Jon Snow and the Others Invasion

[The Iron Suitor]

I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on one question. Will Jon be alive and at the wall when the Others break through whether the wall actually comes down or the Others just come through?

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I checked and don't believe it has.

[Ryan the tall]

Yes

[aryagonnakill]

It's hard to say, we have the two opposing dreams. Jon with his flaming sword on the wall, and Dany battling the others at the trident.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

I think part of the reason he's been taken out is so the wall can fall and it not happen under "His Watch". Mel saw him in the flames as a man, then a wolf, then a man again. I think he's going into a coma for a while where he will be Ghost for a while before recovering. In this time I think the Others will overrun the wall and be pushing into the North at least.

[Bellatrix Stark]

I think part of the reason he's been taken out is so the wall can fall and it not happen under "His Watch". Mel saw him in the flames as a man, then a wolf, then a man again. I think he's going into a coma for a while where he will be Ghost for a while before recovering. In this time I think the Others will overrun the wall and be pushing into the North at least.

I think it all depends on if the Wall really is tied to the NW. If the NW fails/ disbands after the *possible death of their Lord Commander (and especially since the previous LC was murdered by his men), will the Wall fall?

[Robin the Mighty]

yeah the wall is strong as long as the watch is strong and just imagine what tormund is going to do to bowen marsh and his men

[LeananKite]

I think the horn of Joramun will finally be blown and the wall will come down. I dont think that the wall is somehow magically bound to the LC. And nobody will be able to do something about it, not even JS in what ever state he might be (wolf or man).

What do you think, will he be restored in his own body or will he warg into someone else (after some wolfing around)?

[Jon-Michael Pearson]

What if he did die and becomes the leader of the other and weights, thus he brings the winds of winter with him and we have the Fire verse the ICE.

[Hotpie4theironthrone]

I think that the threat from the others has been bubbling under the story for so long now that surely it will come to fruition soon

I think that the point of Jon dying is that he had a good plan to fight the others, but now the NW have killed him he is doomed.

I also agree that we will see him in Warg form, which might be annoying for a while but hopefully he'll make a glorious return in some kind of human form. Not in a robert strong necromancy way, hopefully in a much better way that will surely be involving Mellisandre

[Mulled Wino]

Im hoping he doesnt warg ino Ghost then come back. But im sure he will....

Im getting tired of red priests bringing people back from the dead.

[Archana The Brown Walker]

Im hoping he doesnt warg ino Ghost then come back. But im sure he will....

Im getting tired of red priests bringing people back from the dead.

Yes. Too many ressurections are undermining seriousness of the saga. It is as if death is a minor inconvenience!

[Xcorpyo001]

Yes. Too many ressurections are undermining seriousness of the saga. It is as if death is a minor inconvenience!

Jon is not really dead, so his return(whichever form it may take) can't be seen as a resurrection. Worse case scenario, he's inside Ghost after his body died. Most likely, he's in a coma(warging again), or grievously wounded, but still kicking.

This incident is just a way for GRRM to give him a "get out of the NW free card", because I don't see him taking the Stark card from Rob or the Targ from Reed.

And on the "good" side of this fight, or more correctly named the Anti White Walkers League, there are not many resurrections per say, just one from each major religion.

-we have Miri and her blood magic ritualistic resurrection of Drogo(Ashai)

-Thoros and his "champions"...just one at any given time, so not many there as well

-we have the former knight on the island and the Hound for the seven

-Quiburn and his sick necromancy skills...but Strong is still dead, so this doesn't really count

-Patchface as a messenger of the Drowned God(don't think Damphair and his mad CPR skills has a place on this list)

-Varamyr and his warg last life for the Free Folk(or at least those with warging capabilities)

-Coldhands and his special status

Even if Jon's body is dead, or he's just circling the drain. he has several ways in which he can return:

-slow healing if he's just wounded or comatose

-he becomes a Wright and he takes control of his body as Coldhands(probably a Stark) did

-Mel still has plans for him, and will not stop until she has his shadow babies. Moreover, she stated in her chapter that she is much stronger at the Wall(and she was 10 classes over Thoros to begin with), added to the fact that the Wall will preserve his body and the warging will preserve his soul, he'll be brought back even better than before.

-the wildlings may also be able to help in his recovery

-Bran can find some way to help as well, with some advice from BR, something implicating a certain blood sacrifice and old magics.

But all of this only after the White Walkers go around the Wall or over it or Mel finds a way to bring it down herself trying to wake her stone dragon or whatever.

And only after Stannis will valiantly lead his troops against the WW with his shiny useless sword...what a short fight he'll have with the leader of the WW. I really hope Mel will have a front seat at that moment. it will be an epic chapter.

But my final point is that Jon did not spend several books/years training for the last fight against the WW to be killed while directing traffic around Wun Wun.

I personally don't think he'll survive the end of the series, but as most of the 'main' characters, he'll die in battle or in bed, surrounded by 5 gorgeous and naked women, and not stabbed in the back/gut by the Westerosy equivalent of an accountant.

