How long will Jon be 'dead' ?

[JaegrM]

Theon was gone and 'dead' for a whole book, do you think Jon will be alive in WoW?

Will we have a Jon or Mel POV right off the bat?

Halfway through the book?

The epilogue ?

[Free Northman]

I don't think very long. There is too much that has to happen with his involvement too soon. Robb's will is about to arrive, remember, and if Jon is dead it destroys the impact of the entire revelation of the contents, which has been building up for 3 books now.

Jon will be back halfway through Winds, I reckon.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I tend to think that, given Jon's importance in the story (which I hope even his detractors have the good sense to admit), he won't stay out of it for long. I think that whatever is going to happen to him will happen sooner rather than later.

If you compare his situation to Bran's — in which he's severely wounded, goes into a coma, opens his third eye and then comes out of it, without ever actually dying — there's no reason it couldn't be resolved in a few chapters.

On the other hand, the timeline of a resurrection is harder to nail down. But even that, I think, is somewhat time-constrained. What do they do with corpses on the Wall? They burn them. So whatever is going to happen with Jon needs to happen before he's burned or (my crackpot theory) will happen when he's burned.

[JaegrM]

I tend to think that, given Jon's importance in the story (which I hope even his detractors have the good sense to admit), he won't stay out of it for long. I think that whatever is going to happen to him will happen sooner rather than later.

If you compare his situation to Bran's — in which he's severely wounded, goes into a coma, opens his third eye and then comes out of it, without ever actually dying — there's no reason it couldn't be resolved in a few chapters.

On the other hand, the timeline of a resurrection is harder to nail down. But even that, I think, is somewhat time-constrained. What do they do with corpses on the Wall? They burn them. So whatever is going to happen with Jon needs to happen before he's burned or (my crackpot theory) will happen when he's burned.

God, I hope not.

[Budj]

I can't imagine them keeping Jon out of it for more than half of the book. I don't think we have any hard evidence to indicate how long it will be, but I'm really crossing my fingers his emergence from almost death and / or resurrection will not be the final build up moment in twow.

I'm guessing we get a couple nods from him in Ghost in other POV's in the earlier parts of the book.

I also tend to agree the burning of corpses will be a big moment for him and also agree they won't drag that out very long. So I'm hoping AT LEAST 1/4 through the book...at almost worst 1/2...worst case scenario he returns in human form at the end. I just don't see how they can drag it out over the whole book. As Free Northman said above the culminating factors involved in Jon's storyline will lose some momentum if it is dragged out too long.

[JaegrM]

The reasoning I have that it'll take a long time hinges on him being "dead" and not in a coma.

If he's 'dead' they have to have a Mel POV or something stressing that fact and building up to a dramatic resurrection.

I just have a hard time thinking Martin will just have Jon be Okay after his stabbings.

[Ice Turtle]

So whatever is going to happen with Jon needs to happen before he's burned or (my crackpot theory) will happen when he's burned.

Is this theory posted somewhere?

Anyway he can wake up in one of first five chapters and it can be half of a year later.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The reasoning I have that it'll take a long time hinges on him being "dead" and not in a coma.

If he's 'dead' they have to have a Mel POV or something stressing that fact and building up to a dramatic resurrection.

I just have a hard time thinking Martin will just have Jon be Okay after his stabbings.

I think you have to weigh that against Jon's almost critical importance in the story. For me, his narrative importance far outweighs any arbitrary "dramatic resurrection" timeline. So I think, alive or dead, it will be resolved fairly fast.

One option is for Melisandre to spend a chapter ruminating on whatever and then for the "big reveal," whatever that may be, to end her chapter on a cliffhanger, and for the nuts and bolts of it to be explained after the fact in the next chapter.

[therealbando]

His way to important to be dead, and if I recall right GRRM said that there going to be a lot of the Others in WoW, and whoelse will defeat them (or not who knows) if not Jon?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Is this theory posted somewhere?

Anyway he can wake up in one of first five chapters and it can be half of a year later.

This is the bulk of it.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/79193-an-ice-dragon-named-jon-a-crackpot-thread/#entry3978198

[JaegrM]

Another thing that could be a big factor is what the hell happened at The Wall after the stabbing occured?

Did Marsh just assume control?

Did the Wildlings riot?

Did the men of the Watch rush to the Lord Commanders aid?

[Budj]

The reasoning I have that it'll take a long time hinges on him being "dead" and not in a coma.

If he's 'dead' they have to have a Mel POV or something stressing that fact and building up to a dramatic resurrection.

I just have a hard time thinking Martin will just have Jon be Okay after his stabbings.

I totally am on board with the resurrection, but it need not be a whole book of build up. The build up to Jon being important has been going on a long time and with the Theon sample chapter picking up fairly quickly off of the earlier events in ADWD and leading me to believe it is tied into Jon's resurrection I don't think it will take long to line that up either.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I'm guessing two or at most three Melisandre chapters.

