Black Crow Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 On Wiki they have the Targaryan family tree. Maely's the Monstrous is listed as last of the Blackfyre pretenders. This statement alone does not prove or disprove that he had children....or even bastards.Yeah, the Wiki ends it all with Maelys in 256 or 257AL with no mention of children to him - or to his brothers, though its interesting to note that Daemon II uses the alias John the Fiddler. Either way, a child being taken beyond the Wall in the wake of the War of the Ninepenny Kings would be consistent with Mance's perceived age, his cloak of Targaryen/Blackfyre colours, and his mysterious purpose. Perhaps the "woods witch" told him who he really was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 We got less than an inch here and I almost stayed home from work. Got the Mustang goin' sideways though :DJust got home from work (safely, I might add... you gotta love storms that force you to drive under 20 mph) but god this snowstorm is amazing... it has lightning and thunder and everything... supposedly we're supposed to have a few hours of 2-3 inches per hour around 7 tomorrow morning... gonna be sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Feather has admitted to Madison Wis.(Yes, I'm up, if not entirely awake)Naw that's me dawg... pretty sure she's in minnesota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 We have rain, heavy rain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Naw that's me dawg... pretty sure she's in minnesotaMy bad, but yes you're right. You're still all a bunch of Midwesterners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Crazy town indeed...just make sure that Ozzy Osbourne is not conducting.I get the sense that there are several folkes (Heretics) in the upper midwest. I'll cite Wisonsin (my current state Illinois) and I've seen Minneapolis.I've gotten that feeling as well... but it's only because we're the best (well, most of us... not you FIBs though :P ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Yeah, the Wiki ends it all with Maelys in 256 or 257AL with no mention of children to him - or to his brothers, though its interesting to note that Daemon II uses the alias John the Fiddler. Either way, a child being taken beyond the Wall in the wake of the War of the Ninepenny Kings would be consistent with Mance's perceived age, his cloak of Targaryen/Blackfyre colours, and his mysterious purpose. Perhaps the "woods witch" told him who he really was.-He's the leader of the Golden Company. Im betting he has quite a lot of bastards running around.-I'm pretty sure Martin is pointing out that while Dany may think she is the last one, this is utterly and completely false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 -He's the leader of the Golden Company. Im betting he has quite a lot of bastards running around.-I'm pretty sure Martin is pointing out that while Dany may think she is the last one, this is utterly and completely false.Hell, you could make the case that the Baratheon's are actually more "dragon" than the Targ's at this point, the reason being the, because of the Targ's intermarrying themselves, they kept out other Valyrian (read: dragon) blood while the Baratheon's married into both the other Valyrian families and the Targ's themselves throughout history. Yes, the Targs are the more "pure" line, but throughout its history the Baratheon's have far more injections of different brands of dragon blood while the Targ's are just duplicating the same brand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 *sigh* Midwesterners. The descendents of quiters. People who got half way across the country in the great migration and just gave up ;)My family and I made it all the way to the west coast. Rainy Ol' Black Soil Oregon :DYeah, the Wiki ends it all with Maelys in 256 or 257AL with no mention of children to him - or to his brothers, though its interesting to note that Daemon II uses the alias John the Fiddler. Either way, a child being taken beyond the Wall in the wake of the War of the Ninepenny Kings would be consistent with Mance's perceived age, his cloak of Targaryen/Blackfyre colours, and his mysterious purpose. Perhaps the "woods witch" told him who he really was.Anyways, this is part of the reason that I initially considered Bloodraven as a father, although that Raven Winged helm certainly helped. One thing that was mentioned in ADWD is that according to Illyrio the male line of blackfyres ended with Malys. Most take this to mean that Illyrio is avoiding the truth that the line continued on the female side who many propose Illyrio married, and their son is fAegon a blackfyre descendant So definitely not definitive evidence to the contrary of what you're saying, but I think the sleight of hand that GRRM is performing with that quote might be evidence that the male line had in fact ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 My bad, but yes you're right. You're still all a bunch of Midwesterners. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 -it doesnt work that way. The as long as you are part of the "dragon" you are good. No one would be doing incest if otherwise if other bloods of dragon meant better things.