Why was Dorne not called to help with the war of the five kings

[Ramsay Targaryen]

Firstly, this seems like something that has probably been discussed previously, though after a few searches I can not find anything relevant, we'll just have to do it ourselves, mwahahahah.

The Martell's claim to control (IIRC it was ) 9000 spears, which they offer to Dany.

However they maintained peace with Kings Landing during the war. At times during the war, the crown was outnumbered by enemies (maybe not outnumbered overall, but for example during the battle of the Blackwater, they certainly could have used more troops.

I find it hard to believe that at no point, they were required to call their banners during the war and ride to help the king, or face the kings justice and have their titles etc stripped.

What comes to mind when I try and answer this for myself is that the Lannisters would not wish to piss off the Martells with Myrcella in Dorne, however I think they should have been called into the battles long before Tyrion sent her off.

Hopefully I have not missed anything too obvious which answers my question.

[ab aeterno]

I think from what we're told the reasons that Dorne wasn't ordered to raise its banners and march are thus:

1) The Martells hate the Lannisters and would never willingly worked with them.

2) Most people still believe the myth about Dorne's strength and how hard it would be to capture.

3)The Lannisters are afraid of giving the Martells any reason to side with Robb or Stannis or Renly and move against the them.

4) At one point at least they were hoping that the threat of the Martells in Dorne might keep the Reach out of the war, at least partially.

I think that the Lannisters (Rock and KL branches) both have little to gain from antagonizing the Martells and much to lose. Tywin explicitly references his fear that Stannis might join with the Martells after the Blackwater, and Tyrion mentions it (Edit: joining Renly,) before the Blackwater, IIRC.

[A wilding]

Far from requiring the Martells to support Joffrey, the Lannisters had to buy them by giving them Myrcella and a few other things. And all that bought the Lannisters was passivity. Without that the Martells might well have joined Renly (or so Tyrion feared.)

[Daenerys is my queen]

I think probably because the Lannisters knew that the Martells wouldn't help them anyway. And like a wildling said, they had to buy them by sending them Myrcella and all that did was make sure they didn't join Stannis or Renly. Although since the Martells are Targaryen supporters,they're planning on joining Dany or :ack: Aegon.

[ab aeterno]

I think probably because the Lannisters knew that the Martells wouldn't help them anyway. And like a wildling said, they had to buy them by sending them Myrcella and all that did was make sure they didn't join Stannis or Renly. Although since the Martells are Targaryen supporters,they're planning on joining Dany or :ack: Aegon.

Can't see them joining Dany once they find out what happened to Quentyn...

[the Scorpion Knight]

Can't see them joining Dany once they find out what happened to Quentyn...

I don't think that's the primary reason

[PrinceHenryris]

I don't think that's the primary reason

Assuming that Doran is still alive, I don't think he'll have a problem with Dany if he hears about Quentyn's fate from Barristan.

If Arianne's in charge?

[Septon Meribald]

As people have said, Dorne would have been of very questionable loyalty. They have plenty of reasons to hate the Lannisters and a long standing hatred of the Reach. Serving alongside either of those could lead to a lot of trouble. Additionally they never would have gotten to the fighting in the Riverlands on time nor the Battle of the Blackwater. After that the Lannister's numerical superiority was well established. It was enough to keep them out of it. It's almost as good to just not have 10,000 more enemies and a new theater in the war as it is to have 10,000 more men behind you.

[Knight errant]

I think probably because the Lannisters knew that the Martells wouldn't help them anyway. And like a wildling said, they had to buy them by sending them Myrcella and all that did was make sure they didn't join Stannis or Renly. Although since the Martells are Targaryen supporters,they're planning on joining Dany or :ack: Aegon.

This is known.

I think they will side with Aegon instead of waiting for Dany however. I think it's safe to say they did not help because they were saving their strength for something like this or quentyns plan for example.

Also you have over stated their numbers, Doran puts them at 50k, which is a lie so they have at best 40 k :( Sad times for Dorne.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

This same question could easily be applied to the Veil of Arryn as well. But as mentioned up-thread with the speed of the events that led to the Battle of the Blackwater there wasn't time to threaten houses to marshall strength, and these factions in-action was almost as good as having them on your side, as long as they don't add their numbers to the enemy. That being said I think if Tywin had remained Regent/Hand then Dorne and the Veil would probably have felt his wrath after the war ended.

[Daenerys is my queen]

Can't see them joining Dany once they find out what happened to Quentyn...

It wasn't Dany's fault. She wasn't even there.

Assuming that Doran is still alive, I don't think he'll have a problem with Dany if he hears about Quentyn's fate from Barristan.

If Arianne's in charge?

I agree. Doran won't have a problem with it if he knows it wasn't Dany's fault. I don't think Arriane would either. :)

This is known.

I think they will side with Aegon instead of waiting for Dany however. I think it's safe to say they did not help because they were saving their strength for something like this or quentyns plan for example.

Also you have over stated their numbers, Doran puts them at 50k, which is a lie so they have at best 40 k :( Sad times for Dorne.

They've waited this long. They can wait a little longer for Dany. :)

[ab aeterno]

It wasn't Dany's fault. She wasn't even there.

Will it matter to Doran? It was Dany's dragons. Will he believe her? Will he still hold her responsible?

[Daenerys is my queen]

Will it matter to Doran? It was Dany's dragons. Will he believe her? Will he still hold her responsible?

