Becoming No One: Re-reading Arya

[The Sleeper]

The point is not that Joff would not have listened (at this point no one knew Joff was a psycho and Arya didn't know he was drunk). It's Arya's initial reaction after screaming at him. No explanation, no agreeing that she had asked etc. He's the Crown Prince. You do not hit the Crown Prince.

The natural reaction is verbal first IMHO, not hitting someone so hard with a stick that it splits the back of their head open and then trying to hit them again.

In her awkward way she did try to talk to him. Her initial response was to tell him to get away and then screamed at him to stop. Joffrey completely ignores her and proceeds to carve Mycah's face. At which point Arya lost it. I'm not using "lost it" as an excuse, it is not a good thing to lose it. I am merely describing the situation as I understood it. This seems to me like a normal progression of responces. The important question, I think, is whether Arya's actions were aggressive or defensive. Did she defend her friend or attack Joffrey. I think it's both. Her initial reaction was one of violation, that Joffrey and Sansa intruded something they didn't belong in. "Stop it" speak for itself. Both for the wanton cruelty that was a about to transpire before her eyes and the fact that it was directed at a friend. What followed was pure aggression, born of indignation and her feral nature. She tried to beat him down.

Did Joffrey warrant this response. In my view, yes. Even for a crown prince his behaviour is unacceptable. His own family (apart from his mother, obviously) is accutely aware of what a liablity it is. Even Roose Bolton demands discression of Ramsay. I cited these two examples to place the burden on the practical implications of his actions rather than the moral ones. In contrast, in Winterfell, the children were not given free regin to say or do whatever they wanted, Robb included.

oh don't worry about it, you are one of the Hosts of this thread, it is your call to introduce themes or ask us to save them for later. Since it is my big idea I'm happy to bring it up as we go on. :)

There are a couple of points I'll make. The first is that Arya like Rickon is described as being wilder and fiercer from the start or at least from early on, in juxtaposition to Bran and possibly Sansa who are sweeter, Bran in particular is a very good natured soul (apart from when Freys are involved admittedly) and often described as being sweet (sweet prince etc).

Next there is something like a process of socialisation (possibly not exactly the term I'm looking for but never mind) in which recourse to violence becomes normal for Arya, but - and this I think is the clever bit by GRRM - it also becomes normal and acceptable to us as readers too. There is something similar going on with Tyrion, but with him it is already learnt behaviour and not something we see him learning. So I am not so sure that it is the case that because good guys don't do bad things that leads us to ignore it, so much as that a good guy can't do a bad deed therefore what a good guy does must be good - or maybe this works differently for us readers? I don't know, please tell me if you (plural, anybody , join in!) feel differently about this.

The first stage in this is that the victim 'deserves' the violence because we know they are not nice, sympathetic characters. Joffrey is a (insert whatever term you feel best) only his mother could love him the little... The stableboy is smirking at her, even knowing that her father is dead - what an illegetimate person! So GRRM makes it easy to be on Arya's side as she beats up Joffrey and kills the stableboy, it can come across as righteous and justifable.

But I think the point of this is for GRRM to lead us to a point like Tyrion's murder of Shae where we realise something profound about the character and something about how we have been (mis)reading the character and maybe something about ourselves and our attitudes towards violence too (aye, repent ye sinners for the holy festival of Sevenmass lies ahead of us :) ).

I tend to think of it more in terms of character progression. Arya starts out as a curious, lively, headstrong, passionate and friendly girl. She was always surrounded by violence (a formalized version of it that is meant to serve a purpose) but also supposed to be shielded from it, due to her gender. Her curious nature and the fact that the people she loves and tries to emulate (her father and brothers) engage in it, makes her want to be included. The physical exertion involved also agrees her inability to sit still. All this makes Needle and the fact that Jon gave it ot her an answered prayer.

Then Arya becomes first acquainted with loss (Bran's fall) and confronts someone who has no respect for her and no regard for her well-being or those around her and against whom she doesn't have the protection of rank she enjoyed at Winterfell (Joffrey). Her passion becomes rage and hate.

Already Arya finds herself in a new environment where the rules have changed. She is in quite a shock. Ned teels her that they are at war, while Syrio teaches how to fight (and more importantly how to think). Both provide her with means to function in her new surroundings and she begins to forge her stubborness into determination.

Sudddenly, all is taken away and she finds herself fighting for her life and freedom. Violence comes into context stripped of all the window-dressing, inhibitions and excuses in its raw form as a means of survival in a merciless, brutal environment. All these catalysts are thrown in to the mix with the raw ingredients that is Arya and she begins fermenting.

Joffrey's and stableboy's characters don't matter in this context. Our sympathy or lack off is in the end irrelevent. It is their actions that are stepping stones in Arya's path. The thing is that we literally see the characters' story through their own eyes so that their actions make sense and they take us along for the ride. No, we have not been misreading the character, he/she has simply changed since we first met them. And the transition is so smooth and seamless we somehow missed it. I find this to be a trend with all the characters that have been with us since AGOT. As the world grows darker and more dangerous so do the people that inhabit it.

[Lion of Judah]

This is very well put together by the OP and contributors, I originally delayed posting in this until I finished my Arya re-read. Let's just say a re re-read is forth coming, nice thread and very insightful.

[Lyanna Stark]

It might also be important to keep in mind that the scene is given to us by Sansa's pov. POVs are unreliable sources of other peoples behaviour and motives, and even actions and interactions. This scene from Arya's perspective might have sounded differently. Though in the end it doesn't give me grounds for concerns about Arya's mental health.

I don't think Sansa was lying here, if this is what you are aiming at with an unreliable narrator.

Also, it is worth to keep in mind that Arya did not admit to making Mycah fight with her. She did not take the responsibility for the situation in this fashion at all. Instead she shouts at Joffrey to stop, and then proceeds straight to hitting him as hard as she can over the head. Note as well that Joffrey has not threatened Arya herself here either, but is in his own backwards way trying to "defend" her from Mycah, whom he sees as a dastardly commoner hitting Sansa's nobly born sister.

[1234567]

. Joffrey completely ignores her and proceeds to carve Mycah's face.

this is an example about what I was talking about. Joff does not 'carve' Mycah's face. He presses the point of his sword into Mycah's cheek enough to draw blood. But Joff holds it there. His actions do not get any better or worse. Arya attacks when Joff doesn't do as she says and then says he'll only hurt Mycah a little.

