Do Jon Snow's Parents matter?

[Ser Creighton]

This is not a topic to debate over who's Jon's parents are. This is a topic about Jon's character, and his story and what actually matters.

The mystery of his parents has captivated a lot of the fans of the series. But after 5 books and the directions the books have gone does it matter who they are?

Let's say Jon is dead, then it does not matter who his parent are. He is dead and his story is over.

Now let's assume Jon is alive. What will knowing who his parents are do for him? He is a good kid, he is smart kid, he is a brave kid. Will that suddenly stop? Will he suddenly become a totally diffent person? Why?

Let's say his parents are L+R. And Howland Reed tells him this. What will that change? Do you think anyone really cares what Howland Reed says in the 7 kingdoms? Do you think anyone will believe him or care? His prood is Howland, that's it.

So lets say that makes him the Prince that was Promised. What does that do for Jon? Jon runs around saying I am the Prince rally to me, rally to me. "Look I have glowing sword named Lightbringer. Come fight the Others with me." Stannis did it, it didn't help him. The fact is The Others are coming and it's going to be fight or die. Fire kills them, dragon glass, Valaryian steel. Danny has three dragons, She has three flaming weapons of mass destruction. Lightbringer looks like a toothpick in comparison.

Not tot mention Jon is already fighting the Others. In the end everyone will have to, weather he is the Prince or not.

Will it make him a better person? He's good people already.

Will it make him the crown Prince? So what if it does, he can't prove who they are even with Howland. Not to mention you don't need to be any one family to hold that Throne. Targs took the 7 kingdoms by force and crowned themselves. Robert took it by force, the Lannisters took it using dirty tactics. Littlefinger may sit on it next. Then someone after him, maybe Danny. The throne is not really doing anything for anyone.

In the story, the mystery has had little effect on the ongoing plots. It has not been a big part of the story. It has been 5 books, and nothing has really changed on the Jon Snow's parents arc, which has not been a big part of his arc. It's not like he really even thinks about it.

So outside of the fact that people are curious, after 5 books most of the main plot events are in motion. I would like to know, but it does not really matter to me in terms of the story. It's been a pretty small part of the books. About 10-15 pages out like 7000 are dedicated to it.

What can it really change? Right now it's just like window dressing or a slight of hand by Martin. Hey look at the shiny object. As a reader I only find it a minor distraction. It does not drive the story or plot, it's just this mystery from the past. The real mystery is why everyone went retarded surrounding his birth, or was it just sloppy writing?

[Dolorous Nedd]

It becomes quite important if Lyanna and Rhaegar were actually married which some people think is possible. If so he would be an actual Targ and have a legitimate claim to the throne. Even if they weren't married that would still make Jon half Targ and half Stark. Half fire half ice. It seems likely if GRRM has gone to the trouble to conceal Jon's parentage it must be important.

[Fat Mac]

I'd say its more important for the Ice and Fire aspect than for any legal claim some say he might have...

[TinHouse]

It becomes quite important if Lyanna and Rhaegar were actually married which some people think is possible. If so he would be an actual Targ and have a legitimate claim to the throne. Even if they weren't married that would still make Jon half Targ and half Strak. Half fire half ice.

Why does it matter if he has a legit claim to the throne though?

Stannis has a legit claim, so do many others in fact.

Baratheons also have Targ. blood....so I have no idea why people talk about it like it's some magical thing. lol Stannis and Dany are family.

Having a claim means nothing when someone, like Robert did to the Targs. and Aegon did to Westeros; can come and take your shit.

Jon's parents don't matter, Rhaegar and Lyanna are just the bella and edward of ASOIAF. They are romanticized, and it's laughable really. I am more comfortable thinking Rhaegar was an idiot and kidnapped Lyanna against her will because I don't want to to believe Ned had such a dumbass for a sister. Though Lyanna running off on him certainly renders that Stark "honor" to be complete BS. Which works too for me I guess. lol

[Frey family reunion]

I personally believe, that the Targareyen link with their dragons relies at least partly on their Valyrian bloodlines. I think as a practical matter, if Jon becomes a dragonrider (and I think all signs point to this as being a distinct possibility) then his heritage is going to be extremely important for that plot line at least.

[Ser Creighton]

It becomes quite important if Lyanna and Rhaegar were actually married which some people think is possible. If so he would be an actual Targ and have a legitimate claim to the throne. Even if they weren't married that would still make Jon half Targ and half Stark. Half fire half ice. It seems likely if GRRM has gone to the trouble to conceal Jon's parentage it must be important.

I understand what your saying. But even if that makes him some sort of half fire half ice person. Well that just makes Jon a convenient plot device. I am saying it won't change his character or the plots that are unfolding. He may have kept the secret but he also has not used it to drive any plots. Jon would still be doing what Jon is doing. It has not been a big part of the story since book one.

