Who Has Been the Series' Most Berserkly Stupid Character?

[The Killer Snark]

Moon Boy, Patchface, Hodor and Jinglebell are all excepted for obvious reasons. Theon is excepted, in my opinion, because despite being clearly easily led and naive to the point of making some egregious decisions, he also displays real cunning and is otherwise witty and quite smart.

I am talking first degree idiocy here. I am talking 'ought to know better' but is a total moron. Gregor Clegane is very stupid but is pretty much a force of nature psychopath. My own candidates in no order are below.

Cersei Halfmad Lannister

Victarion ('Me smash!') Greyjoy

Viserys Cart-King Targaryen

Quentyn Dragonfodder Martell

Catelyn Stark

Now this last choice was a hard one, because although I didn't like Catelyn at first, I actually grew to like her and was gutted when she died. But no other character in the series apart from Cersei has caused so much catastrophic damage on account of their rashness and delusions of competent judgement. And as Lady Stoneheart she's even worse.

[poor_fellow]

Cersei is the queen... of ought to know better. Still, she's Cersei. She's so stupid it feels unfair to the other competitors to choose her.. My pick is Victarion. The guy falls in love with a woman given to him by his sworn enemy, the man who cuckolded him and "forced" him to kill the woman he loved. Ought to know better... he does! The Crow's Eye's gifts are always poisoned. He says it all the time! Ugh. Not to mention his complete lack of suspicion when it comes to Black Flame. The information Moqorro is providing him is too reliable and too easily gotten. He's getting power that he's not sacrificed for, and the shit is going to hit the fan. He should also know that he can't keep both the gods, not jealous ones like those. They're both bound to desert him.

[The Killer Snark]

That bit where he kills the guy for telling him he's an idiot for not knowing what the Dothraki Sea was really takes the cake.

[NitzanLeo]

I've never seen Victarion as overall dumb, nor Cersei. Victarion is dull, a little unintelligent, but not stupid. We really haven't seen true intelligence coming from the Greyjoys anywhere in the books. Euron might be the smartest one, and he hasn't shown much intelligence, just some good planning. I could never see Cersei as stupid either, since she had some pretty good ideas, and though most of her plans failed, they were half-baked, not idiotic. And really, how can you think she's stupid when you look at her family? Tywin? Tyrion? Even though we see Jaime as a bit dull in the first few books, we can see now after reading AFFC and ADWD that he's very far from moronic either. He's a bit like Sansa; we think of her a stupid too, in the beginning, but then we see that she's only naive and misguided, not stupid.

Also, Quentyn wasn't stupid to try what he did, only desperate. I don't even know what to say about Catelyn. Why would anyone think she's stupid?

I think I'll have to go with Viserys, even though most of his stupidity can be discarded because he was always a little mad. Even though people kept telling him the Dothraki don't trade, he still tries to sell Dany off so he can have an army. An army of people who are afraid of the sea. To attack a different continent. Across the sea. Yeah, stupid. I'll also put in a small spot for Marilion. Why the fuck would he try raping the daughter of the now-Lord-Protector-of-the-Vale? Sheer stupidity, but he's only a minor character so who cares? Oh, and Edmure. Idiot.

[witches]

uhh robb stark.

i really can't believe that anyone finds catelyn stupid, since she pretty much ran the show (successfully) on robb's side during acok. robb's rash decision and total selfishness caused the death of himself, his mother, and over three thousand of his bannermen. i don't know if anyone else in the series had a fuck up that was nearly as severe.

[littleRickon]

Cersei Halfmad Lannister

Victarion ('Me smash!') Greyjoy

Viserys Cart-King Targaryen

Quentyn Dragonfodder Martell

Catelyn Stark

Out of that list, it's Viserys, and it's not even close.

I think it's funny that you give Theon credit for some intelligent actions, and deny the same to the female characters, even though they demonstrated way more aptitude and cunning in their best times. Now, Cersei did certainly fall far from her top form, but she did in fact outsmart King Bob and The Ned by a million miles in AGOT. Both were somewhat naive, but she played Bob like a musical instrument (forbidding him to melee because she knows that's going to make him want to do it...) and kept Ned totally in the dark of her actual plan. When he takes her metaphorical tower piece, she is like "nice job, btw. you are checkmate"

Catelyn, I agree with the previous poster is one of the most intelligent characters in the series. But even if you don't share this view (many don't), one cannot deny that her advice during Robb's campain was always sound and intelligent, and that is with her being a woman who never had any training in that. More importantly, she knows how to give Robb that advice without crushing his self-respect, which is a true masterpiece on the emotional intelligence side as well.