I'm not sure even Joff at this point, deserved to have his head split open, rocks thrown at him and ten Nymeria attack him. Also even today, any child who did that to another child would be said to have violence issues. Joff maybe a little shit, but Arya's reaction was far from normal. It was exceptionally violent.

Also it may be loathsome behaviour but Joff had every right to treat Mucah like that according to the society of Westeros. Look at the Hedge Knight, where one of the Targ Prince open beats a defenseless girl and breaks her arm. Dunk steps in to help te girl and is condemned to lose the foot and the hand he struck the Prince with. He is saved by Egg and a trial by battle. Also Gendry talks about King Bob nearly riding him down, the Umber's still keep the first night, Tywin wiped out the Tarbecks and the Reines including the children etc. High Lords can and do abuse the smallfolk, nevermind Crown Princes and Kings. The rights of Princes are known. As Lyanna pointed out earlier one of the reasons Arya runs off is she knows she has done something wrong.

Only the whole point of this re-read is not re-read from the POV's POV, but analysing their character from an objective stance by the rules of the World of Westeros. Which is why we are including other character's chapters where Arya is talked about and mentioned. Also we are looking at foreshadowing, gender roles and how the character relates to the modern reader.

[The Sleeper]

this is an example about what I was talking about. Joff does not 'carve' Mycah's face. He presses the point of his sword into Mycah's cheek enough to draw blood. But Joff holds it there. His actions do not get any better or worse. Arya attacks when Joff doesn't do as she says and then says he'll only hurt Mycah a little.

Joffrey's actions don't get any worse because Arya does not let them become any worse. Joffrey says he won't hurt him ... much with his sword laid upon his cheek. At which point Arya whacks him in the head. This clearly denotes an intent to go further.

I'm not sure even Joff at this point, deserved to have his head split open, rocks thrown at him and ten Nymeria attack him. Also even today, any child who did that to another child would be said to have violence issues. Joff maybe a little shit, but Arya's reaction was far from normal. It was exceptionally violent.

I was not talking about the punishment due but whether his actions could elicit an extreme response. About Arya's response, I essentially said the same thing.

Also it may be loathsome behaviour but Joff had every right to treat Mucah like that according to the society of Westeros. Look at the Hedge Knight, where one of the Targ Prince open beats a defenseless girl and breaks her arm. Dunk steps in to help te girl and is condemned to lose the foot and the hand he struck the Prince with. He is saved by Egg and a trial by battle. Also Gendry talks about King Bob nearly riding him down, the Umber's still keep the first night, Tywin wiped out the Tarbecks and the Reines including the children etc. High Lords can and do abuse the smallfolk, nevermind Crown Princes and Kings. The rights of Princes are known. As Lyanna pointed out earlier one of the reasons Arya runs off is she knows she has done something wrong.

Their status does not mean their not held to some standards of common sense for both ethical and practical reasons. The king's word is law but this also means that the king is the one who must uphold it and the king is also meant to be he source of justice and peace. Tywin himself meant to curb Joffrey's vulgar and juvenile displays of power and Baelor Breakspear confessed to Dunk that he might have done the same thing. Baelor himself was the crown prince and had authority of his nephew. What was called into question was not the morality of the action taken, but the fact that it violated social order. I do not discount the consequences of the latter and neither does Martin, but the fact is that Arya due to the peculiarities of her upbringing has little practcal understanding of it and it doesn't register for her on an emotional level at all. I count this as a point in her favor.

Only the whole point of this re-read is not re-read from the POV's POV, but analysing their character from an objective stance by the rules of the World of Westeros. Which is why we are including other character's chapters where Arya is talked about and mentioned. Also we are looking at foreshadowing, gender roles and how the character relates to the modern reader.

This was a response to Lummel's comments about reader's perception of the character and particularly on how a good character can only do good. The summary was meant to indicate how Arya's propensity for violence came about and how the reader might come to identify with and understand the character through immersion.

[Zacker]

I don't think Sansa was lying here, if this is what you are aiming at with an unreliable narrator.

Also, it is worth to keep in mind that Arya did not admit to making Mycah fight with her. She did not take the responsibility for the situation in this fashion at all. Instead she shouts at Joffrey to stop, and then proceeds straight to hitting him as hard as she can over the head. Note as well that Joffrey has not threatened Arya herself here either, but is in his own backwards way trying to "defend" her from Mycah, whom he sees as a dastardly commoner hitting Sansa's nobly born sister.

No, I didn't think she was lying. I think we are shown what the POVs experience and I'm doubtful that they could lie deliberately to us. I mean that POVs (and people) don't understand everything they experience correctly, especially what other people are doing. Sansa may see Joffrey scratch Mycah's cheek whereas Arya sees him drive the sword into his flesh, Mycah thinks he is getting killed and Joffrey goes 'Fuck, I nicked him. Oh well, shit happens'.

[Daenerys is my queen]

The Warrior and the Stranger would fit with her future but I pointed to those two because of the stranger around the corner and her holding the candle in her fist. My personal preference for the metaphor would be carrying the Mother and the Father with her but they seemed less connected than those two immediate references surrounding the candles. Cat does see her face in the Warrior so that fits with the Warrior/Strnger take.

Godswoods are known for the huge tree in the center. Ned described this one as an acre with a great oak in the center yet Arya calls it "little." I assume this is in comparison to Winterfell's which both Tyrion and Theon comment on with a degree of awe. She also passing through the houses of the Old and New Gods on her escape route so the religious places seem like they ought to be meaningful and "little" may matter in this context. She does end up in a religious place too. I also think this is the only time anyone calls a godswood "little" so it stood out.

I think Lummel is correct in that the Up or Down paths is a something. Bran has me tied in a cognitive knot on this one because he is always descending (Winterfell Crypts, under the Nightfort, the cave with Bloodraven) but is learning to fly through warging which is the ultimate ascent. The caves with Ygritte was a hypothetical path under the Wall and a temptation to stay underground that Jon rejects and takes the ascent over the Wall. I'm certain there's a plethora of other examples. Jon and Sansa are also in public positions exercising public power while Bran and Arya seem destined to exercise power from the shadows. Very nice catch, Lyanna. I think you've pointed out a major Stark family theme.

It also occured to me that this might just be true:

Made me think of this line.

