Thendel Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 If Rhaegar was really that adamant about recreating the conquering trio, he wouldn't have named his eldest daughter Rhaenys - Visenya was the oldest of the three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melonica Stormborn Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 If R+L=J, the reason I can come up with for him not having dragon dreams is because he hasn't shown any fixation in the idea of dragons due to his upbringing. It may have become dormant. Tyrion, for example, is quite obsessed with dragons, so is Dany.That doesn't count out the possibility that his bond with Ghost prevents the dragon dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 If Rhaegar was really that adamant about recreating the conquering trio, he wouldn't have named his eldest daughter Rhaenys - Visenya was the oldest of the three.The order of the factors does not alter the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Seastar Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 In a GoT, on the road North to the Wall, when Tyrion tells Jon of his dragon dreams and staring at the fire, Jon gets angry for some reason(I used to think it was because of the family burning thing).However, Jon is agitated-he thinks that somehow Tyrion knows of Jon's weird dreams and that's why Jon gets really angry. Also, Robb is described as tall and muscly, while Jon is tall, long and lean, just like Rhaegar(I think). Jon mentions dragons as much as Tyrion does, and I don't think that GRRM put those lines as coincidence.He might as well wish for a dragon, or three. Jon on the Wall. I believe that both Tyrion and Jon are Targ, only Tyrion is a bastard, while Jon is legitimate. I think had Aemon not been blind, he would have seen Rhaegar in Jon-no one else saw Rhaegar in Jon because he had Northern looks.For example, Catelyn(who might have seen Rhaegar-though I doubt it, she mentiones she did not leave Riverrun until she went to Winterfell, was too busy hating Jon to really look at him.When King Bob came tow Winterfell, he didn't pay much heed to Ned's bastard, Cercei and Jamie as well. Tyrion is different. He takes a special interest in Jon, but he was too young to have seen Rhaegar. I think Rhaegar wanted to give his children powerful names-not necessarily recreate the original trio-Visenya and Rhaenys were the only female Targ warriors(that I know of), so may be that's why Rhaegar named his daughter Rhaenys-he was descendant of her line after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 If Rhaegar was really that adamant about recreating the conquering trio, he wouldn't have named his eldest daughter Rhaenys - Visenya was the oldest of the three.It is possible that Rhaegar only 'understood' the prophecy once Aegon was born - from Dany's vision in the House of the Undying it seems as though the birth of his son triggered some sort of epiphany. Rhaenys may have been named after both her father and grandmother, with a nod to her distant ancestor, but without any specific intent of recreating the original trio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eRome Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Yeah, I think this is a stretch. If Dany is Aegon the Conqueror come again, who's to say she can't take two husbands, as Aegon I took two wives. All this assumes that Aegon is "real" though, and that is still up for debate. He is, according to Quaithe, the "mummer's dragon" after all.There's no proof whatsoever that Raeghar and Lyanna had a daughter...hell there's still a debate whether or not they had a baby to begin with....AND I still refuse to think that George RR Martin would take nearly 20 years to build a character that so many reading are emotionally, viscerally, connected to (Dany) and set her aside for a character that pops-up in Book 5. What I think is much more likley is that Aegon is a plot device used to get an army from the East to Westeros. that seemed to pose logistical problems (the Dothraki couldn't cross the sea without thousands of ships, and Dany was stuck in Mereen with the only option of marching West which would have taken a while...) There's now a Targayen army in Westeros and Dany has finally left Meereen....on the back of a dragon on less. Plus her other two dragons are unruly, and there just happens to be a horn sailing for Salver's Bay that binds people to dragons...hmmmSorry, I think I've gone off on a tangent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Because of course the fact that Rhaegar had a name in mind for the baby automatically ensures that is a girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of the Red North Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 It is very simple Ned feels ashamed about Ashara being the mother of Jon and killed herself. He never tells what is the promise it is to his sister. I am sticking to my theory because why would GRRM bring it up that Rhaegar name two of his kids after the founders of the seven kingdoms. Also the reason I believe that the child is a girl is because it has been three hundred years since house targaryen became kings. Drogon is the recarnation of Balerion the Black Dread the other two dragons are also rebirths. In storm of swords Jon says he belongs to the Old Gods. He gets a white dire wolf the symbol of House Stark not a dragon. Even he said he feels force to go to winterfell is because he stays