-Baratheons married into other andal families.-Implied heavily, the Targaryens essentially stole houses by marrying a daughter or son to them. Plumms, everyone on the bay, Arryns for awhile..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I hope I'm not the only one that thinks Valyrian Blood is phoney nonsense for the most part. Short of being from the line of Jahaerys from which TPTWP will come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I hope I'm not the only one that thinks Valyrian Blood is phoney nonsense for the most part. Short of being from the line of Jahaerys from which TPTWP will come from.Oh don't get me wrong this is my actual belief as well, I was simply throwing a pot out the window and hoping it didn't crack too much on the landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyryan Lannister Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 And with that, I bid everyone adieu for the evening.Here's hoping for over a foot of snow come waking time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTizer Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Quick off topic question that all this talk of the doom reminded me of :What happened to the dragons (I would expect hundreds) of Valayria? The doom couldn't have swallowed all of them, and why were there none in Voltanis? If the reason the dragons failed in Westeros was the Maesters ( prospectively ) then why did they fail in Essos?Is it just that magic failed/declined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTizer Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 And at least y'all have something interesting happening. looks like rain for Christmas and dark grey skies now in Ireland. BC I'm sure and myself are very jealous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 faceless men chose a time when nearly all the dragons were in valyria..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWCED Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 faceless men chose a time when nearly all the dragons were in valyria.....That leads to who wants the dragons dead, and what did they have to give up for the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Crazy town indeed...just make sure that Ozzy Osbourne is not conducting.I get the sense that there are several folkes (Heretics) in the upper midwest. I'll cite Wisonsin (my current state Illinois) and I've seen Minneapolis.Feather has admitted to Madison Wis.(Yes, I'm up, if not entirely awake)Just got home from work (safely, I might add... you gotta love storms that force you to drive under 20 mph) but god this snowstorm is amazing... it has lightning and thunder and everything... supposedly we're supposed to have a few hours of 2-3 inches per hour around 7 tomorrow morning... gonna be sweetMy bad, but yes you're right. You're still all a bunch of Midwesterners.*sigh* Midwesterners. The descendents of quiters. People who got half way across the country in the great migration and just gave up ;)My family and I made it all the way to the west coast. Rainy Ol' Black Soil Oregon :DAnyways, this is part of the reason that I initially considered Bloodraven as a father, although that Raven Winged helm certainly helped. One thing that was mentioned in ADWD is that according to Illyrio the male line of blackfyres ended with Malys. Most take this to mean that Illyrio is avoiding the truth that the line continued on the female side who many propose Illyrio married, and their son is fAegon a blackfyre descendant So definitely not definitive evidence to the contrary of what you're saying, but I think the sleight of hand that GRRM is performing with that quote might be evidence that the male line had in fact ended.I was born in Minnesota, but grew up a Cheesehead and later moved back to Minnesota. We've got a lot of Midwesterners on here and I'm surprised Black Crow knows that we're called that! I wouldn't know any nicknames for Scotland or other British Isle areas.Aren't there a lot of Brits as well on Heresy?Thunder-snows? Awesome! I like snow myself, but its the bane of shipping, which is the industry I'm in. I've got a truck stuck near Des Moines since last night and customers in Chicago complaining. I told them they're next and will get this storm later today, probably compounded with a lake effect from Lake Michigan.T'was the German immigrants that made Wisconsin and Minnesota, till the Norwegians started horning in.OK....nuff personal stuff!While it would be interesting to explore Mance as a Blackfrye, he doesn't have the genetic traits of violet eyes and platinum blond hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTizer Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 While I maintain there is definitely something more to Mance than meets the eye, I'm not so sure he's a Blackfyre.I would think a northern lordling or BR son or craster son that wasn't picked up by the Others?Also, I'm in Ireland. While we are by no means British (As BC may not be soon enough depending on an independance vote and preference) we are akin, albeit more closely to the Scots Gael, Cornish and Welsh (Well, that's what us Irish tirelessly try to maintain! :P ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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