Why should anyone support any Baratheon ever?

[Kittyhat]

So obviously this is a thread based on the other thread aimed at Targs, but I feel it's also a fair question. Let's take a look at what the Baratheon "dynasty" is made up of:

A fat, lazy, drunk, stupid, lecherous moron takes over and immediately begins running the kingdom (into the ground). This goes on for a few years until the idiot finally manages to get himself killed, and then the realm is thrown into utter chaos because the drooling drunkard managed to get his house in such disarray in such a short time that he's succeeded by a psycho kid who isn't even his biological son.

And his "real" heir? He's a lunatic, obsessive fanatic absolutely no one likes who's taken to forcing his demon-worshipping religion violently down people's throats because that's what it takes to get magical shadow assassin babies (from the witch woman he's also cheating on his wife with, among his many other hypocritical acts) so that he'll actually have a chance of ever winning any battles. One of his first tricks was to use one of these magical shadowbabies to kill his own brother, who was probably the only Baratheon ever who might have been able to be a halfway decent king. Now he's derping around in the North pretending to care about the Others in the vain hopes of drumming up support because he's not actually able to take "his" throne, especially since no one wants him as king anyway.

This isn't even a dynasty at all. It's more like an even dumber, more uncouth version of King Ralph briefly took the throne, and now hilarity ensues because all of his would-be heirs are some combination of incompetent, hated and dead ... or in one case, all three. Apply a slightly different tone to it, and it could be a dark comedy; that's how pathetic it is.

Why would anyone in Westeros want to support these people at this point?

[Gannicus]

The other houses swore fealty to the man who saved the realm from the mad king, and then kept the peace until the time of his death.

Then the rightful king was the only king willing to go north the protect the kingdom.

[StannisBamfatheon]

Well, if anyone was going to make this thread, it'd be you. Aren't threads solely devoted to bashing characters not allowed? Ahh well.

The Baratheons never subjugated 7 countries forcing them into one despite their many cultural, economic and social diffrences. And by subjugate I do mean kill their armies until they swear fealty to them.

The Baratheons never lorded over Westeros with a crazy, incestual dynasty that dragged the realm into civil wars.

The Baratheons never had a king who murdered innocent people, got his sexual jollies from burning people alive, and was a general despotic tyrant.

The Baratheons never said to one of their own kin "I would let his whole whole horde fuck, all 40,000 of them, and their horses too"

The Baratheons have never been talked about in terms of...when one is born their either great or mad.

The Baratheon dynasty DID however...

Protect the realm from Balon Greyjoy, and crush him.

Liberate Westeros from the tyranny of the Targaryen dynasty.

Overthrow the previously mentioned mad king, who murdered his own citizens including his own Warden of the North

Oversee the realm for 15 good years as Ned said, of relative peace. Yes the realm was in debt, but name me a country that doesn't have a standing debt, that's totally normal.

Is that enough? should I keep goin?

Oh and they gave us "breast-plate stretcher"

Peace.

[The Bastard of Summer]

Uh ohhh.....

Stannis fans don't take the bait. Please for the love you have for the one true king. Don't take the bait.

[Ghost of Groat]

I'd support Stannis for his gnashing skills alone.

[Thunderfist]

Don´t feed the trolls

[Barty]

Well Robert keeps the peace for 15 years and is a far better king than Aerys. Stannis saves the realm from a massive wildling army and is going around trying to bring the north back under the Starks (for this alone he gets my support)

[StannisBamfatheon]

Uh ohhh.....

Stannis fans don't take the bait. Please for the love you have for the one true king. Don't take the bait.

Too late....sorry friend, I started gnashing my teeth, and...and....it all happened so fast!

[The Bastard of Summer]

Too late....sorry friend, I started gnashing my teeth, and...and....it all happened so fast!

Shhhh shhhhh come on now. There, there. It's okay I understand :grouphug:

[Stormcloak]

In the backstory or the present you get a lot of the great houses with leaders that shouldn't have been anywhere near that kind of power, even the Starks with all their honour and duty. It's nothing specific to Baratheon's or Targaryens.

That someone unfit to rule can end up with absolute power isn't a problem with any particular family, that's just a feudal system for you.

[Naathi Prince]

While King Bob was certainly a poor King, Stannis is the man and the only reason he didn't prevail in the first place is Littlefinger knows that Stannis is too strong of a man for him to manipulate.

[StarkSupporter]

Well, if anyone was going to make this thread, it'd be you. Aren't threads solely devoted to bashing characters not allowed? Ahh well.

The Baratheons never subjugated 7 countries forcing them into one despite their many cultural, economic and social diffrences. And by subjugate I do mean kill their armies until they swear fealty to them.

The Baratheons never lorded over Westeros with a crazy, incestual dynasty that dragged the realm into civil wars.

The Baratheons never had a king who murdered innocent people, got his sexual jollies from burning people alive, and was a general despotic tyrant.

The Baratheons never said to one of their own kin "I would let his whole whole horde fuck, all 40,000 of them, and their horses too"

The Baratheons have never been talked about in terms of...when one is born their either great or mad.

The Baratheon dynasty DID however...

Protect the realm from Balon Greyjoy, and crush him.

Liberate Westeros from the tyranny of the Targaryen dynasty.

Overthrow the previously mentioned mad king, who murdered his own citizens including his own Warden of the North

Oversee the realm for 15 good years as Ned said, of relative peace. Yes the realm was in debt, but name me a country that doesn't have a standing debt, that's totally normal.

Is that enough? should I keep goin?

Oh and they gave us "breast-plate stretcher"

Peace.

This is a very comprehensive list.

[Light a wight tonight]

Perhaps the most upright character in the books, Ser Davos, supports Stannis. Should count for something.

