Comic Books, part 2

[Lady Octarina]

Getting back to where we left the discussion...

red snow:

No matter what Marvel claim, they've never had a roadmap of events from "house of M" until now. A lot of the time it's hard to notice but in some cases it's pretty blatant. I'd argue for one that relaunching the X-men comics and doing the "schism" event was possibly their shortest revamp yet. Did they really know they were doing the AvX just 9 months later? I suspect AvX and the massive rebranding is solely in response to DC kicking their ass for a 2 months with the new 52 event last year. At least MArvel haven't gone for a full on reboot (although neither did DC with some of their titles - which is the confusing part)

Kalbear:

I dunno; if they haven't had a roadmap they've done an excellent job of keeping things consistent throughout the titles.

let's see. We started with House of M and the aftermath of No More Mutants. That led into Utopia, Dark Avengers/XMen, Summers becoming more hardcore and then...let's go with it. We got Messiah Complex (one of the better events ever), Necrosha (not so great, but had its moments), Second Coming (a strong crossover), the 5 lights, Magneto's return, Scott's use of XForce to signal how hard core he was and how he was willing to let the ends justify the means. All of this has continued to progress more and more towards the AvX deal. The schism wasn't hard to find either (though the event and the split was kind of shit to be honest). But cyclops' motivations, goals, way of doing things - have gotten more extreme. Similarly to Wolverine, who was willing to fight for what he could but was always doing it so the others didn't have to; when Scott pushed that, it made sense that he'd lose it.

Then we have XForce being brilliant too (the new version), with seeing how this darkness does cause all this harm to them, how the choices are eating them up - and all with a nod to what Scott's choices must have been.

I think they've done a pretty good job of going from A to B with big events.

Is it strange that I agree with both of you? Marvel's editors are brilliant as far as teams are concerned; I think the problem comes when trying to keep some individual characters, either in personality or history, consistent through the decades. Look at Polaris, for example, and the amount of times it was confirmed and dismissed that Magneto was her father. But overall I think they've done a good job, especially with the X-Men; Schism is the exception. There were such high hopes for that event and then they give us something that lacks continuity even when you compare the prelude to the Schism series itself. On the other hand, I think everything in the X-Men comics, especially after Second Coming, had been pointing to that major fight between Wolverine and Cyclops, which, of course, was also necessary for AvsX.

[red snow]

I agree that they do a good job of pulling it all together on the whole. I guess it's similar to how Deep Space Nine never really had a plan until much later in the show but did so in a way that looked organic. But I think in a lot of cases it is just very clever retroactive planning and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact I'd suggest there'd be something inherently wrong with them having a roadmap from House of M through to marvel now. Having a 7 year publishing plan for a monthly publishing group would be incredibly dangerous.

I'm sure they had some loose plans for how to eventually dissolve "no more mutants" just in case it didn't work out. To be honest the initial post decimation x-men books were so poor I quit them. It was probably bad timing though as Axel Alonso became editor shortly after that and really turned the x-books around with a very clear mission and a story that simply wouldn't have worked with all the mutants that previously existed, It's one of things that has me interested in marvel now in the sense I get the impression this will be the first line-wide vision Alonso has as EIC.

[haLobEnder]

Even if the events post-M-Day aren't all one big master plan I still think they've done a better job of keeping the story more cohesive than other eras in X-Men/Marvel history -- Possibly even to their detriment if, like me, you're not a big fan of Cyclops and Emma's rise to power.

That said, I do think it's time for them to wrap up. How many other comic titles out there have required almost a decade of attention to play out their central mysteries?

[red snow]

Even if the events post-M-Day aren't all one big master plan I still think they've done a better job of keeping the story more cohesive than other eras in X-Men/Marvel history -- Possibly even to their detriment if, like me, you're not a big fan of Cyclops and Emma's rise to power.

That said, I do think it's time for them to wrap up. How many other comic titles out there have required almost a decade of attention to play out their central mysteries?

