Pairings you cannot stand.

[Ser_Patreck]

ETA: And to keep this on topic, I agree about Brandon/Ned. I hate that guy.

That's incest taken to a wholly new level :ack:

Unless you're talking about which is the "better" brother. And that's obviously The Ned. :)

[Kittykatknits]

That's incest taken to a wholly new level :ack:

Unless you're talking about which is the "better" brother. And that's obviously The Ned. :)

Oops. Should have said Ashara. Besides, Ned's true love is Robert. It is known.

[Ser_Patreck]

Oops. Should have said Ashara. Besides, Ned's true love is Robert. It is known.

That's what threesomes are for. Ashara is Dornish and Robert... Is Robert. They'd have no problem turning Ned. :)

[Kittykatknits]

That's what threesomes are for. Ashara is Dornish and Robert... Is Robert. They'd have no problem turning Ned. :)

In the early days, when neither of them could admit their love to each other, this makes sense. Later on, well, have I told you my theory about Hodor? :)

[Ser_Patreck]

In the early days, when neither of them could admit their love to each other, this makes sense. Later on, well, have I told you my theory about Hodor? :)

No. And I'm not sure I want to know, either. :stillsick:

On topic, I dislike any Ned pairing that doesn't include Ashara.

[ARYa_Nym]

I thought Ned/Ashara had a beautiful tragic dynamic and throwing Brandon there just cheapens it. I still think that Ned may have had a crush at the very least since he showed some bitterness towards Brandon. The whole thing just makes Ned more annoying and saint like to me.

Anyways, as to Arya/Gendry I fail to see why she has to like the first boy she's met that she's not related to. Why can't she first at least reach puberty and develop a type first? I've even seen her criticized for not recognizing his hotness. She was like 9/10. Some girls are boy crazy already but for others most boys may still have cooties while they like the guy where nothing is going to happen anyway like say Justin Timberlake or Justin Bieber. & even then it's not sexual. It's more like oh he's cute.

I don't believe that she liked Gendry because of her age. Maybe he's not her type. She has noted when other men are handsome like say Jaqen. Maybe she thinks that Gendry is too stupid since she has said more a couple times he was thinking hard like it hurt to think. She compared him to Jon once but I think he was more like a play mate or brother substitute than anything else.

& he left her and hates nobles. In the No Featherbed for Me song it clearly showed that they want different things. I don't see why this is a good match.

[Dimadick]

Anyway Jon and anyone other than a zombie Ygritte is untolerable to me.

Are you in favor of more necrophiliac characters? And I thought Reed I/Heke was enough.

[Kittykatknits]

No. And I'm not sure I want to know, either. :stillsick:

On topic, I dislike any Ned pairing that doesn't include Ashara.

It's not that bad...I think Ned used Hodor like Jaime uses Payne. He can talk to him since Hodor can't repeat anything. So, I think Ned used to cry his love and pain over Robert to him. Over time, "Hodor" became a code word for everything Ned felt and could never say.

[Dimadick]

ok i just found out there are people out there who ship Theon/Ramsay... WTF.

I don't know about shipping, but I noticed Theon's new oral skills. And wondered where he got them. I doubt Ramsay is too conservative to abstain from using Theon as a sex slave.

[Lady Arianne Martell]

Please, let us not Argue that Tyrion, a man who fantasizes about raping his sister, is the moral superior to the hound. I'd say equal grounds, morally.

[Ice Turtle]

Anyways, as to Arya/Gendry I fail to see why she has to like the first boy she's met that she's not related to. Why can't she first at least reach puberty and develop a type first? I've even seen her criticized for not recognizing his hotness. She was like 9/10. Some girls are boy crazy already but for others most boys may still have cooties while they like the guy where nothing is going to happen anyway like say Justin Timberlake or Justin Bieber. & even then it's not sexual. It's more like oh he's cute.

I don't believe that she liked Gendry because of her age. Maybe he's not her type. She has noted when other men are handsome like say Jaqen. Maybe she thinks that Gendry is too stupid since she has said more a couple times he was thinking hard like it hurt to think. She compared him to Jon once but I think he was more like a play mate or brother substitute than anything else.

& he left her and hates nobles. In the No Featherbed for Me song it clearly showed that they want different things. I don't see why this is a good match.

Most people are against Jon/Arya but even if she thinks about him only as her brother I think he will forever remain the most important man of her life and every other potential mate for life will be compared to him. Most (including Gendry) won't pass this test favorably. I don't think she would really love anyone who isn't at least comparable to Jon, so the 99,9% of male population of suitable age and sexual preferences is out of the competition. That said, Arya has seen too much to think that sex=love necessarily.