By your Theon logic, both should be out.

Victarion is a brute, but I don't see any evidence of him being an idiot. He is successfully commanding the most dangerous fleet in the arena, and he seems to know very well how to engage every situation and how to plan ahead (dividing his fleet into three parts because one huge group would attract too much attention). He is probably being totally blind-folded by Moqorro now, but that doesn't put him all the way to the bottom of the intelligence food chain.

Quentyn, much the same. Timid, naive, OK, but I don't see him doing a lot of outright stupid stuff. He risks everything by trying to tame the dragons, but he seems very much aware of the risk at the time. He gambles everything on one card and goes bust. But he gambles consciously. Had stuff worked out with the dragons, he would be no1 hero and most loved character...

Only with Viserys I see no evidence of rational thinking ever. He is extremely malevolent, and none of his actions speak of a lot of pl-anning ahead or understanding situations. In the end he becomes a meme by threatening a horde of warrior rapists and gets his due. Easy pick for me.

[Dimadick]

Moon Boy, Patchface, Hodor and Jinglebell are all excepted for obvious reasons.

I have my doubts that Moon Boy and Patchface are stupid. Both Sansa and Dontos Hollard suspect that Moon Boy is merely pretending to be a simpleton. And noted that "fools" have access to more information than knights. Patchface (in Dance) cracked a joke about Jon Snow's expedition being a fool's errand. Which at least suggests awareness of his surroundings.

I am talking first degree idiocy here. I am talking 'ought to know better' but is a total moron.

For actual lack of intellect, my choice would be Janos Slynt. Easily manipulated by others, consistently outsmarted, and he underestimated his opponents to a fatal degree.

For "ought to know better", the top spot should be shared by Jon Snow and Ramsay Bolton, They are cunning, at times creative, and they adapt well to adverse situations. Yet both have an otherwise unique talent to alienate their own allies and failing to listen to advice. I think they are the characters more likely to self-destruct.

[ebevan91]

Robb.

Quentyn is up there too. What a moron.

[The Killer Snark]

Dimadack,

I thought it odd that Moonboy is supposed to be a simpleton, but at one point in the first book makes some sophisticated jokes, based on innuendo, which you would think beyond his range. As for Patchface, I believe his near-death experience has lent him a certain psychic connection to events that I'm waiting to see being integrated into the plot.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Aeron Damphair - He's a religious fanatic that has delusions of grandeur. A megalomanic fool who is in over his head and will probably be destroyed by the crow's eye. Almost all of his actions are illogical, but in his eyes everything he does is justified because it's what the drowned god wants. Therefore, even when things don't go the way he plans them he still finds a way to twist it into some act of god. I can't stand him.

Quentyn - Just a naive idiot who was doomed from the beginning.

Robb - For jeopardizing his entire army and everything they had fought for to save the honor of some girl.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Sansa has been just as bad as anyone. She informed Cersei of Ned's plans to remove her and Arya from KL. She lied for Joff and got her wolf killed. She is also allowing the man who betrayed her father (Lifflefinger) to twist her mind and maybe even rape her down the road. Hopefully she will wise up.

[Knight of the Teabags]

In the Westerosi Darwin awards there's one individual who particularly comes to my mind for the first place and unlike Viserys you can't excuse the actions that get him killed due to insanity or ignorance.

My nomination is Lord Alester Florent.

Lord Alester Florent was Stannis Baratheon's first King's Hand from ACoK into ASoS. He was also an in-law to Stannis through being his Queen, Selyse's uncle and has been so for at least a decade. Therefore it is not unreasonable to assume Lord Alester should have some idea of what sort of man Stannis happens to be, both through his familial connection and Stannis' rather well known reputation. He should know of Stannis' personal history of holding out for two years in a besieged Storm's End, preferring to eat vermin and old leather than surrender to his enemies and that during that he sent any of his garrison who thought otherwise from the walls by trebuchet. He should know Stannis in doing justice never (or the real truth very rarely) shows any mercy to those he knows to be guilty.

In short Lord Alester Florent knew enough that he should have known that going behind Stannis' back (unless he put a knife in that back first) to unilaterally conduct a peace treaty with his King's enemies was highly likely to lead to his imprisonment and execution on a charge of high treason.

