn't think Dany's storyline in Qarth was all that interesting in the books, so I'm glad they livened it up for the show, and I absolutely HATED how I felt Robb was given the short-shrift in the books, so I am very pleased to see he is a more important part of the show. I also felt that the Jeyne Westerling story was a bit silly - and I don't believe for a minute that Robb hadn't been involved with her romantically prior to finding out about Bran's and Rickon's deaths. If that actually had played out the way Robb told Catelyn it did, then ugh...I'm sorry, that's just ridiculous. So I quite like Talisa and I look forward to seeing their relationship develop in season three.

I think he probably was attracted to her before he hears about Bran and Rickon. He would have seen a lot of her, because she was nursing him. But he, you know, restrained himself until he heard about his brothers. He also had a fever. On the show he's practically deranged (he can't even remember why he needed to cross at the Twins) and extremely childish and petulant.

[Chaircat Meow]

This thread reminds me why in a lot of webs you can read "Do not enter in Westeros.org, it's full of book purists that hates every inch of the show in a ridiculous level".

Talisa and not Jeyne: Jeyne has 3 lines in the book and seems boring. Only someone who believes theories like that she is pregnant and escaped with the Blackfish would complain about it.

You actually find Talisa interesting on the show? It's just about the cheesiest, shallowest love story ever. It would be more bearable if she only had three lines.

[comandante]

I like to believe that season 2 was a test. They wanted to see how we (book fans) react to major changes. Well everybody knows how we reacted and know they'll make the season 3 just like the season 1; a loyal adaptation with minimal changes. Well that's what i hope actually. I don't want to watch an idiot Jon Snow anymore.