The stableboy was definitely written as a deserving recipient. He even hisses that evil snake. Personally if Arya told him to be quiet and he just yelled in panic for fear of being seen with her and caught up in the Game I wouldn't have blinked if she ran him through. I'm probably a bad example because I didn't blink when she started asking the Tickler questions. You reap what you sow and one ought not to interfere with a harvest with Winter coming (of course it could be that I'm just a cold hearted bastard.)

Good points! :)

this is an example about what I was talking about. Joff does not 'carve' Mycah's face. He presses the point of his sword into Mycah's cheek enough to draw blood. But Joff holds it there. His actions do not get any better or worse. Arya attacks when Joff doesn't do as she says and then says he'll only hurt Mycah a little.

I'm not sure even Joff at this point, deserved to have his head split open, rocks thrown at him and ten Nymeria attack him. Also even today, any child who did that to another child would be said to have violence issues. Joff maybe a little shit, but Arya's reaction was far from normal. It was exceptionally violent.

Also it may be loathsome behaviour but Joff had every right to treat Mucah like that according to the society of Westeros. Look at the Hedge Knight, where one of the Targ Prince open beats a defenseless girl and breaks her arm. Dunk steps in to help te girl and is condemned to lose the foot and the hand he struck the Prince with. He is saved by Egg and a trial by battle. Also Gendry talks about King Bob nearly riding him down, the Umber's still keep the first night, Tywin wiped out the Tarbecks and the Reines including the children etc. High Lords can and do abuse the smallfolk, nevermind Crown Princes and Kings. The rights of Princes are known. As Lyanna pointed out earlier one of the reasons Arya runs off is she knows she has done something wrong.

Only the whole point of this re-read is not re-read from the POV's POV, but analysing their character from an objective stance by the rules of the World of Westeros. Which is why we are including other character's chapters where Arya is talked about and mentioned. Also we are looking at foreshadowing, gender roles and how the character relates to the modern reader.

Joffrey was hurting Arya's friend. Arya acted instinctively and fought back. It might be against the laws of Westeros but that doesn't matter. What Joffrey was doing was wrong, he deserved to be punished. It's not like Arya would have killed him. Joffrey on the other hand....who knows what he would have done. And like another poster said, Arya isn't used to having to worry about all the rank stuff since she comes from Winterfell where she's allowed to interact with common people all she wants. And I don't think Ned and Cat really explained to her why she should act a certain way in KL and how to avoid a problem like this.

[1234567]

Their status does not mean their not held to some standards of common sense for both ethical and practical reasons. The king's word is law but this also means that the king is the one who must uphold it and the king is also meant to be he source of justice and peace. Tywin himself meant to curb Joffrey's vulgar and juvenile displays of power and Baelor Breakspear confessed to Dunk that he might have done the same thing. Baelor himself was the crown prince and had authority of his nephew.

Joffrey was hurting Arya's friend. Arya acted instinctively and fought back. It might be against the laws of Westeros but that doesn't matter. What Joffrey was doing was wrong, he deserved to be punished. It's not like Arya would have killed him.

Punished by another adult but not by Arya. She is not judge, jury and excecutioner. And you are completely correct that Joff's behaviour eventually got him assassinated, extreme behaviour is not tolerated forever and even with King's there is only so far a bad King can go before he is diposed.

Arya tried to stick up for her friend which is honourable and again showed an implicit part of her personality that relates to being an authority figure, as her father as a High Lord did take action on behalf of the smallfolk, but her reaction was overkill and not her social position to do. She or Nymeria could have killed Joff. She split the back of his head open (head injuries, even small ones can be fatal due to compression etc) and Nymeria badly bite his arm (had she nicked an artery Joff would have died).

Joffrey on the other hand....who knows what he would have done.

We know Joff was capable of anything (mainly due to hindsight). Arya does not know this at the time and just as Sansa was too passive in trying to solve the situation, Arya was too aggressive.

And like another poster said, Arya isn't used to having to worry about all the rank stuff since she comes from Winterfell where she's allowed to interact with common people all she wants.

I don't think the text exactly supports this completely. Arya certainly has more interaction with the smallfolk etc, but she is still a high lord's daughter and has her lessons with the Septa and is expected to be with the higher ranked women sewing. There is an interesting bit about this on SSM: GRRM

"[Are highborn ladies trained to a lot of practical things, like serving guests, making cheese, and so on?]

Sansa is more than just a young lady. She's the daughter, not just of a noble, but of one of the most powerful nobles in Westeros. The great houses stand far above the lesser nobles, as the lesser nobles do above the smallfolk.

She would not make cheese, no. But Arya might think it would be fun."

While Arya might think it is fun her status is incredibly high in society and although she interact with others lower on the social scale, they are very aware she is a high lord's daughter. This was discussed earlier in the thread though.

From Cat and Ned's POV's we see that Arya in Cat's mind needs her behaviour refined and Ned gives her the speech about family and sticking together and obeying, which we see her taking to heart and running from Myrcella, Tommen etc so as not to embarass her family and get in trouble.

And I don't think Ned and Cat really explained to her why she should act a certain way in KL and how to avoid a problem like this.

Given their own fears about King's Landing and suspisions about the Lannisters, it always baffles me why neither parent tried to impress upon their children earlier (or at all in Sansa's case) how dangerous KL was for them. Or given that one of the first things Ned thinks upon getting to KL, is that he must remember he is no longer the supreme Lord in his element but among many equally ranking Lords, I'm also amazed he didn't explain to his daughter that the Royal family were much Higher status than them and they would be expected to obey them (Arya refusing the Queen's invitation being a case in point) and that KL would be incredibly different from Winterfell.

I do not discount the consequences of the latter and neither does Martin, but the fact is that Arya due to the peculiarities of her upbringing has little practcal understanding of it and it doesn't register for her on an emotional level at all. I count this as a point in her favor.

Indeed this is one of the reasons why she is so easy to love as a character. She fits a lot of our beliefs and holds ideas that are easier for us to relate to. She is in this way very modern although to to the point that she is out of line with the genre setting.

This was a response to Lummel's comments about reader's perception of the character and particularly on how a good character can only do good. The summary was meant to indicate how Arya's propensity for violence came about and how the reader might come to identify with and understand the character through immersion.

Sorry I misunderstood. Very good points. I think it is also important to look at the character without the emotional pull. Certainly we can see the journey Arya's character through her eyes and empathize (lots of people love Jaime since he got a POV) but it is also important to objectively view the character from an external look at their actions etc, building up from all the various POV's where she is mentioned as well as her own.