[Crown]

While King Bob was certainly a poor King, Stannis is the man and the only reason he didn't prevail in the first place is Littlefinger knows that Stannis is too strong of a man for him to manipulate.

Robert wasn't a bad king, he 'ruled' the kingdom for about 15 years with only one rebellion, which he crushed himself.

[Booknerd2]

I doesn't necessarily happen to everyone, but those 3 were never the same after their parents died.

Robert - used the Lyanna ideal to think it would make his life perfect and deluded himself before and after, and it ruined him.

Stannis - I am doing a series re-read and am on the beginning of book 2. Cressen was right and his concerns regarding Stannis were heartfelt and the truth. I believe he was hurt the most by his parents' death of the three. I don't want him as king. WIll he play a huge role and maybe help? Yes. Do I think he does this and is a goner? Yes. Anyone that gets sucked in by Mel is a goner. Even Jon knew she is bs.

Renly - Affected in a different way. Delusional in an idealistic way like Robert, but not self-destructive.

The only Baratheon I get behind is Gendry, and who knows where that is going to go. I mean as a person. Not a king, but I believe his station in life will improve, but as far as his dad and uncles. He is the most stable, brave, loyal, hard-working, realistic personality as a whole.

[StannisBamfatheon]

This is a very comprehensive list.

I do what I can friend, also in the OP it's explicitly stated "no one likes Stannis" ever heard of Davos Seaworth? He's a very minor character I know(he has a POV for some reason!!!) but he does indeed like Stannis.

Also purely coincidental. I'm wearing my crowned stag in a fiery heart t-shirt. I basically had to reply to this thread.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

So obviously this is a thread based on the other thread aimed at Targs, but I feel it's also a fair question. Let's take a look at what the Baratheon "dynasty" is made up of:

A fat, lazy, drunk, stupid, lecherous moron takes over and immediately begins running the kingdom (into the ground). This goes on for a few years until the idiot finally manages to get himself killed, and then the realm is thrown into utter chaos because the drooling drunkard managed to get his house in such disarray in such a short time that he's succeeded by a psycho kid who isn't even his biological son.

And his "real" heir? He's a lunatic, obsessive fanatic absolutely no one likes who's taken to forcing his demon-worshipping religion violently down people's throats because that's what it takes to get magical shadow assassin babies (from the witch woman he's also cheating on his wife with, among his many other hypocritical acts) so that he'll actually have a chance of ever winning any battles. One of his first tricks was to use one of these magical shadowbabies to kill his own brother, who was probably the only Baratheon ever who might have been able to be a halfway decent king. Now he's derping around in the North pretending to care about the Others in the vain hopes of drumming up support because he's not actually able to take "his" throne, especially since no one wants him as king anyway.

This isn't even a dynasty at all. It's more like an even dumber, more uncouth version of King Ralph briefly took the throne, and now hilarity ensues because all of his would-be heirs are some combination of incompetent, hated and dead ... or in one case, all three. Apply a slightly different tone to it, and it could be a dark comedy; that's how pathetic it is.

Why would anyone in Westeros want to support these people at this point?

About Renly, he was a powerhungry usurper who was more than willing to kill his own brother to take what was not his. Sure, Stannis had him killed, but that was after Renly raised an army to kill him. And no, Stannis surrendering his rightful claim is not what Stannis should have done. By that logic, anyone shoots an armed robber is a bad guy because he could have just given the robber his stuff.

But the reason why Westeros would want them is simple. They are not Targeryons.

The Baratheons never subjugated 7 countries forcing them into one despite their many cultural, economic and social diffrences. And by subjugate I do mean kill their armies until they swear fealty to them.

While I'm sympathetic to your position (I got my mom to name her new puppy Stannis), this part is not true. The first Baratheon was Aegon's brother and supported him in his conquest (which how he became ruler of the Stormlands).

[BondJamesBond]

What about Edrick storm?

[mcb]

Well, if anyone was going to make this thread, it'd be you. Aren't threads solely devoted to bashing characters not allowed? Ahh well.

The Baratheons never subjugated 7 countries forcing them into one despite their many cultural, economic and social diffrences.

That's hilarious, if you remember that Orys Baratheon was one of Aegon's generals. If the Targs are eeevil, then so is their catspaw.

Then the rightful king was the only king willing to go north the protect the kingdom.

Did he go to the Wall to protect the kingdom, or did he rather run away when he had no options left? I'd be a little bit more impressed if his "right choice" wasn't his only choice.

I do what I can friend, also in the OP it's explicitly stated "no one likes Stannis" ever heard of Davos Seaworth? He's a very minor character I know(he has a POV for some reason!!!) but he does indeed like Stannis.

That's a very good point. Exactly one person likes Stannis, shame on those who deny it.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Stannis would make a decent king but the smallfolk wouldnt support him because hes not...very...approachable and well...hes a hard ass. I think this is why he has had some trouble getting support. That and hes basically calling the Seven and the Old Gods bullshit and people dont take well to that. But since he is against the Lannisters, he will have some support. Just about everybody is grossed out by the Freys now. (Even the Boltons....save Ramsey) Another thing is that Stannis hasnt been plundering along the smallfolk at all. Thats in his favor. Even if they dont like him much, they can say "Well Stannis didnt try to kill us and take our lands."

Robert won quite a few victories. I think thats why people sided with Baratheons in the first place. Aerys really screwed people over and a lot of Houses thought Robert a hero for crushing the Targaryens. (but not everybody. Its clear they didnt support Aerys. I think people would have been cool with Rhaegar though.)

Renly....well...He was a pretty nice guy but because Stannis had a better claim, forces were divided. Plus it was unclear if he even knew how to be a king.