Is Dany's no slavery rule really the best for Planetos

[Magic 8 Ball]

But all of the Free Cities except Braavos (which is only free due to its history) have slaves, and based on latitude some of them should be pretty temperate.

Actually, if I recall correctly they aren't legally slave cities, but some slave ownership goes on while the authorities turn a blind eye. This is exactly what you would expect in a temperate climate, small scale and domestic slavery. It's frowned upon, but hard to enforce.

[Ser Lepus]

Actually, if I recall correctly they aren't legally slave cities, but some slave ownership goes on while the authorities turn a blind eye. This is exactly what you would expect in a temperate climate, small scale and domestic slavery. It's frowned upon, but hard to enforce.

Braavos, Pentos and probably Lorath, that is really close to Braavos, have outlawed slavery (but the rich people of Pentos still keep slaves, flaunting the law).

Qohor, Myr, Tyrosh, Lys and Volantis have slaves.

I don't know about Norvos. I think it has slaves, since it's too far from the sea to fear the braavosi war fleet.

[Magic 8 Ball]

They also grow lemons in the free cities, which indicates most likely a mediterranean climate, more conducive to slavery than a four season temperate climate.

[Magic 8 Ball]

Also, I would conjecture that if you went into a time machine and turned up in late 18th century Louisiana or Brazil to evangelize the populace about the evils of slavery, the majority of them would say "fine, tell us something we don't know, now what are we supposed to do about that won't have catastophic effects on our society".

While this Ghiscari are portrayed as cartoonishly evil and decadent, Dany is finding out the same lesson - you can't do the morally correct thing without ripping the very society to shreds and inducing widespread chaos. Slaves are trying to sell themselves back into slavery, and stuff is really hitting the fan. It's no coincidence that the abolition of slavery (on an economic scale) tended to occur when it was no longer economically viable, and one could argue that much bloodshed occurred in the name of a cause that was soon going to come to fruition one way or another due to economic conditions anyway.

The peasants and thralls of Westeros are only better off because they can't be sold as property. Slavery would exist in Westeros if it were more thinly populated and had the right climate.

[Cat of the Canal Girl]

It's her responsibility to implement a sustainable economic system if she wants to abolish their old one.

Without slaves, what goods does Meereen have that would draw trading ships from Quarth, Volantis, etc?

Highgarden is super-fertile. The North, despite being less rich, is so vast that it can easily support a large population with the game/crops it has. The other free cities have skilled craftsman that put out products wanted all over the world.

Abolishing slavery could be a good decision if executed it properly. If she had killed all who opposed her and dragged everyone else to Westeros, that would have put them in a position where slavery was not their only means of survival.

[danm_999]

I posted this about a month ago in another thread, but I feel it's relevant in describing how Daenerys is not a strong conceptual thinker vis a vis ending the institution of slavery:

I have a friend from university who works with modern anti-slavery institutions, like Amnesty International and Anti-Slavery International. Some of the people he works with have the extremely dangerous job of travelling around the world and actually attempting to stop slavery on the ground. Most slavery nowdays is not codified, it's debt slavery, and it exists largely in countries in Africa, and the subcontinent, but it's no less terrifying and cruel than it was hundreds of years ago. Usually, people will become slaves through debts; they get given a job, and their employer relocates them, feeds and clothes them, but charges them for this travel, room and board at a rate that means even with their labour, they'll never be able to pay off what they owe, effectively, they'll become slaves forever.

So I asked my friend, how do these agents usually go around freeing these people? Do they use money raised to pay off their debts? Do they inform the local authorities and have the slavers arrested? Do they sneak in and free the slaves? He basically laughed that off, and said that if they were to go and "buy" or "have freed through legal action" every single slave in the world today, the people behind these institutions would simply re-enslave a similar number of people in about a weeks time. The problem isn't the people metaphorically in chains (as callous as that sounds) it's the pervasive system whereby people can make a much greater living off slavery than other economic activity. If you buy or free all their slaves, they won't cash out and do something else, they'll simply re-acquire as many slaves as they need. You haven't crippled their system, you've demonstrated it's profitability and worth.

Which brings us back to Daenerys. She doesn't understand the root cause of the problem, the pervasive system underlying Slaver's bay that makes them slavers. She's honestly shocked when Astapor simply inverts the master/slave relationship (why would former slaves practice slavery, she wonders) and that's exactly why all she's doing is enabling the system, rather than actually attacking it. That's why what she's doing is dishonourable and futile, because she's not actually improving the lot of slaves in the long term, she's just getting a whole lot of people killed, and in the mean time, she's reaping the lion's share of their wealth, labour and value. When push comes to shove and she actually needs help defend the freed slaves, she's nowhere to be found.

[JP Dayne]

Down here in brazil we only abolished slavery after england gave us an ultimatum.

So I think it's fair to say that more "advanced" nations will have an easier time doing so.

In "planetos" I dont think it works that way, coz I truly believe the cities in essos are move civilized and advanced than the seven kingdons in westeros, and they've done pretty well down there with no more slaves

[The Mother of Dragons]

Yea man! you got jokes buddy!