As this was now a couple of chapters ago and it will start derailing the thread (as we are currently discussing, with her escape and the next chapter going up tomorrow) I'll leave discussion of it, but add your points into the discussion summary relating to the previous chapter.

[1234567]

Overview of Arya Chapter 2-4 Disscussion

Currently under construction

[Daenerys is my queen]

Punished by another adult but not by Arya. She is not judge, jury and excecutioner. And you are completely correct that Joff's behaviour eventually got him assassinated, extreme behaviour is not tolerated forever and even with King's there is only so far a bad King can go before he is diposed.

Arya tried to stick up for her friend which is honourable and again showed an implicit part of her personality that relates to being an authority figure, as her father as a High Lord did take action on behalf of the smallfolk, but her reaction was overkill and not her social position to do. She or Nymeria could have killed Joff. She split the back of his head open (head injuries, even small ones can be fatal due to compression etc) and Nymeria badly bite his arm (had she nicked an artery Joff would have died).

We know Joff was capable of anything (mainly due to hindsight). Arya does not know this at the time and just as Sansa was too passive in trying to solve the situation, Arya was too aggressive.

I don't think the text exactly supports this completely. Arya certainly has more interaction with the smallfolk etc, but she is still a high lord's daughter and has her lessons with the Septa and is expected to be with the higher ranked women sewing. There is an interesting bit about this on SSM: GRRM

"[Are highborn ladies trained to a lot of practical things, like serving guests, making cheese, and so on?]

Sansa is more than just a young lady. She's the daughter, not just of a noble, but of one of the most powerful nobles in Westeros. The great houses stand far above the lesser nobles, as the lesser nobles do above the smallfolk.

She would not make cheese, no. But Arya might think it would be fun."

While Arya might think it is fun her status is incredibly high in society and although she interact with others lower on the social scale, they are very aware she is a high lord's daughter. This was discussed earlier in the thread though.

From Cat and Ned's POV's we see that Arya in Cat's mind needs her behaviour refined and Ned gives her the speech about family and sticking together and obeying, which we see her taking to heart and running from Myrcella, Tommen etc so as not to embarass her family and get in trouble.

Given their own fears about King's Landing and suspisions about the Lannisters, it always baffles me why neither parent tried to impress upon their children earlier (or at all in Sansa's case) how dangerous KL was for them. Or given that one of the first things Ned thinks upon getting to KL, is that he must remember he is no longer the supreme Lord in his element but among many equally ranking Lords, I'm also amazed he didn't explain to his daughter that the Royal family were much Higher status than them and they would be expected to obey them (Arya refusing the Queen's invitation being a case in point) and that KL would be incredibly different from Winterfell.

Sorry I misunderstood. Very good points. I think it is also important to look at the character without the emotional pull. Certainly we can see the journey Arya's character through her eyes and empathize (lots of people love Jaime since he got a POV) but it is also important to objectively view the character from an external look at their actions etc, building up from all the various POV's where she is mentioned as well as her own.

As this was now a couple of chapters ago and it will start derailing the thread (as we are currently discussing, with her escape and the next chapter going up tomorrow) I'll leave discussion of it, but add your points into the discussion summary relating to the previous chapter.

It might not have been her position but who cares. She was sticking up for her friend. And I don't think that she meant to seriously hurt Joff...well ok she wanted to hurt him but not kill him. Arya might have been too aggressive but I understand why she was. Joffrey's a jerk and he was attacking her friend. True she is from a higher rank but she does interact with the small folk. :) It is very surprising Ned & Cat didn't try to tell Arya & Sansa to be careful in KL. And we're supposed to look at characters without getting emotional? I can so not do that. Better get out of here then. :lol: :leaving:

[Lyanna Stark]

This is a critical re-read, hence it is the point of it all to care. :)

It may be a good opportunity to remind our readers that we do expect arguments to discuss the text and be very close to the text, as this is a re-read thread, not a general discuss whether we approve of Arya or not thread.

And we're supposed to look at characters without getting emotional? I can so not do that. Better get out of here then. :lol: :leaving:

The point of a critical reread is to try and be as objective as possible, when possible. Not always something that is easily done, of course. It does help to base any interpretation closely on the text, however.

[Lyanna Stark]

AGOT Arya V:

Summary:

This chapter could easily be called "There is no escape, no way out" and it gives an increasingly claustrophic feel, I think. See for yourself!

It starts off with:

The scent of hot bread drifting from the shops along the Street of Flour was sweeter than any perfume Arya had ever smelled.

Arya is hungry and misses proper food. She tries to ask a pie seller for a tart, but he’ll have none of it if she cannot pay. It turns out Arya has survived by capturing and eating pigeons, but the pie seller won’t accept a pigeon as payment either. Instead he scares her with the gold cloaks’ presence. The Gold Cloaks had not suspected her since she fled, but she is wary of them none the less. Arya has stayed as far away from the castle as she can, and has taken to sleeping in Flea Bottom which she has found is aptly named. There she hears all sorts of rumours.

The talk in Flea Bottom was that the Gold cloaks had thrown in with the Lannisters, their commander raised to a lord, with lands on the Trident and a seat on the king’s council.

She mentions other rumours too, often they contradict each other. The one thing everyone can agree on seems to be that King Robert Baratheon is dead though.

Arya wishes to leave Kings Landing, but it is proving difficult.

Every day since her escape from the Red Keep, Arya had visited each of the seven gates in turn.

We learn from Arya that the Mud Gate and the Gate of the Gods are open, but only to people entering. Leaving is trickier however:

Those who were allowed to leave left by the King’s Gate or the Iron Gate, but Lannister men-at-arms in crimson cloaks and lion-crested helms manned the guard pots there.

The guards are searching wagons and carriages, opening saddlebags and questioning everyone who is leaving.

In order to eat, Arya had learnt that she can take the pigeons she catches to pot shops in Flea Bottom and exchange them for brown stew and a heel of bread, although she wishes for a cup of milk and a lemon cake. However, the pot shops and Flea Bottom are not always a friendly environment. Apart from having trouble with befriending the local kids in Flea Bottom and having the things she hoped to sell stolen, there are other unsavoury residents too.

The only thing was, the pot-shops were never empty, and even as she bolted down her food, Arya could feel them watching. Some of them stared at her boots and cloak, and she knew what they were thinking. With others, she could almost feel their eyes crawling under her leathers; she didn’t know what they were thinking, and that scared her even more.

We see that apart from the food she could enjoy as Arya Stark of Winterfell, Arya is also missing her family.