[The Killer Snark]

Actually, I would have added Sansa without any hesitation if she'd stayed the same as the does in the first novel, but I think she's grown up a lot and is slightly excused in any case for starting off as a sheltered and naive young girl. She is incredibly silly, though, in her early POVs.

I'm made one glaring omission here, a character I really started hating from The Red Wedding onwards and who I wish had died a far worse death. I speak of Joffrey Hill...no, Lannister...oh, right, 'Baratheon', who for a while I actually enjoyed having around as a character on account of how cretinous he was, which was amusing. Sure, he could sometimes be witty, but he was crassly stupid to the point of insanity as well as being actually half-insane.

[mankytoes]

Joffrey and Sansa are both stupid, but only by adult standards, they are average for their ages.

I'm surprised Ned hasn't had a shout. He had been through enough to realise that you need a bit of pragmatism to get by in his world.

There aren't any really dumb characters there, are there? People say Viserys' plan was idiotic, they seem to forget it was working before Drogo's death, albeit after his death.

[davidjones2492]

Neither Cersei or Catelyn are stupid, but both think they are more knowledgeable and intelligent than they actually are.

You can't really consider any of the Starks to be stupid, they simply put their honour first when making decisions. Both Ned and Jon are aware of how their decisions might be viewed, but do what is right anyway. (Robb to a lesser extent; he was thinking with his cock).

Quentyn was an idiot, but he was desperate.

Viserys was stupid as hell, but also bat shit crazy; so it's tough to rate him.

To me the stupidest character in the series is that drunk Squire with the Tickler in SoS that deliberately taunts the Hound before Arya stabs him.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Theon Tries-to-Defend-Winterfell-With-30-Men Greyjoy

Viserys Threatens-Drogo's-Unborn-Child Targaryen

Robb Never-Heard-of-a-Paramour Stark

Cersei Batshit-Insane Lannister

Eddard Tells-Enemies-His-Plans Stark

[Pinkie Baelish]

I would also like to nominate Jon Snow. He had the option of becoming a legitimised lord of Winterfell and having a smoking hot wife. Instead, he chose the freaking Wall....

[Clan O'Raghallaigh]

Clearly Sansa, her stupid actions led to Neds death, couldn't get much worse then that.

[poor_fellow]

I could never see Cersei as stupid either, since she had some pretty good ideas, and though most of her plans failed, they were half-baked, not idiotic. And really, how can you think she's stupid when you look at her family? Tywin? Tyrion?

I think I'll have to go with Viserys, even though most of his stupidity can be discarded because he was always a little mad. Even though people kept telling him the Dothraki don't trade, he still tries to sell Dany off so he can have an army. An army of people who are afraid of the sea. To attack a different continent. Across the sea.

- placing lackwits in places of responsibility

- refusing to honor debts owed to the faith AND the iron bank of braavos

- the completely unnecessary construction of warships

- reviving the faith militant

- trusting falyse stokeworth and her husband to dispose of bronn

- the clumsy attempt to frame margaery

Out of that list, it's Viserys, and it's not even close.

I think it's funny that you give Theon credit for some intelligent actions, and deny the same to the female characters, even though they demonstrated way more aptitude and cunning in their best times. Now, Cersei did certainly fall far from her top form, but she did in fact outsmart King Bob and The Ned by a million miles in AGOT. Both were somewhat naive, but she played Bob like a musical instrument (forbidding him to melee because she knows that's going to make him want to do it...) and kept Ned totally in the dark of her actual plan. When he takes her metaphorical tower piece, she is like "nice job, btw. you are checkmate"

Only with Viserys I see no evidence of rational thinking ever. He is extremely malevolent, and none of his actions speak of a lot of pl-anning ahead or understanding situations. In the end he becomes a meme by threatening a horde of warrior rapists and gets his due. Easy pick for me.

Oh dear! Using... reverse psychology?? I certainly hope after 15 years she figured out that forbidding Robert to do something would make him want to do it. And outsmarting Ned? It's pretty easy when your honorable enemy gives you the knowledge that he's going to destroy you days in advance. And what did she really have to do? Wait until Littlefinger came to her and told her he secured the watch for her?

[Arya Stalka]

Lysa Tully was so stupid. I was glad when LF made her fly. Quentyn Martell... the frog who wouldn't take a hint. It was painful to hear him think. His reaction time is in slow-mo.

Everyone else seems to have moments of stupidity but otherwise had heads on their shoulders. Its also true that several characters are "maturing ".

I did hate Catelyn when she blamed Tyrion... Also thought Robb should've married the Frey and had his cake on the side but then there would be no RW.