Agreed. I hope this new era lives up to its potential. I feel they tried a similar thing with "heroic Age" a few years ago but they never really had the tonal shift they were promising with the whole "heroes being heroes" thing. I think with titles like Uncanny Avengers it looks like they are going to be trying this.

I also hope that a lot of these new creative teams stick around for a while. I went off Bendis' Avengers after a couple of years but I do appreciate how long he stuck around and how he made that franchise Marvel's flagship one. I hope he can do the same with the X-men. Same goes for Hickman on avengers and Fraction on Fantastic Four. And if Remender can do the same with uncanny avengers as he has with X-force we'll be in for a treat. Those are the titles I'll be trying out anyhow.

I'm sure Waid will do a good job on Hulk but I'll wait to be beat over the head with that fact before I buy an issue. Waid seems to be getting along with Marvel quite well at the moment. Hopefully this doesn't mean he's due storming off and doing creator owned any time soon. To be fair the last time he did that was when he was removed from FF - although he came back for that in the end.

[Little Valkyrie]

Waid seems to be getting along with Marvel quite well at the moment. Hopefully this doesn't mean he's due storming off and doing creator owned any time soon. To be fair the last time he did that was when he was removed from FF - although he came back for that in the end.

Well, he's certainly not going back to DC unless/until they have some real changes in the power structure there, sadly. (Waid!Flash is one of my comfort re-reads, for good reason.)

I am cautiously excited for Hickman Avengers (because he knows how to plot out long-term and pull things together) and Fraction F4 (because I love the F4 and the FF and I think it might finally get us Good Fraction again). My dark horse title of the moment is Scarlet Spider, which is a lot of fun, and even if they don't get Houston exactly right they're 1) working at it pretty hard 2) SO nice to have a non-NYC book out there.

(To get in the spirit for Scarlet Spider, take a listen to Lyle Lovett, "You're Not from Texas".)

[red snow]

Well, he's certainly not going back to DC unless/until they have some real changes in the power structure there, sadly. (Waid!Flash is one of my comfort re-reads, for good reason.)

I am cautiously excited for Hickman Avengers (because he knows how to plot out long-term and pull things together) and Fraction F4 (because I love the F4 and the FF and I think it might finally get us Good Fraction again). My dark horse title of the moment is Scarlet Spider, which is a lot of fun, and even if they don't get Houston exactly right they're 1) working at it pretty hard 2) SO nice to have a non-NYC book out there.

(To get in the spirit for Scarlet Spider, take a listen to Lyle Lovett, "You're Not from Texas".)

I was confused for a second there and was thinking "Marvel won't like Dark Horse having a scarlet spider book too". I'm one of those freaks who actually enjoyed the initial "clone saga" and thought Ben Reilly was a great character (I have fond memories of him and Kane in "lost years"). It's just a shame the new Scarlet Spider is Kane and not Ben. Seems odd when Kane is as much a clone of Spidey as Ben was - in the sense it's still opening a can of worms from the clone sage. I may give the trade a look though. It is refreshing to have heroes outside NYC, I agree.

[Sci-2]

Unwritten seems to be stumbling. It's still interesting but it doesn't grab me like it used to.

Action Comics I like but it is rather clunky.

Saga might be the top book on the stands. Love the universe.

I liked the Key Largo tribute in Locke and Key, minus some elements I felt were a bit...retrograde in their thinking.

[haLobEnder]

I'm curious, I haven't read any of the DC New 52 books (save for the first issue of Demon Knights), but watching from afar I have sort of noticed that the artists/writers on many of these titles seem to be switched out constantly. Obviously there was the big Rob Liefield fiasco recently --why the hell do people continue to employ that guy if he's such a disaster to work with?-- but even before that there were the people he took over writing duties for, Voodoo, and several series that seemed to switch creators at the drop of a hat.

Is that a testament to these books quality, or do they somehow manage to stay coherent midst all these creator shake-ups? I also have to wonder how much of this emphasis on getting a book out there no matter who is writing or drawing it is spearheaded by Bob Harras -- seems to me that his reign at Marvel is remembered as one of the more creatively devoid periods in that company's history.