A whooping gang of small children went running past, chasing a rolling hoop. Arya stared at them with resentment, remembering the times she’d played at hoops with Brand and Jon and their baby brother Rickon. She wondered how big Rickon had grown, and whether Bran was sad. She would have given anything if Jon had been there to call her "little sister" and muss her hair.

Arya decides to visit the riverfront as based on old Nan’s stories.

Maybe that was the way out. Old Nan used to tell stories of boys who stowed away on trading galleys and sailed off into all kinds of adventures. Maybe Arya could do that too. She decided to visit the riverfront.

Once there, it’s mostly empty and she sees only some war galleys, but not much more, until:

When she saw the guardsmen on the third pier, in grey woolen cloaks trimmer with white satin, her heart almost stopped in her chest. The sight of Winterfell’s colors brought tears in her eyes.

It turns out the men are guarding a Myrish trading galley called the Wind Witch, which the Stark sisters were supposed to be on, sailing north. However, once Arya approaches, she is crying and when rubbing at her eyes to dry it, decides to apply Syrio’s method of looking with her eyes.

Look with your eyes, she heard Syrio whisper.

Arya looked. She knew all of her father’s men. The three in grey cloaks were strangers.

Arya pretends to offer to sell the guards a pigeon, but they chase her away thinking that she is a boy.

Once Arya is back in Flea Bottom, the bells start tolling again, and she follows the throng of people up to Visenya’s hill. On the way there, she learns to her horror that they are talking about the Hand of the King being beheaded. Desperate to see, she climbs the statue of Baelor the Blessed.

She looked up at Baelor the Blessed, the septon king. Sliding her stick sword through her belt, Arya began to climb. Her broken thumbnail left smears of blood on the painted marble, but she made it up, and wedged herself between the king’s feet.

That was when she saw her father.

In front of Baelor’s Sept stands Eddard Stark, accused of treason, and Arya soon realizes that he is in the process of confessing, too. Arya notices the fat High Septon behind her haggard looking father, she notices Joffrey dressed in crimson, Cersei next to him in black and crimson, the Hound with a white cloak over dull grey armour surrounded by other kingsguard, Varys in soft slippers and a damask robe, she spots Littlefinger although doesn’t know his name. She sees Sansa there looking happy and very dressed up in blue silk and silver bracelets. People are throwing stones and Arya is afraid for her father.

The High Septon knelt before Joffrey and his mother. "As we sin, so do we suffer," he intoned in a deep swelling voice much louder than Father’s. "This man has confessed his crimes in the sight of gods and men, here in this holy place."

The Septon says the Gods are just but also merciful, and asks Joffrey what should be done. When Joffrey smiles at Sansa, Arya thinks that the gods have heard her prayers to save her father, but then Joffrey asks Ser Ilyn to bring him Lord Stark’s head. The High Septon and Varys seem shocked, but they are powerless. In comes Ilyn Payne, instead.

Lords and knights moved aside as he stepped through, tall and fleshless, a skeleton in iron mail, the King’s Justice. Dimply, as if from far off, Arya heard her sister scream. Sansa had fallen to her knees, sobbing hysterically. Ser Ilyn Payne climbed the steps of the pulpit.

Arya jumps down from her position at Baelor’s feet and tries to fight her way through the crowd with the help of Needle, but to no avail. She gets closer and closer, but is powerless to do anything.

Ser Ilyn drew a two-handed greatsword from the scabbard on his back. As he lifted the blade above his head, sunlight seemed to ripple and dance down the dark metal, glinting off an edge sharper than any razor. Ice, she thought, he has Ice!

Yoren finds her in the crowd, although Arya does not recognize him at first.

And then a hand shot out of the press and closed round her arm like a wolf trap, so hard that Needle went flying from her hand. Arya was wrenched off her feet. She would have fallen if he hadn’t held her up, as easy as if she were a doll.

Yoren tells her not to look, to shut her mouth and close her eyes. Then asks her to look at him instead, and recognize him. He also calls her "boy". Eventually she remembers who Yoren is, and he drags her away. Despite his rude and uncouth demeanor, Yoren gives her back Needle and tells her he hopes she can use it.

Then the chapter ends on a cliffhanger, with Yoren taking out his knife and moving it towards Arya’s face, and Arya thinking he is going to kill her, and she fights.

As the blade flashed toward her face, Arya threw herself backward, kicking wildly, wrenching her head from side to side, btu he had her by the hair, so strong, she could feel her scalp tearing and on her lips the salt taste of tears.

Analysis:

As I mentioned in the beginning, this is an almost claustrophobic chapter. It starts with Arya having been able to evade the gold cloaks, but also with the burning questions in the background of how long that is going to last, how she will find food, and ultimately escape. Despite her spying on the gates every day, no solution is presenting itself. Then we have the unsavoury elements on Kings Landing stealing her stuff, staring at her in the pot-shops and following her in the alleys. The local children are unfriendly and sometimes violent. Once at the docks, the Winterfell looking guards are not what they seem, and hostile. Then in the end, Arya is crowded on all sides by people who want her father dead, and she is forced to be there when he is beheaded, without being able to do anything. Lastly, she is herself cornered by Yoren, and the chapter ends with her mounting fear coming true: she is captured with no escape.

Of course, we know now that Yoren means to save her, but within the structure of the chapter, that is by no means obvious at first, and it is above all not obvious to Arya.

If in previous chapters, we have a literal descent into the underworld/hell/darkness, this feels like a metaphorical descent into the same dark place. The surroundings are threatening, and it reaches a fever pitch at the end. It’s also very much Arya having to say goodbye to her childhood, in a natural continuation of last chapter. Here she sees other children and misses her siblings. She thinks of milk and lemoncakes and misses when she could eat proper food. Her things are stolen and she misses safety. Arya is thrust violently and remorselessly into an uncertain, cruel adult world, where even the guards looking like real Winterfell guards are imposters.

Foreshadowing and symbolism

Food: For some reason there is a lot of food symbolism in this chapter. (I am eagerly awaiting Blisscraft's and Ragnorak's take on the foodstuffs here, there is so much to delve into.)

It starts out with Arya being hungry, and I was reminded of the chanting at the bread riots, where the populace at King’s Landing care more for bread than kings, i.e. King Bread is more important than a king of flesh and blood. When it comes to the basics of survival, food is key. This is further enhanced when Arya wishes she could have some of the tarts.

The smells sang of blueberries and lemons and apricots.

