Wheel of Time: total 1402's threads all merged...

[PetrusOctavianus]

I believe the point is that WoT was a major success from the start, and RJ churned out 6 books in five years, all of which were great successes.

And then someone realized that by prolonging the series indefintely they could rake in lots of cast from the fan base established by the great success of the first books. Or is there another explanation why the series grinded to a halt (maybe I'm too cynical)?

[fionwe1987]

And then someone realized that by prolonging the series indefintely they could rake in lots of cast from the fan base established by the great success of the first books. Or is there another explanation why the series grinded to a halt (maybe I'm too cynical)?

The series slowed down due to obvious structural issues Jordan faced.

Each book left the characters more separated from each other, resulting in major issues getting them to the same points at the same time. Their story arcs just couldn't mesh well, and RJ faced severe fan backlash when he tried to deal with this by leaving out characters from a book. So he resorted to having them all in the books, with somewhat extended story-arcs, which resulted in Perrin rescuing Faile, and Elayne winning the throne of Andor, both of which ended up going on for much more than planned, and are the chief reasons for the stalling of the series. Coincidentally, both were resolved in KoD, the books where the pace of the series started perking up significantly again.

Added to this was Crossroads of Twilight, which RJ admitted was a failed experiment to try and capture the momentousness of the Cleansing of saidin. Plus, right around book 7 is when he likely started showing symptoms. We have it on record that once he finished LoC, he was severely exhausted, and needed a longer break between books. That's why aCoS took two years to write, and from then on, the books became shorter in length.

Frankly, things would probably have been different if RJ had gone the Martin route and taken a longer break to work out the issues and also take some deserved rest. But as we've seen, fan response to that tactic is just as negative. RJ chose to write his way out of the character arc mess, so we got about 4 shorter books where 2-3 longer ones would have sufficed, and kept the pace of the series intact.

[The Warlock of Qarth]

The series slowed down due to obvious structural issues Jordan faced.

Each book left the characters more separated from each other, resulting in major issues getting them to the same points at the same time. Their story arcs just couldn't mesh well, and RJ faced severe fan backlash when he tried to deal with this by leaving out characters from a book. So he resorted to having them all in the books, with somewhat extended story-arcs, which resulted in Perrin rescuing Faile, and Elayne winning the throne of Andor, both of which ended up going on for much more than planned, and are the chief reasons for the stalling of the series. Coincidentally, both were resolved in KoD, the books where the pace of the series started perking up significantly again.

Added to this was Crossroads of Twilight, which RJ admitted was a failed experiment to try and capture the momentousness of the Cleansing of saidin. Plus, right around book 7 is when he likely started showing symptoms. We have it on record that once he finished LoC, he was severely exhausted, and needed a longer break between books. That's why aCoS took two years to write, and from then on, the books became shorter in length.

Frankly, things would probably have been different if RJ had gone the Martin route and taken a longer break to work out the issues and also take some deserved rest. But as we've seen, fan response to that tactic is just as negative. RJ chose to write his way out of the character arc mess, so we got about 4 shorter books where 2-3 longer ones would have sufficed, and kept the pace of the series intact.

Truth be told, the

Faile kidnap storyline

in particular was bloody awful. Much of the later books would've been much improved if that particular storyline had been fully removed.

[Where Boars Glow]

Only Volantis is cool, which you can't say for Far Madding.

With Martin he can explain the same scene.....with Jon and Sam for example...from different POV and it still has more interesting detail then a similar description of a similar place with the same people reacting in similar ways.....with Jordan it felt more like page filler to me.

[glabrain]

But, I am 2/3 through Eye of the World and it seems like Perrin is taking a liking to Egwene

Perrin spent what? 100 pages of book with the Tinkers. It seems like you're jumping to conclusions.

[total1402]

He seemed jealous when she was dancing with that Aram guy and he seemed anxious about not being able to talk to girls like Rand can. Namely Egwene. Then she later quips him about not being a very good man because he doesn't learn. I took that to mean that they might form a relationship later.

I ve almost finished the book and I quite liked the description of the blight as this hot and perversly colourful place because of all the rot and corruption. It reminded me of the red weed from War of the Worlds only much more sickly and horrible. They're just on there way to meet the Greenman atm.

[wolverine]

Truth be told, the

Faile kidnap storyline

in particular was bloody awful. Much of the later books would've been much improved if that particular storyline had been fully removed.

Completely horrible. I remember constantly looking ahead to see when we would be done with their crappy POV's. The biggest problem with that particular person in danger/captivity is that I was actively hoping someone would just off her, which I don't think was the point.

