Does anyone else HATE Jon Snow?

[Ser Rodrik]

I mean, I like him as a character, but his POV's are so long and boring. To me, it seems like the first half of every Jon chapter is crap, and then in the last half stuff actually happens. I also hate how everyone says he's been through so much shit. Not really. For instance, Dany is fighting to regain her birthright after a group of rebels killed almost her entire family, while Tyrion is hated by everyone in KL, even after he saved them from Stannis. While Jon... just gets everything handed to him once he's at the Wall. He becomes the Old Bear's steward, and complains how it isn't fair, and doesn't even take into account how 'fair' it was for sam to be sent away by his father. Then, he survives living with the Wildlings, when Mance Raydar would probably have killed him in real life. And then he gets elected Lord Commander. It just seems to me that Jon does nothing and gets everything.

[Éadaoin]

Not this again...

[danm_999]

I also hate how everyone says he's been through so much shit. Not really.

Oh boy, here we go.

For instance, Dany is fighting to regain her birthright after a group of rebels killed almost her entire family,

Well, if you subscribe to R+L=J, you'd realize that this is also Jon's family and Jon's birthright.

And on the Stark side, things aren't much better for him. Jon's mother is dead. Jon's uncle Ned is dead. Jon's uncle Benjen is missing presumed dead. Jon's closest brother Robb is dead. The rest of Jon's family is presumed dead, except for Sansa.

while Tyrion is hated by everyone in KL, even after he saved them from Stannis. While Jon... just gets everything handed to him once he's at the Wall. He becomes the Old Bear's steward,

Because he manages to drop his attitude and makes fast friends amongst his fellow recruits. Mormont looks at him and sees a leader.

and complains how it isn't fair, and doesn't even take into account how 'fair' it was for sam to be sent away by his father.

And then Donal Noye and Sam point that out to him and he thinks "gee I really was an entitled little shit, I won't be that way anymore".

And guess what, he grows.

Then, he survives living with the Wildlings,

And why does he survive with the Wildlings?

Because he makes an incredibly difficult series of decisions; he kills Quorin, he convinces Mance to trust him, he breaks his vows with Ygritte, he escapes the Magnar of Thenn, and he rides delirious and wounded hundreds of leagues to the Wall, where he coordinates a defense that saves the realm. Oh and while he's doing this, some bottom feeder from King's Landing calls him a traitor, an oathbreaker and a warg, and hangs him from an ice cell to die.

So Jon knows what it's like to get the Tyrion treatment.

I mean, the reductivity of your statement; it's like saying "Then, Aegon the Conqueror invaded Westeros and took it over", completely skipping over why it's impressive.

when Mance Raydar would probably have killed him in real life.

Probably, but he doesn't. And that's because Jon manages to impress him.

And then he gets elected Lord Commander. It just seems to me that Jon does nothing and gets everything.

I'd recommend a re-read.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Thank you danm_999 for reminding me why Jon Snow kicks ass.

[Errant Bard]

Someone with two posts jumping in to validate all the strawmaning done recently in that other Jon thread? Not suspiscious one bit.

[Dolorous Nedd]

I can't help but wonder if the people who think Jon is boring are reading the same books as I am.

[Techelles]

Then, he survives living with the Wildlings, when Mance Raydar would probably have killed him in real life.

Yes...if Jon had gone beyond the 700 ft. magic ice wall to live with tens of thousands of uncouth marauders, mammoth-riding giants, and skin-changing wargs who have banded together to escape the threat of thousands-of-years-old evil ice demons from the Lands of Always Winter in REAL LIFE, he totally would have been killed. I mean, get serious, Martin. What is this, amateur hour in fantasy land?

[Leviathan I]

Yes...if Jon had gone beyond the 700 ft. magic ice wall to live with tens of thousands of uncouth marauders, mammoth-riding giants, and skin-changing wargs who have banded together to escape the threat of thousands-of-years-old evil ice demons from the Lands of Always Winter in real life, he totally would have been killed. I mean, get serious, Martin. What is this, amateur hour in fantasy land?

Yeah, I really didn't like that part of his story, especially Ygritte. But I definitely don't hate him, especially after his interaction with Stannis in ADwD.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Unlike many other characters, Jon does follow some advices, learns and changes his attitude for the better. That's pretty much one of my main reasons to like him.

[Blood of the Flagon]

Not to mention he got some willing ass in the process of his character development.

More seriously... You can argue that he has been through more emotionally than anyone. He had a family that he loved yet was hated and persecuted by his stepmother to the point of choosing virtual exile. Yet he still had too leave people he seriously loved. Then he had to accept that he still had it way better than his fellow recruits and adjusted accordingly. Then he was asked to hazard his life and reputation and kill a respected veteran ranger. Then he gave up his love again. Then he was forced to put gilly's kid and his friend and the most respected member of the watch on a ship. Then he had to make peace with the watch's and the north's ancestral enemy against the instincts of all the NW. Then stand up to a king and a sorceress and turn down a lordship.

But no fuck Jon, he had everything handed to him

[Tagganaro]

Danm already has this covered, but man....seriously?

I love how you just brush over all the crap that happens to Jon to make your point about Dany and Tyrion. Like Jon isn't stuck at the Wall, waiting for horrible news about Ned and Robb and his whole family, while he can't really do anything about it.

And oh yeah, let's not give Jon and Qhorin any credit for selling Mance on keeping him alive. Also, lets forget that Mance knows how useful Jon is if he can be forced to cooperate, which the Ygritte affair seems to be an example of.

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

He falls in love and then gives up his love for the better of the realm. He may not be the King Westeros needs, but he is the King Westeros deserves.

[Lion of Judah]

This is not going to end well. No it is not.

[JonNonRegis]

Get real. Jon's a good kid. He's had some stuff go wrong; among other things, the poor fucker has never once had a pizza in his life. Just imagine that.

It's not his fault that -- just because he's a teen male POV with a mysterious heritage in a fantasy series -- people keep wanting him to bring balance to the Force, er the One Power, er Ice and Fire, and become Muad'Dib, er the Dragon Reborn, er Azor Ahai Reborn and eventually rule the Jedi er Dune er all of that silly continent Robert Jordan dreamed up er all of Westeros.

[Zupoleon]

It just seems to me that Jon does nothing and gets everything.

Looks like we didn't read the same books...