They all have the "tastes of summer" in them and she misses them wistfully, perhaps another sign of that autumn/winter is upon us?

Pigeons: Further, Arya catches fat pigeons and she comments on them being fat and easy to catch to a passing septon. Later on, we have the fat High Septon caught unawares by The Ned’s execution. For some reason I connected the useless parts of the faith with fat pigeons, especially since the more, well, active part of the Faith we see later are called sparrows, as an opposite to the fat, lazy pigeons we see occupying the powerful positions within the Faith as of AGOT.

Interestingly perhaps, the pie seller tells Arya that the Others can take her pigeons. Going by that the Others soon may be in all sorts of places in Westeros, this may be an ominous portent for the Faith. Or perhaps just for the more useless, inactive parts of society?

Robert’s death is again connected to boar, whether he ate it or got gutted by it seems a point of contention however. There’s also a rumour that he choked on a fish bone.

In Flea Bottom, the stew is brown, but seems to at least contain some basic vegetables and grains plus a complementary chunk of bread, although Arya prefers not to think of what the meat may be. We hear that the pot-shop owners pay well for a litter of puppies, I assume to be used in the pots.

When thinking of escaping, we again have Arya fantasizing about orchards and berries outside of Kings Landing, definitely dreams tinged with a touch of summer there. She also spends a lot of her time in the Street of Flour, further enhancing the food imagery. The Redwyne twins pass her by, and the Redwynes are of course linked to the making and growing of wines, another image of prosperity, growth and summer.

Faith: Continuing the Septon/Pigeon line of thinking, among other things..

The second bit that stood out is the religious imagery and in this case it’s the Faith of the Seven that is being strongly linked to Kings Landing and the government there. We have the High Pigeon Septon, the Septon watching Arya catch pigeons. In the last chapter we also had Arya stealing candles from the Sept, and we have Eddard Stark confessing his treason in front of the Seven on the steps of Baelor’s Sept. We also have this bit, which is rather evocative:

She looked up at Baelor the Blessed, the septon king. Sliding her stick sword through her belt, Arya began to climb. Her broken thumbnail left smears of blood on the painted marble, but she made it up, and wedged herself between the king’s feet.

That was when she saw her father.

Blood on the septon king while wedging herself between his feet. The first time Stark blood is being spilt in front of Baelor that day, with Ned being the second one.

It also strongly suggest that the Seven and the religion of the Seven are not friendly places for a Stark. The people who seem associated with it have a different allegiance than the Stark one. 　Another tidbit is that Ned does not confess in front of the Old Gods. This man, who is strongly devout in his faith, swears now to the Seven.

"Let the High Septon and Baelor the Beloved and the Seven bear witness to the truth of what I say: Joffrey Baratheon is the true heir to the Iron Throne, and by grace of all the gods, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm."

Sure, we have "gods" in plural and a confession in front of gods and men, but the Seven are the ones bearing witness, not the Old Gods.

Another interesting tidbit with regards to religion and sin, and confessing to sins, is when the High Septon does the following:

The High Septon knelt before Joffrey and his mother. "As we sin, so do we suffer," he intoned…

But as we readers know, the sinners here are more likely to be "Joffrey and his mother" than Eddard Stark. And as we know, they too will suffer later on, especially Joffrey who will meet the same end as Ned soon enough, i.e. death.

Yoren the uncouth savior: Yoren comes off as not very pleasant here, but as readers we know that he intends to save Arya when he recognizes her. However, his methods are rough and his manners uncouth. He’s clearly not used to handling highborn girls so treats her in the same way as a Nightswatch recruit or any other peasant boy. What struck me here was the similarity in wording and description in how Yoren interacts with her compared to how Sandor interacts with Sansa later in ACOK. Both girls are initially threatened and repulsed by the uncouth manner to which they are not accustomed, and they interpret the actions of Yoren and Sandor as threatening and hostile, while with the wisdom of hindsight we can say that it’s not so. Yoren scolds Arya for being a stupid boy, and Sandor scolds Sansa for being a stupid little bird in a similar manner. Both men also act as protectors of the girls and Yoren even facilitates Arya’s escape from Kings Landing. (Interestingly, Yoren is wearing black in this chapter, while Sandor is adorned in White; one Nights Watch, the other kingsguard. Opposite yet similar.)

Ser Ilyn Payne as Death Incarnate: We’ve seen Sansa react badly to Ilyn Payne in the Sansa reread, but here we also have a clear statement from Arya how she views Payne, and it’s very much aligned with Sansa’s thoughts. Ser Ilyn comes off almost as a spectre, or as an evil spirit. To top it all off, he’s wielding Ice as well, beheading Ned Stark with Ned Stark’s own sword. I don’t think Ser Ilyn could come off as more of a villain if he tried.

Gender:

I touched upon earlier that Arya strongly self identifies as a girl, and we see this again this chapter. She pretends to be a boy, but when Yoren tells her she is one, she protests. She doesn’t want to be a boy for good, to Arya herself, she is a girl.

There’s also the rather creepy section of the people in the pot-shops looking at her as if she has no clothes on, which reminds me of how Sansa felt when Littlefinger was looking at her earlier in AGOT when she appeared in front of the council. It enhances the creepy predator vibe of Littlefinger, and makes you wonder if the men in the pot-shops cared whether Arya was a girl or a boy, what they were after was only a victim.

Not directly connected to Arya, but we also see Joffrey proclaiming that Cersei and Sansa have the "soft hearts of women", and that he is made of sterner stuff. Ironic, considering that we’ll see through the novels that Arya, Cat, Dany and Sansa end up having anything but "soft hearts" and have to deal with some extremely harrowing situations. They all end up showing far more bravery than Joffrey manages. Cersei might be many things too, but she does not strike me as a coward, exactly. Nor as someone having a "soft heart".

[Lummel]

...Joffrey's and stableboy's characters don't matter in this context. Our sympathy or lack off is in the end irrelevent. It is their actions that are stepping stones in Arya's path. The thing is that we literally see the characters' story through their own eyes so that their actions make sense and they take us along for the ride. No, we have not been misreading the character, he/she has simply changed since we first met them. And the transition is so smooth and seamless we somehow missed it. I find this to be a trend with all the characters that have been with us since AGOT. As the world grows darker and more dangerous so do the people that inhabit it.

Um. Well Arya has a tendency to violence from the first few chapters and I am not sure that she becomes more violent. What changes is the presentation and the context.