[Which Tyler]

Absolutely - absolutely horrendous story arc, that added absolutely nothing that couldn't have been acheived in about 2-3 chapters

[Jon Wolfwalker]

The idea of Faile was cool. Fiesty, strong-willed, quick tempered pretty woman....oh wait that was covered with Avi, Nyn, and just about any Windfinder. My bad.

[total1402]

Just got through the first 100 pages of the second book and its really good. Not entirely sure how the trollocs and Myrrdal were able to pull off what they did with all those Aes Sedai mind but its a dramatic twist. Plus, I mentioned earlier on that I didn't get why Aes Sedai had such a bad name. xxxxxxx hell! Flooding villages and destroying crops to get somewhere conveniently.Crippling troublesome Aes Sedai and humiliating them by keeping them to scrub the floors. Then theres the Red Ajah and that blond bitch who mind tortures people. Wow.

[total1402]

Finished The Great Hunt the other day and I really enjoyed but there were a few things I didn't get or which bugged me.

How do the Seanchan have so many Damane with them? Surely if they've been killing male Aes Sedai then the blood would have been culled and they would have been having the same problems as the Tar Valon Aes Sedai. But they can essentially get two Aes Sedai to be handler and damane. Even a small army seemed to have dozens of them available with many accompanying patrols.

How are those damane so powerful? Egwene and Nyaeves training all seemed to suggest that it took specific in-depth training for an Aes Sedai to reach her full potential. In fact I am sure in the first book Moraine tells both incredibly talented women that they would probably never have discovered their powers and that most without schooling end up killing themselves by drawing on too much. Given that fact, shouldn't using compulsion generate far weaker results and run the risk of handlers "overcooking" their damane hosts. I am not even sure how they could get any results that way. Its like an ignorant person trying to force somebody to learn carpentry and hitting them if they fail. But apparently this technique works, Egwene's learning I can live with because shes naturally gifted but that doesn't explain all the other damane who are the Seanchans artillery. Although it was mentioned that men could develop powers that could cause harm to those around them, I don't think it was ever mentioned that female Aes Sedai abilities manifested in this way. It did feel slightly contrived that the Seanchan had that massive advantage over everyone else.

How could you actually capture somebody who can hurl fireballs and lightening at you? It needs to be physically applied and I don't see how soldiers could possibly pin down an Aes Sedai. The whitecloaks seemed convinced that the only way to kill an Aes Sedai was by stealth or by massed arrow fire. Not wrestling one to the ground. I suppose they could cut them off from the source using other damane but this brings me back to the issue of how they know how to do that without any training or school of knowledge or have developed that power under compulsion.

So, can an adam hold any Aes Sedai no matter how powerful? Because, I thought Egwene was told that the stronger she got the more Aes Sedai it would take to block her off from the source and the idea of a tool which does what an adam does seems to run against that. For instance what if the seanchan had a male version that could do that to Rand? To me, that wouldn't make a lot of sense, using a mass produced item in that manner.

How did the Seanchan manage to defeat all the darkspawn on their continent? Even Arthur Hawkwing couldn't take the blight. How on earth could any creatures be equal to what the dark one can make? I remember going there in the first book and even the sticks can kill. Was it simply that he was a lot weaker further away from Shayol Ghul? Was it all part of his plans that they be allowed to succeed?

Why was Arthur Hawkwing one of the hundred heroes and said he had faced or fought for Lews Therin hundreds of times? I thought Hawkwing died during the current age around the trolloc wars after the last dragon died and before Rand appeared. So how can he be one of the heroes? Is there some time warping going on where he was ta verrin so he was a hero before he lived a mortal life. If so, why did he suggest that Hurrin (the sniffer) might become one of the heroes? If Hawkwing is an example then surely Hurrin would already be one of the heroes because him being one was part of the wheel even before he was born. Although it is cool that the Seanchan got owned by their own ancestral hero. :)

[Which Tyler]

RAFO

[total1402]

RAFO

What does that mean?

[Dr. Tachyon]

What does that mean?

Read and find out.

It has been a while since I last read that book.

The damane are specialists. They know how to use the Power as a weapon. And nothing else. The Aes Sedai use the Power for all sorts of things, and are prevented from using as a weapon most of the time by the three oaths. Capturing a channeler usually involves shielding them. There are also drugs that prevent channeling. And there is a certain secret to how the sul'dam operate. Not sure when that's revealed but as far as I remember not yet in book 2.

