danm_999 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 There is an absolutely spectacularly thread from a few months back that talks about the relationship between Jon and Melisandre, and what exactly, the trappings of power are. Not that I'm complaining the topic is up again (it's a good one), but I think this past one is also a must read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yeah he's a jerk to her, but who cares? Mel is haughty enough as is. She doesnt need everyone worshipping her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne Of Bombay Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 He is/was the LC. I'm sure he had many worries other than Mel. If he treated her any differently than he others people would have said he is conspiring with her. I don't blame him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yes, yes, everyone thinks she has some secret motives or her own agenda, but that's not the point of this post.In aDWD Mel talks about how Jon would never come to her and always made her come to him, and then he'd make her wait outside, and sometimes not allow her entry at all.The only time he shows any real courtesy towards her is when he needs her, or needs her to give him info.Good example would be the heads the Weeper returned. He shows courtesy then, but otherwise he basically goes Selyse style on Mel.Actually, Selyse is perhaps the most friendly of all people towards Melisandre.But really, I don't see why Jon should treat Melisandre any better than he does. If anything I would expect him to give her more of a cold shoulder. It is not like she has earned better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yes, yes, everyone thinks she has some secret motives or her own agenda, but that's not the point of this post.In aDWD Mel talks about how Jon would never come to her and always made her come to him, and then he'd make her wait outside, and sometimes not allow her entry at all.The only time he shows any real courtesy towards her is when he needs her, or needs her to give him info.Good example would be the heads the Weeper returned. He shows courtesy then, but otherwise he basically goes Selyse style on Mel.Could you quote the dialogue that shows Jon being a jerk? I'm not really sure where the idea that he was a jerk is coming from. Is this from the fact that he won't sleep with her when she tries to trick him into it, he won't raise her to the powerful advisor position she craves, or is there dialogue you find rude or something?Selyse's rudeness involved racism toward Wun Wun and the wildlings, obvious contempt for the non-kingly accommodations along the Wall, barbs intended to cut people down, and telling Jon that marching to Hardhome would be the best so that he could die and a more tractable LC could be elected. I don't recall Jon giving anyone the "Selyse" treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Could you quote the dialogue that shows Jon being a jerk? I'm not really sure where the idea that he was a jerk is coming from. Is this from the fact that he won't sleep with her when she tries to trick him into it, he won't raise her to the powerful advisor position she craves, or is there dialogue you find rude or something?Selyse's rudeness involved racism toward Wun Wun and the wildlings, obvious contempt for the non-kingly accommodations along the Wall, barbs intended to cut people down, and telling Jon that marching to Hardhome would be the best so that he could die and a more tractable LC could be elected. I don't recall Jon giving anyone the "Selyse" treatment.he's very cold and dismissive towards her. thats considered rude by most people, and excessive rudeness makes one look like a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 he's very cold and dismissive towards her. thats considered rude by most people, and excessive rudeness makes one look like a jerk.Can you quote where he is "cold and dismissive"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I would say that he's cold, but polite, towards her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfellian Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 he's very cold and dismissive towards her. thats considered rude by most people, and excessive rudeness makes one look like a jerk.Just because Jon isn't all Hey Mel let's do shadow babies together doesn't mean he's cold and dismissive. At most I'd say he treats her with a very formal courtesy, resulting from him being weary towards her. When Jon caught his own friends making fun of her he told them that he won't have any men in the NW moking her or her Red God, which is really something considering the disrespect and intolerance that Mel shows to any other religion that isn't her own, including Jon's own Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 he's very cold and dismissive towards her. thats considered rude by most people, and excessive rudeness makes one look like a jerk.Excessive burning of religious symbols and excessive demeaning of another's religion are also considered rude and makes one look like a jerk. Especially when Jon is a relatively faithful member of that religion, anything more than cold courtesy would be saintly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 just so where clear, im fine with the way he treats her, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angmar Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 As much as I love Melisandre, there's no denying that she's xenophobic and racist.Put yourself in Jon's shoes: this woman comes along suddenly, and though she's beautiful and "exotic" (ugh i hate that word), she's basically a religious fanatic shitting on your own religion forcing her god down your throat; destroying your gods in which you grew up believing in. And threatening to burn you alive if you don't follow her, either religiously or in Stannis' claim.It's no wonder he's cold to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the Green Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think a lot of the dynamic between the two is due to knowledge Melisandre has of Jon and his actions before his promotion. She responds to Jon's, "It's always cold on the Wall...I know so," response with a "you know nothing, Jon Snow," which was like shitting in a still-fresh wound. Part of me thinks that his arrow wound has healed completely, but he still feels the wound of the dead woman who first fired that arrow.The inverse of this equation is that Jon doesn't know more than what the brothers or Melisandre tells him about her past (very little), He has to use guesswork to try and answer any questions he has about the Red Woman. In that same vein, his answers all point to the fact that he can't trust this woman. Her essence as an enigma and unwillingness to share (even when she presses him to do the same) has forced Jon to treat her with polite indignation.She needs him, not the other way around, regardless of the enemy knocking on their door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rise of Dorne Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Can you be a jerk to someone who burns people alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheagar Prime Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 can't blame the guy she is like fire for real nice to look at but don't want to get too close to i don't blame him. But it seems to make her more interested in him i guess she is not used to men treating her so coldly. Its not being a jerk its being a stoic leader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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