We can also see that GRRM pulls out the stops in setting up Arya and Tyrion for instance as sympathetic characters in a way that he doesn't do for instance with Catelyn. Catelyn doesn't kill anybody or break anybody's fingers in the first couple of books but doesn't inspire anywhere near the same level of affection as Arya or Tyrion. My theory is that this is quite deliberate on GRRM's part. We are led to accept violence on the part of some characters.

Although at the same time I do think that character change and development is very important and does happen - just in Arya's case that seems to be more about learning self-control and restraint, not about becoming fierce and even more wild.

...What was called into question was not the morality of the action taken, but the fact that it violated social order. I do not discount the consequences of the latter and neither does Martin, but the fact is that Arya due to the peculiarities of her upbringing has little practcal understanding of it and it doesn't register for her on an emotional level at all. I count this as a point in her favor...

Well Jon knows stories about Aerion Brightflame. They were part of the repetoire of Old Nan and I think anybody who grows up in a country with a monarch understands it is a bad idea to hit the heir to the throne. The interesting point is that this doesn't stop her. I don't think that being wild and unemotional to that extent is a good thing, it is a sign of having no self control. It is something that we'll see again too.

...And we're supposed to look at characters without getting emotional? I can so not do that. Better get out of here then. :lol: :leaving:

If your response is emotional then your response is emotional. Personally I think that is something to contribute, provided you can look and explain why you respond emotionally. Is that a response that GRRM wants you to have reading the chapter? HOw does he get tyou to respond in that way? What is the affect of your repsonse - does it get to look at the story differently.

[Cruella]

Arya has some freaking good eyesight, that's for sure. She even notices fashion details! Amazing.

I thought the cliffhanger was very cheap. I knew immediately what he was doing, and didn't expect Arya to be in danger for a second. However, to create fake tension, GRRM has Yoren not warn Arya that he's about to cut her hair off - no wonder she freaked out. Speak up, Yoren! It's like we're stuck in some bad cheesy TV of yesteryear when cliffhangers were a must.

[Daphne23]

Well Jon knows stories about Aerion Brightflame. They were part of the repetoire of Old Nan and I think anybody who grows up in a country with a monarch understands it is a bad idea to hit the heir to the throne. The interesting point is that this doesn't stop her. I don't think that being wild and unemotional to that extent is a good thing, it is a sign of having no self control. It is something that we'll see again too.

I agree. Arya's ignorance of social norms is one of the factors that leads to Mycah's death - being highborn, she herself doesn't suffer for striking Joffrey, but Mycah does. I am sympathetic towards Arya here, as she's only nine and she could not have predicted this tragic turn of events (and she later blames herself completely for what happened, which is untrue) but her lack of judgement in this situation is definitely a flaw. To challenge the social code, you first need to be aware of what it is, and Arya demonstrates that she either doesn't know or doesn't care.

Moving on to Arya V...

She gave the pushcart man a look, remembering what Syrio had told her about seeing. He was short, with a little round belly, and when he moved he seemed to favour his left leg a little She was just thinking that if she snatched a tart and ran he would never be able to catch her when he said, "You be keeping your filthy hands off. The gold cloaks know how to deal with thieving little gutter rats, that they do."

I think this is an interesting little scene as it demonstrates both Arya's strengths and (present) limitations when it comes to observation. She's astute enough to sum up the pushcart man's physicality with a glance, but she fails to assess the wider situation (the two City Watchmen nearby) and to guard her own facial expression (the pushcart man knows at once what she's thinking). These skills, especially the second, will be developed later in her arc.

Arya stared at them [other children] with resentment, remembering the times she'd played at hoops with Bran and Jon and their baby brother Rickon. She wondered how big Rickon had grown, and whether Bran were sad. She would have given anything if Jon had been here

I only realised on re-reading Arya IV and V that, while Sansa is often criticised for not thinking of Arya in her captivity in GoT, Arya doesn't think of Sansa once either until she sees her at Baelor's Sept, despite the fact she escaped from the castle fearing for her own life and watching her father's men dying around her. And when she does see her, her reaction is not relief that she is alive, but pretty negative:

And there in their midst was Sansa... Arya scowled, wondering what her sister was doing here, why she looked so happy.

Although part of Arya's reaction seems to be related to Sansa's expression (Arya doesn't know that Sansa is relieved, thinking that Ned will be spared) it still seems odd that she doesn't react at all to seeing that her sister is well after their separation. This isn't a criticism of Arya as such, but I do wonder why GRRM seems to make the sisters so uninterested in each other's well-being, when they both think of other family members in this period and hope they are OK. Perhaps this is simply an oversight? I had theorised that Sansa was simply blocking out her fear that Arya might be dead, but this interpretation doesn't seem to work for Arya, and wasn't really satisfactory for Sansa either.

As a sidenote, it's rather chilling that the last memory Arya has of Sansa before Yoren drags her away is

Sansa had fallen to her knees, sobbing hysterically... She could still hear Sansa screaming

We do, however, find out that the sisters share something very important in common:

Arya would have given anything for a cup of milk and a lemon cake

Seriously, though, I think this is symbolic of home for Arya, and perhaps why she longs so much for this particular food during her time in Flea Bottom.

[Lyanna Stark]

Arya has some freaking good eyesight, that's for sure. She even notices fashion details! Amazing.

I thought the cliffhanger was very cheap. I knew immediately what he was doing, and didn't expect Arya to be in danger for a second. However, to create fake tension, GRRM has Yoren not warn Arya that he's about to cut her hair off - no wonder she freaked out. Speak up, Yoren! It's like we're stuck in some bad cheesy TV of yesteryear when cliffhangers were a must.

To be sure, the cliffhanger is pretty transparent.

On the other hand, looking at the structure of the chapter and the increasing feeling of paranoia, fear and of getting trapped, I thought it fitting that Arya gets "trapped" in the end. (I've read the chapter four times this week, I think, and it seemed almost built along the same structure as a horror movie is to create a tense atmosphere and that sense of dread and lurking fear. Or maybe I've just binged too much on Lovecraft, it's entirely possible. ) The whole chapter has this ominous feeling, first with the unsavoury men in Flea Bottom, then with the fake Winterfell guards, the gold cloaks everywhere, the meanspirited children. Then the bell starts tolling and once we reach Baelor's, it almost reaches a fever pitch, with its culmination in the "trapped" ending and Arya's panic and getting cornered and caught.