[Stormcatcher]

Jon/Dany. I don't see why this is so popular either. Just because Targs had a history of marrying relatives doesn't mean either of them would go for it. Especially not Jon, who's been raised a Stark through and through. Not only that, he's a member of the Night's Watch, and isn't looking for a way out! He had a chance for power, and refused. I don't see their personalities being matched either.

Dany/Victarion or Euron. Murderous enslaving rapists, who see her only as a trophy. Yeah, shouldn't need more explanation.

Tyrion/Sansa, because just no. Tyrion has a lot of issues to work through before he has a relationship with any woman. Sansa needs to grow older before any relationship, and preferably not one that she's forced into.

Sansa/Littlefinger. Surprisingly popular in some places. *cough* tumblr *cough* Disturbs me so much. Not only has he got that pervert-pretend-dad thing going on, he's isolating her from people, lying to her, helped screw up her life/family, and is obsessed with her mother.

Stannis/Melisandre. It's just not healthy for anyone.

Tyrion/Tysha. If they meet again, I hope they never, ever end up in a relationship again. As I said, Tyrion has issues to work through, and him getting back with Tysha, problem-free would undermine any developing he could do. And I just don't see it as believable for Tysha to want to get back with him.

Dany/Daario. I wouldn't mind it if she'd just stop describing his ridiculous appearance in such glowing terms and so frequently. The gleaming tooth, the forked beard, the absurd weapons. Just stop! It's embarrassing! If she stopped that, it would reduce to the level of Jon/Ygritte annoyance, where I think they put far to much emphasis on their relationship and far less on the important issues going on, but it wouldn't be as cringeworthy as it is now.

Any incest pairings.

Edit: Jon and Arya/Sansa is an actual thing? A pairing that has fans? Ugh.

[The Wolves]

Stark/Anybody, I don't think any character is good for my Starks in the current situation. I just hate them all. Jon,Sansa,Arya,Bran,Rickon all deserve better

[ARYa_Nym]

Most people are against Jon/Arya but even if she thinks about him only as her brother I think he will forever remain the most important man of her life and every other potential mate for life will be compared to him. Most (including Gendry) won't pass this test favorably. I don't think she would really love anyone who isn't at least comparable to Jon, so the 99,9% of male population of suitable age and sexual preferences is out of the competition. That said, Arya has seen too much to think that sex=love necessarily.

Most people aren't asexual or celibate but at this stage it's impossible for Arya to think that sex means love. Arya hangs out in brothels almost every day now so I wouldn't have been surprised if with the 5 year gap we discovered that she was introduced to sex relatively early given her exposure. The way I see it she would have never been meant to be with only Gendry anyway so I don't get the ideas that she can either be with him or with nobody, dead, with Needle, or a lesbian.

I think it's possible that she would want someone who compares to Jon but maybe not solely that. Some girls want a man like their father. Jon would have this role. However, it's not confirmed what she wants since she's not shown interest yet.

In Braavos she says she loved to hang around the sailors. Maybe she likes that or maybe not since it's not for sexual reasons that she likes them. Of course that doesn't go into specifics like what kind of personality or looks she would like either.

[IceGal]

Stannis and Selyse

[Lyanna Stark]

Not raping a girl that has done nothing to you is neither a sign of any sort of moral integrity nor is it equivalent to killing people who have either abused you all your life or set you up to die. If Sandor had had someone he hated even a sliver as much as Tyrion hated his victims he probably would have done something as bad if not worse.

So the two prostitutes in Essos had done what to Tyrion? Please, explain this to me, because I can't find the reason Tyrion would hate them.

It's a classical pattern of domestic violence only if the perpetrator has just been accused of a murder he didn't committ, discovered that all the people that he trusted or at least appreciated and that he risked his life to protect during a battle are willing to go out of their way to provide false information to have him executed, been sentenced to death, discovered that even his family, and his brother, who was the only person that he thought loved him, has lied to him for years and the lie resulted in his first wife, probably the only person that genuinely loved him, being brutally gang raped by a barrack of men that worked for his father. In this case, yeah, it's quite typical.

Oh, I completely agree that he had a justifiable grievance against Tywin. In fact, even if Tywin is his father, I feel the murder of Tywin is not as bad as the singer, nor the Antlermen, nor the threatening of sacking of the Vale, it's not as bad as the rapes of the prostitutes, and it's far milder than his murder of Shae. If I can forgive Tyrion one of his dark deeds, the murder of Tywin is it. I can sympathise with his reasons and his desperation.

His murder of Shae? Never. That was 100% pettiness and revenge for being embarrassed and "betrayed" by his "girlfriend". It's 100% the classic domestic abuse case.

I think I must have read the same book ser Patreck has.

