So you all think Jamie is the Valonquar...

[David C. Hunter]

I believed it will be Stannis, based on the evidence someone said in a thread a while back. Stannis is a little brother...

[All Men Must Rhyme]

One of the reasons I assumed it would be Jaime is because of his role as the Kingslayer. He killed Aerys when he was prepared to burn Kings Landing to the ground along with every one in it, and Cersei is showing signs that she could be following in his footsteps. There seems to be some foreshadowing in this as well. Her burning down the tower of the hand, thinking how beautiful the flames were, the mass amounts of wildfire buried under Kings Landing, having Ilyn Payne in the Red Keep during the battle of Blackwater, showing she didn't mean to be taken alive, the jousting dwarfs saying something like "Thats KINGslayer, not KINslayer" can't remember the exact quote. Either way, I could see Jaime killing her just as he killed Aerys, if it was the only thing he could do.

[Jon Mark Selmy]

There is nothing we have heard about to indicate that the Kingsguard have any duty to avenge their king. To protect him, yes, but not to avenge him.

Perhaps they don't have a explicit duty to do so, but clearly they have a implicity one, since they have to be loyal until death. It can be implied by Eddard and Arthur Dayne's conversation before the battle at the Tower of Joy. And remember that this is the same Dayne that Jaime (and likelly everybody) believes to be the best and most perfect knight that ever lived. So, it's pretty clear that Jaime would like to follow his footsteps (after all, Aerys II was dead, Rhaegar was dead and yet he kept fighting for them*).

* Unless of course, he were fighting for the unborn son of Rhaegar (Jon Snow?). But even if so, Jaime would not know that, so it makes no matter.

[David C. Hunter]

Its too obvious that it is Jaime and honestly that would be to anti climatic an arc for him.If he dies he needs to die doing something spectacular, not some kind of romeo and Juliet ' i kill you then kill myself' ending. I would hate that. I wish he could learn to fight with his left hand.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Crap, back to the OP, I think its Stannis. I think it is the younger brother of someone in her life that she hated and got rid of.

If Loras were younger the QMarg, I could see him being it, that would really make sense, but not as older then her. she doesn't the hate towards Willas and Garlan.

Benjen? mayhaps but I don't see him coming to KL to do it, and I don't think she really hated Ned that much.

The Hound? no she didn't hate the Mountain.

Tommen? I think she will cause his death. And he will be dead anyway, I don't see UnTommen happening.

That leaves Robert who she hated, and Stannis as V.

[Currawong]

Perhaps they don't have a explicit duty to do so, but clearly they have a implicity one, since they have to be loyal until death.

No, they have to defend the king - kill any attackers and give their own lives trying to do so, if required. That's what the "loyal until death" means. They are not there to take revenge or execute judgment on the previous king's killer(s), though that of course may happen if the king is killed during a battle, and any remaining KG kill the attacker(s). If the KG are not with the king when he dies, then their loyalty transfers to the heir: they do not have any sort of implied duty to go out and avenge the previous king, unless they are ordered to do so because the new king does not want the killer(s) running around loose.

For all that Jaime has had a rift with Cersei, and seems to be re-thinking their entire relationship, I cannot see him killing her in cold blood. Defending people from her, or defending himself if she went mad and attacked him, or defending someone else he loved / respected - I could see him doing that. I could see the attractive storyline symmetry in having her go mad and try to destroy KL, leaving Jaime to kill her just as he did Aerys, but I doubt that GRRM will have things play out that way. As with the Oedipus story, she may well go so crazy out of attempts to avoid the prophecy that she somehow ends up bringing it about.

[Jon Mark Selmy]

Its too obvious that it is Jaime and honestly that would be to anti climatic an arc for him.If he dies he needs to die doing something spectacular, not some kind of romeo and Juliet ' i kill you then kill myself' ending. I would hate that. I wish he could learn to fight with his left hand.

He doesn't necessarily needs to die after killing Cersei (just saying).