Interestingly perhaps, it actually diverts attention from the fact that Ned has just been beheaded. The focus lies strongly on Arya and her feelings of fear, and less so on that Ned just lost his head. I'm not sure why this narrative approach was taken actually, but perhaps to make us sympathise more with Arya's plight? We see Arya here thinking Sansa must be crazy to look happy and we also have some jealousy about her looking well fed, clean and all dolled up, I think. (Adding more fuel to the fire for the "sibling hatred brigade" perhaps? )

I only realised on re-reading Arya IV and V that, while Sansa is often criticised for not thinking of Arya in her captivity in GoT, Arya doesn't think of Sansa once either until she sees her at Baelor's Sept, despite the fact she escaped from the castle fearing for her own life and watching her father's men dying around her. And when she does see her, her reaction is not relief that she is alive, but pretty negative:

Indeed. The Arya - Sansa conflict is laid down very early, and their reactions to eachother for quite a while reflect this. It's most likely laying the groundwork for a later conflict they will need to work through since there is no resolution to it in AGOT, it remains unfinished, if you will, for later novels. It leaves lots of questions about how Sansa and Arya can reconcile in the future, and put their differences aside.

[Cruella]

It seems very unnecessary to me to add this artificial scare on top of very real horror - Ned getting killed. To me it actually diluted the tension, as I rolled my eyes a little even on first read through. Also weird that it is second "she's dead" cliffhanger, we have another with RW, which is not to be discussed at the moment, of course, but I had the same reaction there as well.

I totally agree about writer playing with our sympathies, I hope Lummel's right and it's getting us somewhere interesting. It often does (Jaime, etc), so it may be right.

I remember being dissapointed with this chapter - I couldn't believe we're not getting one last look at Ned's thoughts about his life choices, any conclusion. I felt like people probably felt when watching last Sopranos episode. In retrospect, I'll have to live with his thoughts in his last chapter.

Poor Ser Ilyn - if he were lesser executor, we could get a scene much more gruesome. I don't think Arya spends much time thinking about her father's confession, just like other Starks - but that's for the future as well I guess.

ETA: I agree - I am not sure I even buy that girls don't think about each other in circumsances like these. Being victims of same people and same situation would "bond" most people to some degree, even those who really did not care about each other before. That's why it is so popular in romantic movies! ;) Not thinking about someone who's fate might be indicative of yours is just out and out weird. I am not talking about noble things like sisterly love even. People who annoy you all the time also aren't easily forgettable.

[1234567]

<snip>

I believe that GRRM uses the sentimental writing technique with several of his characters from time to time and that Arya certainly has time when she is under that umbrella. It is a very effective writing style to elicit te exact response required from your readership and although currently out of vogue, I think does have merit as a technique. It is used in TV and TV series a lot. Given GRRM's previous career as a script writer, some of that style comes through his writing.

This chapter is incredibly evocative of sights and sounds and as Lyanna said the claustrophobia. There are unfriendly faces at every turn. She is being hunted and the city is walled up against her. She is aware that although scruffy, her clothes are good quality and that is attracting attention. However given the predatory nature of the stew pots in Flea Bottom, they could have been looking at her to abuse or like the puppies, add to the pot. Given the Singer Stew later in the series, the pot shop has a Sweeny Todd vibe.

Also just touching on imagery, The Wind Witch again relates back to the idea of Nymeria. Bran describes Nymeria as an old witch and of course she traversed the narrow sea. Arya's inability to get safe passage home is a recurrent theme and the witch imagery seem tied in with her character more than others.

Edit: Also there is foreshadowing of the High Septon's gruesome demise with the analogies to the fat pigeons and the way they are killed by Arya's bare hands. The HS is later ripped apart by the people.

I am always struck by how much foreshadowing there is and from what has come to pass in later books, that was foreshadowed, if we can conclude certain things are more likely than others.

[Lummel]

I like how Yoren's hand closes on Arya "like a wolf trap". Very neat. And the claustrophobia is great. Arya has escaped from one prison to another. With the final irony that the capture of the wolf cub will lead to its escape from King's Landing.

On my first read I remember thinking that Arya would be killed. The Ned has just been executed so the gloves seemed to be off. I had the feeling that anything could happen :dunno: .

Later we learn that Davos (and Dunk!) came from Flea Bottom so it is interesting that our first exposure to it is so negative as a very hostile place, although clearly Arya is talking to anybody again and people are telling her stories too.

Its interesting to see that The Ned does not explicitly swear by the old gods. Presumably that was deemed to be a step too far.

[Lyanna Stark]

Edit: Also there is foreshadowing of the High Septon's gruesome demise with the analogies to the fat pigeons and the way they are killed by Arya's bare hands. The HS is later ripped apart by the people.

I am always struck by how much foreshadowing there is and from what has come to pass in later books, that was foreshadowed, if we can conclude certain things are more likely than others.

Yes, there is a lot of rather ominous imagery surrounding the Seven and the Faith. "As we sin, so do we suffer", the blood at the feet of Baelor the Blessed, the High Septon being connected to fat pigeons being ripped apart, etc. good catchon the High Septon later being ripped apart from the people. I hope he didn't actually get eaten though, yuck. :ack:

I like how Yoren's hand closes on Arya "like a wolf trap". Very neat.

I know, it made me snigger when I saw it. ;) It is very neat I think, and yes, without knowing what Yoren is about, it's easy to miss the clues that Yoren doesn't mean Arya actual harm.

Regarding symbolism I didn't touch much upon, I thought it was interesting with how the people on the dais were clothed. There is a lot of description of how they look and what colours their clothes are. Joffrey is dressed in Lannister red, Cersei in black and red (mourning + Lannister red, or Targaryen colours), Sansa is in blue and silver (associations with innocence, maidenhood, Tully/Arryn perhaps?), Varys is richly dressed, Littlefinger is there with his mockingbird (I believe on a green field?). Yoren is in black, Sandor in grey armour and a "snowy white" cloak (not just white, but snowy white even). Ned is dressed in Stark colours, grey and white. Weirdly, the people closest aligned colourwise here are Ned and Sandor sporting grey and white, especially since Sandor's white cloak is described as "snowy", a definitely northern attribute.

Another thing to note is that apparently Varys and the High Septon both seemed shocked and outraged at Joffrey beheadning Ned, while no reaction is noted from Littlefinger or the Lannister camp. Did we just see Littlefinger throw a bit of a wrench in Varys' plans?