In the end it will probably be a nice little plot twist that does not change much of anything. 5 books man, 5 books of no cause or effect from that mystery. I want to know too, I just have lost most of my interest in it. There is so much else going on. The fans have done more to keep it alive than Martin.

[Ser Creighton]

I personally believe, that the Targareyen link with their dragons relies at least partly on their Valyrian bloodlines. I think as a practical matter, if Jon becomes a dragonrider (and I think all signs point to this as being a distinct possibility) then his heritage is going to be extremely important for that plot line at least.

Maybe but there Danny's dragons and they already follow her. He says breath fire she says breath fire. It's not that important. Probably be a third dragon rider as well. Dragon is going to see Jon and be like ride me Jon, ride me? We don't even know if you have to be a Targ to ride a Dragon. It would be cool if he is riding a dragon but will change Jon. Again it acts as a plot device more than anything. Jon you have a special power now. Rhaenys? Does anyone think about Rhaenys the third Dragon rider very much? Did she change Aegons story much? In this case the Dragon is more important than Jon. Drogon seems like the most focused on of the Dragons, and when it comes to the Dragons that is really Danny's story.

The after thought Dragon rider? It's a small plot twist but it's more Danny's story than his, she has been with and about the Dragons for 5 books. Jon zero books.

[Dolorous Nedd]

I understand what your saying. But even if that makes him some sort of half fire half ice person. Well that just makes Jon a convenient plot device. I am saying it won't change his character or the plots that are unfolding. He may have kept the secret but he also has not used it to drive any plots. Jon would still be doing what Jon is doing. It has not been a big part of the story since book one.

In the end it will probably be a nice little plot twist that does not change much of anything. 5 books man, 5 books of no cause or effect from that mystery. I want to know too, I just have lost most of my interest in it. There is so much else going on. The fans have done more to keep it alive than Martin.

The point is the name of the series is a song of ice and fire. If Jon is half Targ and half Stark he is probably destined to be the savior or whatever you want to call it. The point that was made about Jon being a possible dragon rider is also very important.

[Dark Rider]

I think John should learn that in fact, his dad is Stannis Baratheon.

[Dolorous Nedd]

Maybe but there Danny's dragons and they already follow her. He says breath fire she says breath fire. It's not that important. Probably be a third dragon rider as well. Dragon is going to see Jon and be like ride me Jon, ride me? We don't even know if you have to be a Targ to ride a Dragon. It would be cool if he is riding a dragon but will change Jon. Again it acts as a plot device more than anything. Jon you have a special power now. Rhaenys? Does anyone think about Rhaenys the third Dragon rider very much? Did she change Aegons story much? In this case the Dragon is more important than Jon. Drogon seems like the most focused on of the Dragons, and when it comes to the Dragons that is really Danny's story.

The after thought Dragon rider? It's a small plot twist but it's more Danny's story than his, she has been with and about the Dragons for 5 books. Jon zero books.

We still don't know who the other 2 heads of the dragon are...

[Stannis ftw]

I´m ok with R+L=J as long as it doesnt mean anything.

If it´s REALLY magical blood etc, oh crap.

Overall, "noble lineage/bloodline", "bastards are not to be trusted" thing is fitting part of the fake-medieval setting, but we actually know that the lords and their families are no different than anybody, and bastard blood is just the same. But then the author coming and asserting that actually you REALLY have noble blood and this changes everything, would be just dumb.

I'm banking on the possibility that fans are just overjoyed by their "discovery" (enough to write how many, 40 max-length R+L=J threads) and for GRRM its just a meaningless detail in the plot.

[Dolorous Nedd]

I´m ok with R+L=J as long as it doesnt mean anything.

If it´s REALLY magical blood etc, oh crap.

Overall, "noble lineage/bloodline", "bastards are not to be trusted" thing is fitting part of the fake-medieval setting, but we actually know that the lords and their families are no different than anybody, and bastard blood is just the same. But then the author coming and asserting that actually you REALLY have noble blood and this changes everything, would be just dumb.

I'm banking on the possibility that fans are just overjoyed by their "discovery" (enough to write how many, 40 max-length R+L=J threads) and for GRRM its just a meaningless detail in the plot.

I think some of you are missing the point. We need Apple Martini to get in on this.

[TinHouse]

I´m ok with R+L=J as long as it doesnt mean anything.

If it´s REALLY magical blood etc, oh crap.

Overall, "noble lineage/bloodline", "bastards are not to be trusted" thing is fitting part of the fake-medieval setting, but we actually know that the lords and their families are no different than anybody, and bastard blood is just the same. But then the author coming and asserting that actually you REALLY have noble blood and this changes everything, would be just dumb.

I'm banking on the possibility that fans are just overjoyed by their "discovery" (enough to write how many, 40 max-length R+L=J threads) and for GRRM its just a meaningless detail in the plot.

I don't even see how the magical-dragon blood thing would work as the Targs. were not the only families to have dragons. lol

Jon is a classic "secret princess" story to a lot of people; only in this case he's the secret underdog "king."