I think it's time I made a confession about Unwritten: On some level I'm pretty sure I WANT to like the series more than I actually do. I think the general premise is one of the most original in comics today, and I really enjoyed Mike Carey's writing on things such as Lucifer and Crossing Midnight, but upon deep reflection I don't think I've ever been all that enamoured with the characters or plot of the Unwritten itself.

That's not to say I hate the series, it's still more interesting to me than most books on the market, and I'll probably continue to collect it in trade just because I want to know how things play out, but I think for a long time I was hyping myself up into believing that it was 4-5 star book, when really it's just a 3-3 and a half.

[delete this account pls]

Saga might be the top book on the stands. Love the universe.

Now that Scalped has wrapped up, I'm inclined to agree. I'm also loving the shit out of Prophet, Manhattan Projects and Danger Club. Image is really bringing it right now.

[Im no Ser]

Saga might be the top book on the stands. Love the universe.

Agreed. It's one of the few books out that doesn't feel like I've read it before somewhere, and its central character dynamic is two adults in a realistic romantic relationship (and their search for quality childcare :cool4: ).

[Lord Pendragon]

So, on an almost entirely unrelated note, how's Kitty Pryde fit into this new Marvel Universe? :wub:

[Sci-2]

So, on an almost entirely unrelated note, how's Kitty Pryde fit into this new Marvel Universe? :wub:

Last I heard she was still out of phase but that may have changed?

Also, I've been doing a reread of Seven Soldiers and I have to admit this might remain my favorite crossover event of all time.

[Kalbear]

Last I heard she was still out of phase but that may have changed?

Let's see. Kitty went into permanent phase while phasing a giant bullet that would have destroyed the world. She was rescued by Magneto who eventually found the bullet and brought it back. She was still in phase. Thanks to breakworld science and a sacrifice by one of their members, she was fixed and is now not in phase. Colossus however ended up getting the power of the Juggernaut and they basically broke up because of it.

She's now one of the major teachers in Wolverine's school.

[Galactus]

Let's see. Kitty went into permanent phase while phasing a giant bullet that would have destroyed the world. She was rescued by Magneto who eventually found the bullet and brought it back. She was still in phase. Thanks to breakworld science and a sacrifice by one of their members, she was fixed and is now not in phase. Colossus however ended up getting the power of the Juggernaut and they basically broke up because of it.

She's now one of the major teachers in Wolverine's school.

And dating Iceman.

[Sci-2]

Do the X-men ever look around and realize that they've all fucked one another at this point, or at least been within two standard orifice deviations of each other?

[Lord Pendragon]

Thanks for the heads-up. So I guess the follow-up question is, is the Wolverine X-book any good right now? I've been thinking of buying a select few comics. Maybe 1-3. I'd definitely make one of them Kitty's book, provided it's any good. Sadly the mainstream books tend to be very hit-or-miss in the quality department. :worried:

[Lord Pendragon]

Do the X-men ever look around and realize that they've all fucked one another at this point, or at least been within two standard orifice deviations of each other?

This is the trouble with stories that never end. They're soap operas instead of movies or even miniseries, which is the greatest weakness of American comics, imo.

I'm still annoyed about them destroying the Scott/Jean romance way back when, but you can't leave a couple happy in a soap opera. :(

[Ser Solace]

The Wolverine and the X Men comic is very enjoyable. Quite fun to see him be the headmaster or attempt to be what Professor X was. So, of course, hijinks ensue.

[Sci-2]

This is the trouble with stories that never end. They're soap operas instead of movies or even miniseries, which is the greatest weakness of American comics, imo.

I'm still annoyed about them destroying the Scott/Jean romance way back when, but you can't leave a couple happy in a soap opera. :(

I gotta be honest. Killing Jean was one of the best things to happen to the X-men.

[Im no Ser]

Do the X-men ever look around and realize that they've all fucked one another at this point, or at least been within two standard orifice deviations of each other?

I think this line is from Stormwatch:

"How was it cheating? She was an alternate universe version of you!"