[Jon Mark Selmy]

No, they have to defend the king - kill any attackers and give their own lives trying to do so, if required. That's what the "loyal until death" means. They are not there to take revenge or execute judgment on the previous king's killer(s), though that of course may happen if the king is killed during a battle, and any remaining KG kill the attacker(s). If the KG are not with the king when he dies, then their loyalty transfers to the heir: they do not have any sort of implied duty to go out and avenge the previous king, unless they are ordered to do so because the new king does not want the killer(s) running around loose.

It might be, theoretically. Although:

A- It does not invalidate the rest of my argument.

B- It would still be quite silly/against Jaime's all redemption thing if we read the following scene:

Jaime enters the throne room and finds Tommen dead. Cersei (or anyone for that matter) is there with a knife drenched in his blood. He says:

- "Eh, the King is dead, I suppose... how you doing, sis? I guess I would have to kill you if I had came in here two minutes early, but since I haven't... well... tough break. Who's the heir again? Ah, on a second thought, we can figure that out later. So... do you feel like fucking?"

[Jolene Brown]

It might be, theoretically. Although:

A- It does not invalidate the rest of my argument.

B- It would still be quite silly/against Jaime's all redemption thing if we read the following scene:

Jaime enters the throne room and finds Tommen dead. Cersei (or anyone for that matter) is there with a knife drenched in his blood. He says:

- "Eh, the King is dead, I suppose... how you doing, sis? I guess I would have to kill you if I had came in here two minutes early, but since I haven't... well... tough break. Who's the heir again? Ah, on a second thought, we can figure that out later. So... do you feel like fucking?"

I could see him killing her out of anger in that situation (although I think that situation is extremely unlikely), but I think he would just kill her with his sword, not strangle her. And it wouldn't have anything to do with his "duty" as a member of the Kingsguard to "avenge his king." It would have to do with pure rage. Another person would likely kill her with a sword as well, or arrest her and have her executed.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I could see him killing her out of anger in that situation (although I think that situation is extremely unlikely), but I think he would just kill her with his sword, not strangle her. And it wouldn't have anything to do with his "duty" as a member of the Kingsguard to "avenge his king." It would have to do with pure rage. Another person would likely kill her with a sword as well, or arrest her and have her executed.

But that is part of the problem he doesn't really feel that way about their kids, he said a couple times, she wouldn't let him be near them, and he didn't really care that Joff had died, that he didn't care was one of the things the made him look at himself, and what he had done with his life.

[Jolene Brown]

But that is part of the problem he doesn't really feel that way about their kids, he said a couple times, she wouldn't let him be near them, and he didn't really care that Joff had died, that he didn't care was one of the things the made him look at himself, and what he had done with his life.

That was then though, and Joff, not Tommen. It's clear that he cares about Tommen, we see his feelings developing throughout A Feast for Crows, and in his chapter in ADWD it seems like he's all but decided to tell Tommen he is his father or is very strongly considering it (he thinks "I'll have to tell Myrcella too," which implies his decision about Tommen has been made already).

[Doctor Zeus]

I was thinking that it's possible that "valonquar" might be misinterpreted by Cersei etc.

I think it might come out that it had a secondary meaning as its in Valyrian as opposed to the common tongue, and it was intended to just tear Cersei apart, or something else sillly like that.

Further... I could see it ALSO perhaps being Jon Snow if Cersei and Jamie turn out to be The Mad Kings son?

OR further still... it could be someone from any of the orders of "brothers"- kingsguard, nights watch (more to the Jon Snow possibility), or maybe even Barristan Selmy when Dany invades.

Finally. It might be through marriage- brother in law SO Stannis, or maybe even Gendry/any of Roberts bastards (taking that Valonquar's meaning can be stretched)

Truthfully though I do think it'll be Tyrion more so than Jaime, purely because the first time she interprets the prediction its the prediction that is right. Cool poetry there

[Swordsaint]

Crap, back to the OP, I think its Stannis. I think it is the younger brother of someone in her life that she hated and got rid of.

If Loras were younger the QMarg, I could see him being it, that would really make sense, but not as older then her. she doesn't the hate towards Willas and Garlan.