- The immediate aftermath, maybe overlapping with Jon's last chapter

(- the Others breaching the Wall if that's not included in one of the other two)

- Jon starting to stir.

Of course Jon is just unconscious, not dead. Maybe a Bran-like chapter Jon chapter in between.

[JaegrM]

I'm guessing two or at most three Melisandre chapters.

- The immediate aftermath, maybe overlapping with Jon's last chapter

(- the Others breaching the Wall if that's not included in one of the other two)

- Jon starting to stir.

Of course Jon is just unconscious, not dead. Maybe a Bran-like chapter Jon chapter in between.

But why would his assassins stop stabbing before he 'dies'.

A lot hinges on what the fuck happened immediately after the stabbings occur

[Bright Blue Eyes]

But why would his assassins stop stabbing before he 'dies'.

A lot hinges on what the fuck happened immediately after the stabbings occur

Because there is a raging giant, who's friendly with Jon, within arm's reach and a hundred Black Brothers following Jon's lead and a thousand Wildlings scarce farer away.

The assassins are a tiny minority in the castle.

[NitzanLeo]

I can totally see Mel trying a Kiss of Life on Jon, but since his soul is probably off in Ghost then perhaps it won't work. I can also see Jon's body being burned, and his continuation of the story will occur completely through Ghost, or through Ghost and then through some magical, special ressurection thingy--maybe through some Winterfell-Crypts-Revelation thing, like what lots of people want to see happen.

[JaegrM]

Because there is a raging giant, who's friendly with Jon, within arm's reach and a hundred Black Brothers following Jon's lead and a thousand Wildlings scarce farer away.

The assassins are a tiny minority in the castle.

We don't know how many were in on it.

And they're literally standing over Jon and stabbing him.

[Runaway Penguin]

they would stop, because they may think they are done. Or because someone notices what's happening. However they may quarrel about Jon's decisions, Rangers KNOW there are ugly things out there. Wildlings KNOW as well. They would not take lightly to their commander/protector being murdered. After all, some are now both, like Castle Black's Master-at-Arms.

EDIT: They are NOT standing over him and stabbing him. One is backing away. One lost his blade (it is mentioned Bowen's knife got stuck in Jon's body), one knife unknown in the back, fourth knife not felt - but not felt because of coma, or because there wasn't any?

To the topic at hand... Basically "quick" option, if Jon is taken for dead, or "longer option" if someone recognizes Jon is alive, but in coma. I suspect latter, I guess Val and Mel will clash over "what to do with him", with Val preventing Mel of giving Jon kiss of life. Val would probably recognize that Jon is alive but his soul is elsewhere (in Ghost) and that body needs to heal and soul needs to be called back - I guess the Wildling skinchanger with boar would help there.

[Arya Targaryen]

I don't think it will take more than 2-3 chapters, to be honest. Whether it will be in the first quarter of the book, or just halfway throug, I can't tell.

When I first read the theories about why he needed to die (plotwise), I agreed that it was to get out of his vows. I'm not so sure about that anymore. I think he will be unconscious / dead long enough for:

- Aly Mormont and Jeyne to arive and leave the Wall (to Braavos - but they don't have any ships left, do they? Maybe they'll meet Davos (and Rickon) at Eastwatch

- having a master degree at warging / contacting Bran

- and the Others breaking through the Wall. And I think this is the main point. Jon did everything to get ready, but Bowen and co screwed it up. Jon must be out of picture so nobody can blame him, when the Others invade. If he cannot keep the Wall - his fault. If he goes to Winterfell and the Others attack while he is there - his fault. Being dead - not his fault. I think they won't burn him, but put him in an ice cell, because they won't have the time. The Others can't do anything to him while he is within the Wall. NW/Queen's men/wildlings will flee, and Jon will be left alone at (in) the Wall. Maybe someone stays there, too (they know those bodies weren't reanimated, so probably the Others can't reach for them there, someone (Satin? Leathers? Val?) may choose an ice cell to hide there.)

So when Jon regains consciousness, he will be practically alone. I think he will gather an army step by step. And he will have a "legal" reason to go south.

For all these things to happen I think Jon will be back by halway through the WoW, the latest.

[Budj]

I can totally see Mel trying a Kiss of Life on Jon, but since his soul is probably off in Ghost then perhaps it won't work. I can also see Jon's body being burned, and his continuation of the story will occur completely through Ghost, or through Ghost and then through some magical, special ressurection thingy--maybe through some Winterfell-Crypts-Revelation thing, like what lots of people want to see happen.

Absolutely. She will try and it will fail. The kiss of life is different than the Other's wights. The kiss of life is more controlled by the dead person's life essence (albeit rather 'fractured') and since Jon's essence is currently living in a gigantic and silent wolf she will be frustrated at the outcome. She will then probably try and burn his body in some Red God showing / attempt to use it for her own magic because the Stark's have the blood of kings in their veins...

I feel bad for Stannis when Mel watches Jon rise because she will be changing her AA re-born tune. Not that I think Jon will buy into that mess for he is of the old gods :)