[total1402]

Its mentioned in the second book that Suldam are untrained channelers themselves. Egwene and Nyaeve realise this when they use the collars on two Suldam and it works when it should only affect channelers.

I assumed that channeling the one power as a viable weapon (fireballs, wripping the ground open; which is elements women are weaker at anyway) was more difficult than using it for things like illumination or telekinisis.

BTW I would have thought Egwene would have killed that suldam when Egwene put a collar on her and put that much pain into her mind. I suppose Nyaeve did stop her doing that, but still.... I suppose that would have been a bit too dark for this series if Egwene murdered somebody with an adam; but I really wanted to see them get revenge.

[fionwe1987]

Its mentioned in the second book that Suldam are untrained channelers themselves. Egwene and Nyaeve realise this when they use the collars on two Suldam and it works when it should only affect channelers.

Yup. There are two types of channelers. Those born with the ability like Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne and Moiraine. These will channel eventually whether someone teaches them or not, though 3 out of four such die. They have the "Spark". The other kind of channelers are learners. They have the latent ability, and unless someone finds them and trains them to touch the One Power, they never will do so, and live their lives like normal women.

In Seanchan, the Sparkers are the ones captured as Damane. The learners become sul'dam. Sparkers are incredibly rare, so there are more sul'dam to each damane.

I assumed that channeling the one power as a viable weapon (fireballs, wripping the ground open; which is elements women are weaker at anyway) was more difficult than using it for things like illumination or telekinisis.

Its easy enough to destroy with the Power. Which is why, even though the damane are extraordinarily good at it, they are terrible channelers on the whole.

BTW I would have thought Egwene would have killed that suldam when Egwene put a collar on her and put that much pain into her mind. I suppose Nyaeve did stop her doing that, but still.... I suppose that would have been a bit too dark for this series if Egwene murdered somebody with an adam; but I really wanted to see them get revenge.

That is not possible, based on what we know of the a'dam.

[total1402]

I assumed it was like the matrix films where the pain they feel is real and if Egwene imagined enough pain to equate to kill the suldam it would have killed her without any physical wounds. I imagined even the most sadistic Suldam wouldn't be angry enough to create so much pain it would cause permanent damage and that some level of restraint would be part of their training. Egwene wasn't showing any restraint and was enraged.

They just seemed to have quite a lot of them with that small army. Enough to kill a thousand armoured whitecloaks before they even got close to fight. Plus in Rands visions there are enough of them to overwhelm him when he is defending the Andor capital and uses the One Power. I don't know if the Seanchan will be coming back, but if they did I'd find it hard to believe they could take on Rand if he was able to use the one power or other Aes Sedai.

BTW, did the Seanchan has dragons or wyvrn with them. It described huge winged beasts fighting with them.

Also, the Seanchan really reminded me of the Tsuarani from Magician by Raymond Feist. Although the Tsuarnai turned out to be not so bad. Whilst the Seanchan I've seen so far are all utter xxxxx. Which came first?

[Poobah]

The Seanchan don't need to capture any of their damane. They test regularly and often using the collar and their own deeply embedded social prejudices against channelers ensure that anyone who can channel wants to be caught / turns themselves in even if they slip through the testing; the Seanchan find every single woman who can channel (spark, that is they'll channel without being taught, whatever happens, like Nynaeve or Egwene) on their continent.

Not only has the white tower not been actively recruiting, but they've actively been turning away anyone who doesn't live up to their dumb standards or whatever.

Sul'dam are latent channellers who could learn if they were taught. I'm sure they have kids like any normal seanchan citizen which keeps the gene floating around in Seanchan.

Also and this is a minor spoiler, I guess:

The Three Oaths the Aes Sedai on the main continent swear drastically shorten their lifespan vs the natural lifespan of channelers. Someone as strong as can be could live nearly 1000 years without any oaths binding them. Even the much weakened Aes Sedai should be living into their fourth, fifth or sixth century, rather than dying off after two to three hundred years. So this is another reason the Seanchan have more damane - theirs live almost twice as long as channellers with similar levels of strength on the main continent.

[total1402]

Ah, that makes a lot of sense I guess.

[total1402]

BTW, I know that the Red Ajah take down any male channelers and we know from Logain that some of them can be quite powerful. What happens if a woman develops simmilar natural channeling, plus self taught destruction magic and doesn't want to join Tar Valon or take oathes? What if she wanted power and such; what exactly would the Aes Sedai do? Is it assumed that such individuals drift towards service to the Dark One and the black ajah?