Completely ignoring the fact that there are MANYYYYY bastards, and many families with Targ. blood as well. And hell if Jon is Lyanna's son then NO he is not from the North as he was not born there. Therefore isn't the "ice" lol.

GRRM has GOT to be a better writer than this honestly, I hope he goes so far in the opposite direction from that theory lol.

[Frey family reunion]

I´m ok with R+L=J as long as it doesnt mean anything.

If it´s REALLY magical blood etc, oh crap.

Overall, "noble lineage/bloodline", "bastards are not to be trusted" thing is fitting part of the fake-medieval setting, but we actually know that the lords and their families are no different than anybody, and bastard blood is just the same. But then the author coming and asserting that actually you REALLY have noble blood and this changes everything, would be just dumb.

I'm banking on the possibility that fans are just overjoyed by their "discovery" (enough to write how many, 40 max-length R+L=J threads) and for GRRM its just a meaningless detail in the plot.

I understand where you're coming from, but if this series has set up anything so far, it's that bloodlines and lineages are extremely important. I think the we're going to find out that the Targaryen motto of fire and blood, isn't just a cool saying, but indicates how important their Valyrian bloodline is. I think this is also why the Targareyens had a tradition of incest, so they could keep their bloodlines pure for this very reason. I don't think that it was a coincidence that the Targaryen's dragons died out, after two generations of Targaryen intermarriage with nonTargaryens. My guess is the blood magic ritual that the ancient Valyrians used to bond with their dragons is passed on through these bloodlines.

My guess is that the Starks may have a similar connection with Winterfell after the blood ritual that occurred many years ago in front of their heart tree (the ritual that Bran observed in the last book).

I don't think that GRRM put this mystery in just to distract his readers, I think it's going to be an integral part of the plotline.

[Frey family reunion]

I don't even see how the magical-dragon blood thing would work as the Targs. were not the only families to have dragons. lol

After the Doom, what other families had dragons other than the Targaryens?

[Ducks in a Field]

The after thought Dragon rider? It's a small plot twist but it's more Danny's story than his, she has been with and about the Dragons for 5 books. Jon zero books.

If thisis Dany's story, she has been a dull protagonist.

[TinHouse]

After the Doom, what other families had dragons other than the Targaryens?

Does it matter?

The Targs. were not the only families with dragons, so how special is their blood really? Any family with dragons could have went over to Westeros, what is special about the Targs. other than the fact that they left for Westeros?

The Targs. were defeated and Robert took the throne. Anyone that wants the throne bad enough can come and take it.

I am still trying to figure out what is so special about Targ. blood that has people harping on this R+L=J shit....yet Dany, Rhaegar's SISTER doesn't seem to impress people all that much with her "blood of the dragon"? lmao

Is it because we know who Dany is, because she's not some tragic secret undog princess? :P

[Pugsley]

I just don't see how we can answer this question until we have all of the books in hand. I expect Jon being the embodiement of ICE AND FIRE, in a series called A Song of Ice and Fire, to be relevant somehow. Building up a mystery over all of these books only for it to boil down to nothing really seems like sloppy writing to me.

[Dolorous Nedd]

I don't even see how the magical-dragon blood thing would work as the Targs. were not the only families to have dragons. lol

Jon is a classic "secret princess" story to a lot of people; only in this case he's the secret underdog "king."

Completely ignoring the fact that there are MANYYYYY bastards, and many families with Targ. blood as well. And hell if Jon is Lyanna's son then NO he is not from the North as he was not born there. Therefore isn't the "ice" lol.

GRRM has GOT to be a better writer than this honestly, I hope he goes so far in the opposite direction from that theory lol.

Lyanna was a Stark. It has nothing to do with the location Jon was born. It has to do with the Starks being the undisputed kings of the north.

[Frey family reunion]

Does it matter?

The Targs. were not the only families with dragons, so how special is their blood really? Any family with dragons could have went over to Westeros, what is special about the Targs. other than the fact that they left for Westeros?

The Targs. were defeated and Robert took the throne. Anyone that wants the throne bad enough can come and take it.

I am still trying to figure out what is so special about Targ. blood that has people harping on this R+L=J shit....yet Dany, Rhaegar's SISTER doesn't seem to impress people all that much with her "blood of the dragon"? lmao

Is it because we know who Dany is, because she's not some tragic secret undog princess? :P

Yes, before the doom, other Valyrian families did have dragons. After the Doom, the Targaryens were the only family left with dragons, that's what makes the Targaryens so special, (it is what allowed them to conquer Westeros, after all). Once the Targs lost their dragons, (which I believed occurred only after several generations of intermarriage) then they were just another family, and this is what enabled Robert to take their throne. I think Dany was able to bring back the dragons only after the blood magic ritual occurred at Dragho's funeral. I also believe that the tragedy at Summerhall may have reignited the dragon blood ties with Rhaegar who was born on the same day. Rhaegar in turn passes this on to Jon who is his son.