Doran's a pretty sensible guy. I think/hope that if he hears that she wasn't there, he won't blame her.

[ab aeterno]

Doran's a pretty sensible guy. I think/hope that if he hears that she wasn't there, he won't blame her.

He has spent the last fifteen years haunted by an plotting to avenge the deaths of his sister and her children. He sends is oldest son to Dany to offer her all the strength of Dorne in a bit to reclaim the throne; Dany rejects him and Quentyn gets killed. How does he react to that?

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

Who is going to make the Dornishmen do anything they don't want to?

Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.

[Knight errant]

He has spent the last fifteen years haunted by an plotting to avenge the deaths of his sister and her children. He sends is oldest son to Dany to offer her all the strength of Dorne in a bit to reclaim the throne; Dany rejects him and Quentyn gets killed. How does he react to that?

Who is going to make the Dornishmen do anything they don't want to?

Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.

They will side with Aegon, not Dany. We all know how well Dragons do in the desert :P They can oppose whoever they want.

[Lord Varys]

Renly called upon the help of Dorne. Doran assembled two armies when Robert died, armies that still stand in the Prince's Pass and the Boneway. But since Doran had little interest in backing a Baratheon or Lannister pretender, he did nothing to support them. He jumped on the chance to gain a hostage when Tyrion offered Myrcella as bride for Trystane, but that did not change his overall attitude. Tyrion hoped to prevent Doran from declaring for Renly, since that would have almost ensured a Baratheon victory. With Dorne unallied, or technically on Joffrey's side, the Tyrells and the Stormlords would have to keep a portion of their strength back home to ensure that the Dornishmen don't attack them.

Cersei acted stupidly when she seized the Regency. She had Joffrey declare all the Great Lords not present during the coronation ceremony traitors, not only Renly, Stannis, the Starks, Tullys, and Tyrells, but the Martells and Arryns as well. This was not that smart since they did not yet declare for anyone, so (technically) there would have been a chance to come to an understanding with those guys.

Tyrion reached out to the Martells either way, and Tywin through Littlefinger eventually to the Vale, but if things could have ended much worse for the Lannisters if both the Vale and Dorne had participated in the fighting before those attempts were made.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

He has spent the last fifteen years haunted by an plotting to avenge the deaths of his sister and her children. He sends is oldest son to Dany to offer her all the strength of Dorne in a bit to reclaim the throne; Dany rejects him and Quentyn gets killed. How does he react to that?

I see your point but I gotta say, Doran must've realized this venture was frought with risk and may end in his son's untimely death. I mean a trip across the narrow sea with a small group of advisors/protectors (very small), and during the Autumn storms no less. Granted things may have gone better if the Maester had not died, but pirate attacks are just another thing on a long list of dangers for the envoy. The more I think about it, the less it sounds like something Doran "the cautious" would even do.

[ab aeterno]

I see your point but I gotta say, Doran must've realized this venture was frought with risk and may end in his son's untimely death. I mean a trip across the narrow sea with a small group of advisors/protectors (very small), and during the Autumn storms no less. Granted things may have gone better if the Maester had not died, but pirate attacks are just another thing on a long list of dangers for the envoy. The more I think about it, the less it sounds like something Doran "the cautious" would even do.

I think the difference is between dying on the way and dying after he had reached Dany because Dany had rejected him.

[Lord Varys]

Doran and Dorne will declare for Aegon. The news about Quentyn's demise will eventually reach Sunspear, but that's not the really important news, the important news are the news about Dany's death/disappearance. And they will most likely travel faster. Not only because Dany disappeared before Quentyn's death, but also because the Dragon Queen of Meereen has become a rather prominent figure in worldwide trade, and thus the news about the Drogon-Dany-fighting-pit-stunt will arrive in Dorne pretty soon (especially since Doran seems to have quite an effective system of informers in the Free Cities)

Since the Martells have to deal with Aegon's return in the immediate future, the news about Dany's alleged and Quentyn's definitive death may only retrospectively strengthen their decision to back Aegon over Daenerys. My guess is that Doran and Arianne only back Aegon in the beginning to make way for Dany and Quentyn, but end up becoming the principal supporters of Aegon VI Targaryen when they learn about Quentyn's fate. That's when Arianne and Doran will start to consider marrying Arianne to King Aegon.

And alliance between Dorne and Daenerys has become pretty much impossible (or at least very unlikely) when Quentyn died. The whole point of a Martell-Targaryen-alliance was to recreate the Rhaegar-Elia-marriage-constellation, and this has become impossible now. Especially since Daenerys would have to approach Dorne now when she comes to Westeros, and explain face to face to Doran or Arianne why they should support the woman who spit into Quentyn Martell's face, and failed to prevent his death.

If Dany comes to Westeros after she has made a formal alliance with any Greyjoys (perhaps even including a marriage to Victarion/Euron) things will become even more difficult for her. No one likes the Ironborn in Westeros, and no one would be particularly fond of any of Dany's allies from Essos (Dothraki, Ghiscari, freed slaves etc.). If the Iron Fleet is merely used as a means to get Dany's armies to Westeros, the Lords might look more favorably on her, but that still is not going to win her any allies.

All the secret Targaryen loyalists will declare for Aegon in the near future. He is in Westeros, and he has the chance to win the war. Daenerys is far away, and people will soon learn that she is most likely dead. The dragons are far away as well.