Benjen? mayhaps but I don't see him coming to KL to do it, and I don't think she really hated Ned that much.

The Hound? no she didn't hate the Mountain.

Tommen? I think she will cause his death. And he will be dead anyway, I don't see UnTommen happening.

That leaves Robert who she hated, and Stannis as V.

You're the only other person on these boards besides myself I've seen mention Benjen *bro-hug* It doesn't matter how much she hates Ned or Benjen though. It only matters how much Benjen hates her. I pray the valonqar isn't going to be Jamie. He's too obvious and only Cersei's little brother on a technically by a few seconds. Maggi would have worded it differently if it was Jamie imo. She could have said "twin, lover, great warrior, anything to do with gold hands, kingslayer etc." The fact she worded it as "the little brother" means he's probably a man of seemingly unknown importance. It's ****Benjen****

[Black Wolf Smith]

That was then though, and Joff, not Tommen. It's clear that he cares about Tommen, we see his feelings developing throughout A Feast for Crows, and in his chapter in ADWD it seems like he's all but decided to tell Tommen he is his father or is very strongly considering it (he thinks "I'll have to tell Myrcella too," which implies his decision about Tommen has been made already).

Agreed, and him caring about Tommen (death) would be a big part of him being redemed, but to turn around and kill Cersei after wards would just be the undoing all of that.

As I said earlier, I think that it is the little brother of her biggest foe, and that would be robert, so I don't see Jamie having a part of it.

And for the record I do think Cersei will be the death of Tommen.

[Black Wolf Smith]

You're the only other person on these boards besides myself I've seen mention Benjen *bro-hug* It doesn't matter how much she hates Ned or Benjen though. It only matters how much Benjen hates her. I pray the valonqar isn't going to be Jamie. He's too obvious and only Cersei's little brother on a technically by a few seconds. Maggi would have worded it differently if it was Jamie imo. She could have said "twin, lover, great warrior, anything to do with gold hands, kingslayer etc." The fact she worded it as "the little brother" means he's probably a man of seemingly unknown importance. It's ****Benjen****

I think that is the nice thing anyone has said on these boards about me. as sad as it is, I stll think he is alive, I just see his story in the LoAW. but he would is on my list as possibles.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Ageon YG if he is real would also be on that list but, too many people made me believe he isn't. And that almost would fit, but it was Cersei talking about R, Maggy was talking about Robert at the start, so that would be again be Stannis.

[Stag's Fury]

That would piss him off, but to kill her? I doubt it...

The only thing, at this point, that she could do, in my opinion, is killing Tommen. THAT might make him kill her.

Actually I think he might kill her for TRYING to kill Tommen.

It'd be a nice reversal to Aerys's death.

The whole Realm condemned him for his proudest moment.

this time he will be hailed as the hero for defending the helpless king even if it means he has to kinslay his twin sister and this will be the worst act in his life.

[Jô Maltese]

What Jaime 'would do for love'... I agree with Apple Martini, Brienne will be the reason why - I can see Cersei having Brienne killed actually. And maybe he is a kinslayer already (Aerys his father?)..?

[akajea]

Hmm, wouldn't it be cool if Arya is the Valonqar?

Arya will grow up to look exactly like Lyanna. Then, Cersei, after not seeing Arya since she was a child, sees Lyanna when Arya comes to kill her. Lyanna, Rhaegar's love, the only woman her husband ever cared about, has returned from death to end her. Truly the bane of her existence. :D

[Black Wolf Smith]

Actually I think he might kill her for TRYING to kill Tommen.

It'd be a nice reversal to Aerys's death.

The whole Realm condemned him for his proudest moment.

this time he will be hailed as the hero for defending the helpless king even if it means he has to kinslay his twin sister and this will be the worst act in his life.

The bold part would be his job, and it in and of it self would mean nothing.

The other part I would like, but if we are going with what Maggy said, IMO Tommen will die before Cersei, even with Q Marg and Tyrells he still not taken from her. Now Myrcella being in Dorne, or with YG would be taken from her so she might live.