what his father taught him and Jon earned his place at the wall it was not given to him. Jon is doing what his ancestor did Bran the Builder he earned the right to rule. Also the girl is hidden just like Aegon was her location is somewhere no one would ever think. Her name the way Rhaegar want it would be Visyna Targaryen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 snip Then what about the promise that Ned gave to Lyanna which Ned feeling guilty for and says that he had to pay a great deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozlym Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 this topic can also fit the statement by Alfie Allen about Jon having a Luke Skywalker situation.Lyanna gave birh to twins and they were seperated yada yada yada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 this topic can also fit the statement by Alfie Allen about Jon having a Luke Skywalker situation.Lyanna gave birh to twins and they were seperated yada yada yada But then how this: would work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valyrian_steel Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I always say the same thing in these threads. Since baby Aegon is never described there is only one example of what a child of Rhaegar and a non Targryan would look like. Rhaenys had brown hair and looked like a Martell. As the Martells dont have purple eyes, she didnt either. If u believe Jon is another son of Rhaegar, then u have both children with brown hair and non purple eyes. While that doesnt make it impossible Aegon favored his father, the author has gone to a lot of trouble showing the odds were against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Dagoghlor Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 If Rhaegar and Lyanna's child was a girl, then Viserys would be ahead of her in the line of succession, therefore the 3KG would not be still at the ToJ when Ned arrived - they would be en route to their king, Viserys.This is absolutely true. When Dayne delivers the great line "the Kingsguard does not flee," it could only mean they are protecting the rightful king. Since Rhaegar is dead and everyone believes Aegon is dead, the rightful king would be Viserys unless a male child, fathered by Rhaegar, is inside the tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 This is absolutely true. When Dayne delivers the great line "the Kingsguard does not flee," it could only mean they are protecting the rightful king. Since Rhaegar is dead and everyone believes Aegon is dead, the rightful king would be Viserys unless a male child, fathered by Rhaegar, is inside the tower. :agree: That is the point. In the ToJ can't been a girl because she was the last in the line of succession and they should be with the King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Okay, so who is "she", then?Meera?Hey, I can dream, can't I?! I just think she is smart and nice and could be a great queen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of the Red North Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 For the whole twin seprated at birth GRRM wouldn't steal that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of the Red North Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 Rhaenys did have purple eyes and dark hair all targaryens have purple eyes don't say well Barlor Breakspear didn't have purple eyes he probably did it is 50 50 Martian has never told us his eye color. Orys had silver and purple eyes then his kids had the purple eyes and then the blue eyes came. It becomes reccessive after a generation after marry into the family. Jon is Ashara and Ned childp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Rhaenys did have purple eyesNo, there is not a single direct description of Rhaenys' eyes. When asked about her hair and eye color, Martin said that she "looked more like a Martell." Given the context of the question, it's pretty safe to assume that he was referring to both her hair and eye color.all targaryens have purple eyes don't say well Barlor Breakspear didn't have purple eyes he probably did it is 50 50 Martian has never told us his eye color.You have no basis for concluding that all Targaryens have the purple eyes. You have one example, Aegor Rivers, who had dark hair and purple eyes, and you assume based on this that all the other half-Targs "probably" had them too. That is simply not a good argument. One example does not prove a pattern.Orys had silver and purple eyesI don't recall a single source describing Orys' appearance. Did George recently reveal his appearance at a recent reading?then his kids had the purple eyes and then the blue eyes came. It becomes reccessive after a generation after marry into the family.That...is not science.A gene does not "become" recessive. It either is or isn't. Exactly what mechanism do you propose that could cause a gene to go from being dominant to recessive? How does it know when it's time to stop being dominant?ETA--I just remembered a Targ bastard who didn't have purple eyes: Shiera Seastar. She had one blue eye and one green one. And now I formally declare this argument dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwesteros Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Okay, so who is "she", then?This hasn't been answered yet, has it? Who would she be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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