Tyrion has been trying to comfort Penny in every possible way, hugging her, telling her that everything will be alright, holding her hand when she cried etc... and in the end, when he lead them both out of slavery and a very likely death, she still panicks about a dog and a pig.

It was deinitely a "get hold of yourself" slap ("barely a flick of the wrist" I think it was described).

I agree that Tyrion gave me hope for his character with the way he treated Penny from the moment he met her in Volantis. However, once he signed his name as "Tyrion Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock", it felt like he was right back in his mini-Tywin persona again, including slapping Penny. Perhaps he will show me wrong, but until then, I cannot see it any other way than Tyrion being back in old entitled land, signposted with his signature.

So last time there was a whole discussion about how Tyrion should have left Sansa alone and not even tried to talk to her because clearly she wasn't interested in making conversation, and this time he's blamed for actually respecting her wishes and allowing her privacy.

Ok. Right.

Which I have never stated btw. Whether Sansa was interested or not, the right thing to do would have been to at least offer condolences. Even if she had rejected him.

I don't think Sandor was at his lowest point after the Battle of Blackwater.

He was scared by fire and drunk, yes, but his all life and all the things he had ever believed hadn't just crumbled in front of him.

Maybe we haven't seen Sandor's lowest point yet, at least not in the way we've seen Tyrion's. All that he's done, he's done it while being perfectly aware of himself.

Apart from his death scene, it is pretty obvious Sandor is at his lowest point at the BotBW. He's a man terrified by fire who has led three sorties and stormed boats on horseback, in the midst of wildfire. This is a man who has one thing, and one thing only in life: his fighting prowess. That's why he has his position and why he is infamous. Without that, he is nothing and has nothing. At the BotBW that was broken, so yes, all the things he had had crumbled in front of him.

Besides the monk describes Sandor as a man whose only reason to live was "killing his brother": not finding love, being accepted, living a whole life etc. That pretty much sums it up for me.

Let's examine the Elder brother, what he is saying and who he is saying it to to get some perspective (and remember that with a POV, we get one person's view on the whole thing, this person being Brienne).

Brienne is on the QI to kill the Hound. The EB is aware of that and has two goals: to get her to believe that the Hound is dead (for the smart, that he is metaphorically "dead" but Brienne doesn't get that), and to get her to abandon her quest and go home. Since the EB knows exactly who Sansa is after a one sentence description means he knows full well who she is, what her backstory is, and why she may be on the run (the marriage to Tyrion and the flight).

Also note how the EB is talking in past tense. This is about someone who was, not someone who IS.

Your summation of his life also sells his character rather short, since he has quite a few further complexities than such a one note description. It's like describing Tyrion as a vengeful dwarf who only likes shagging whores. It does not do him justice at all.

[Lyanna Stark]

Most people aren't asexual or celibate but at this stage it's impossible for Arya to think that sex means love. Arya hangs out in brothels almost every day now so I wouldn't have been surprised if with the 5 year gap we discovered that she was introduced to sex relatively early given her exposure. The way I see it she would have never been meant to be with only Gendry anyway so I don't get the ideas that she can either be with him or with nobody, dead, with Needle, or a lesbian.

Pish posh, don't you know that if you meet someone you have to stick to them your entire life? Not getting the memos? ;)

It is interesting though that Arya is hanging out in and around brothels, since it is likely this will influence her views on how sex and love may or may not be tied together. She seems to be on a path where she will be able to divorce sex and love, while Sansa is on a path to divorce marriage from love/sex.

I sincerely doubt that either of them will have a "traditional" marriage to a lord somewhere.

Oops. Should have said Ashara. Besides, Ned's true love is Robert. It is known.

Nedbert 4 ever!

[Kittykatknits]

I sincerely doubt that either of them will have a "traditional" marriage to a lord somewhere.

I think many are going to be surprised with Sansa's story arc. She's been associated with arranged marriages since the beginning, many interpret that with a political marriage for alliance purposes as her logical endgame. Yet, if you actually look in to her story line, see who she is interacting with and learning from, that becomes much less obvious. Her exposure when it comes to sex and love is just as unusual as Arya's, just in a different way.

[SteelAndSnow]

I just found out (freaking tumblr) that people ship Robb and Cat. I mean ...... this is just........ no words. Just no words.

[rmholt]

On the morality of Tyrion: Gemma did say he was the one most like Tywin. That would certainly cover his heinous manipulative and vengeful acts. Tywin must have hated himself for wanting prostitutes. We want to love Tyrion but he is his father's son. Jaime might be a better man, but wont be king. Cersei is just nuts. Interesting that both of them want to be Tywin Jr but Tyrion would probably eat those mushrooms if he saw that it was him.