Anyway, great post brony, and it is an interesting point you make, industialization =slaves become obsolete. You are correct and the second she leaves essos slavery will return, its pretty much guaranteed.

I feel like the slavers will just throw a huge wrap party, like "Alright, we're done being plot devices, let's get some slaves!!"

[PatrickStormborn]

I don't really care about the economy of Slaver's Bay. The War for Dawn is coming, y'all. So I hope Dany, gods bless her soul, frees as many slaves and burns as many slavers as she can. Also snatch up a khalasar or two or four khaleesi you deserve them. <3

Team Daenerys :cool4: Better than your faves since 1996~

[Magic 8 Ball]

I don't really care about the economy of Slaver's Bay. The War for Dawn is coming, y'all. So I hope Dany, R'hollor bless her soul, ignores as many slaves and burns as many Daarios as she can. Also snatch up a khalasar (with adequate transportation and other logistics) or two or four khaleesi you deserve them. <3

Team Daenerys :cool4: (hypothetically) Better than your faves since 1996~

Fixed it for you. :cool4:

[Fedelede]

I don't really care about the economy of Slaver's Bay. The War for Dawn is coming, y'all. So I hope Dany, gods bless her soul, frees as many slaves and burns as many slavers as she can. Also snatch up a khalasar or two or four khaleesi you deserve them. <3

Team Daenerys :cool4: Better than your faves since 1996~

Because freeing more people won't result in all of Essos starving and Ghiscar losing 99% of its population, right?

[PatrickStormborn]

Because freeing more people won't result in all of Essos starving and Ghiscar losing 99% of its population, right?

Did you read my post? I don't want to repeat myself, you know?

The. Others. Are. Coming. The whole world is going to fucking freeze over. This is the perfect time to change the way society functions.

[Winter's Knight]

I hate to bring in another character, but isn't this just like Jon-and-the-Wildlings in Dance?

[Foxhound]

I hate to bring in another character, but isn't this just like Jon-and-the-Wildlings in Dance?

Jon never had a choice except to deal with the Wildlings one way or another. Dany chose to start a war. She could have just left Astapor. Instead she sacked a city with absolutely no plan of dealing with the aftermath. She's ended up stuck in Meereen with nothing but bad choices available to her, but she got herself into that situation.

[Cat of the Canal Girl]

Did you read my post? I don't want to repeat myself, you know?

The. Others. Are. Coming. The whole world is going to fucking freeze over. This is the perfect time to change the way society functions.

Slaves living in a city with a strong economy are more likely to survive the Others than freed people living in the weak city Dany created.

The perfect time to change the way society function is in the aftermath of a tragedy.

[NicciTarg]

I'm sure that Ned was truly horrified by all the loss of life. However, under different circumstances, I do not believe that his sentence would have been quite so harsh.

Had it been only one village, or just a few villagers, no harm done. You have to remember though, these were his wife's people that were being slaughtered. Also, this was the perfect situation for him to say, ....You House Lannister. Justice for the smallfolk or for his family.

Perhaps Dany should have been formulating a plan to put a system in place. Does she really love her "children" so much that she is abandoning them to be caught up in the retribution that is sure to be delivered by the former slavers.

It may be a noble undertaking, but did she truly think it through before she started it.

[E-Ro]

Actually no, they were not all crucified. In fact they don't know for sure that Spartacus was amongst the ones captured.

All prisoners from the battle was killed that way yes, many got away and we only have roman second hand info that at times contradict itself, to log it.

Seriously? Does it even matter? They lost and died horrible deaths, maybe some escaped good for them, the point is slave revolts end badly for the slaves.

[E-Ro]

I don't really care about the economy of Slaver's Bay. The War for Dawn is coming, y'all. So I hope Dany, gods bless her soul, frees as many slaves and burns as many slavers as she can. Also snatch up a khalasar or two or four khaleesi you deserve them. <3

Team Daenerys :cool4: Better than your faves since 1996~

Must. Resist. the urge. to. GAHHHHHHHH!

YEA BOY!! fuck all this shit it dont even matter amiright! All that matter is dragon bro mon buddy pal, all we gonna do is go in and burn away teh othas for teh queen whod never been burnt how cool is dat to be pretty. why slavas bay matter? Talk of economy and such hurt my head all I want is silver haired queen no one else have dat color for hair.

[pat]

Freeing the slaves is just stupid. Slavery being awfull does not make freeing them to die smart.

Who in the hell is gonna give them land? Who is going to feed and cloth them?

The best example for me is modern homeless people who are mentally ill. Once we used to put them in forced treatment. People decided that was wrong. Now they freeze and die wrapped up in their nice warm freedoms.

Live free or die is for T-shirts and Tattoos

[The Hetman of Serrak]

Westeros does fine without slaves because it already has a slavery all but in name in the form of serfdom. Medieval Europe rarely used slaves but that wasn't because of their moral righteousness.