PS: I just want to add that by the end of WoW, thousands will be brought back from the dead by the Others, so one more will not be such a big stretch, especially since several resurrections were presented just to make this return from Ghost seem more normal(if Jon would have been the first to warg in Ghost, without the Varamyr prologue, or kissed by Mel without the Thoros incident, many would have raged that it is a very far-fetched way to bring his soul back to his body, and that GRRM is grasping at straws to bring him back).

I almost forgot that he's under a bleeding star(courtesy of Wun Wun), with some smoke(his blood steaming at the contact with the cold air) and some salt(the tears of one of the would be assassins), and we can say that his rebirth, not resurrection, has been foretold since the first books, so stop complaining and just go with the flow. It's an easier and much nicer ride.

I was expecting this to happen from the moment I read Mel's chapter and the 'man, wolf, then man again' bit. He's not dead, or even if his body is, it will not stay like that for long.

If GRRM wants some major character dead, he'll kill someone that has no way of coming back, and especially not characters that have to be killed several times to make sure he/she's really dead(Varamyr was talking about seven lives, so I think Jon's soul will survive and warg a wight or another animal, even if Ghost is killed).

I just hope that whatever GRRM decides, it will not involve Bran stealing Jon's body for any length of time, just so he can play at being a knight. That will really piss me off.

[The Mountain That Flies]

What if he did die and becomes the leader of the other and weights, thus he brings the winds of winter with him and we have the Fire verse the ICE.

You're thinking of Stannis.

[Xcorpyo001]

I don't think either one will become some sort of leader for the Others once they die in battle.

That Other chick got herself a puppet king because she was alone(and I think she kept the guy alive, to preserve his mind).

These guys already have a huge zombie army and all the White Walkers officers they need.

Don't think they need a mindless zombie leader, even if it is someone with king blood like Jon or Stannis.

They'll be in the front of any WW army, but just as foot soldiers, their main goal being to lower the morale of the living soldiers, having to fight their own leader/hero/savior.

[aryagonnakill]

I was expecting this to happen from the moment I read Mel's chapter and the 'man, wolf, then man again' bit. He's not dead, or even if his body is, it will not stay like that for long.

If GRRM wants some major character dead, he'll kill someone that has no way of coming back, and especially not characters that have to be killed several times to make sure he/she's really dead(Varamyr was talking about seven lives, so I think Jon's soul will survive and warg a wight or another animal, even if Ghost is killed).

Varamyr did not say that you get 7 lives as a warg. he recounted all the times he had died as a warg while being in an animal. But he does specify that once your body dies you go into an animal and loose your power to warg. You loose yourself over time and turn into the animal, and he referred to dying in the animal you warged after your body died as the true death or final death or something like that.

[The Iron Suitor]

Jon is not really dead, so his return(whichever form it may take) can't be seen as a resurrection. Worse case scenario, he's inside Ghost after his body died. Most likely, he's in a coma(warging again), or grievously wounded, but still kicking.

This incident is just a way for GRRM to give him a "get out of the NW free card", because I don't see him taking the Stark card from Rob or the Targ from Reed.

And on the "good" side of this fight, or more correctly named the Anti White Walkers League, there are not many resurrections per say, just one from each major religion.

-we have Miri and her blood magic ritualistic resurrection of Drogo(Ashai)

-Thoros and his "champions"...just one at any given time, so not many there as well

-we have the former knight on the island and the Hound for the seven

-Quiburn and his sick necromancy skills...but Strong is still dead, so this doesn't really count

-Patchface as a messenger of the Drowned God(don't think Damphair and his mad CPR skills has a place on this list)

-Varamyr and his warg last life for the Free Folk(or at least those with warging capabilities)

-Coldhands and his special status

Even if Jon's body is dead, or he's just circling the drain. he has several ways in which he can return:

-slow healing if he's just wounded or comatose

-he becomes a Wright and he takes control of his body as Coldhands(probably a Stark) did

-Mel still has plans for him, and will not stop until she has his shadow babies. Moreover, she stated in her chapter that she is much stronger at the Wall(and she was 10 classes over Thoros to begin with), added to the fact that the Wall will preserve his body and the warging will preserve his soul, he'll be brought back even better than before.

-the wildlings may also be able to help in his recovery

-Bran can find some way to help as well, with some advice from BR, something implicating a certain blood sacrifice and old magics.

But all of this only after the White Walkers go around the Wall or over it or Mel finds a way to bring it down herself trying to wake her stone dragon or whatever.

And only after Stannis will valiantly lead his troops against the WW with his shiny useless sword...what a short fight he'll have with the leader of the WW. I really hope Mel will have a front seat at that moment. it will be an epic chapter.

But my final point is that Jon did not spend several books/years training for the last fight against the WW to be killed while directing traffic around Wun Wun.

I personally don't think he'll survive the end of the series, but as most of the 'main' characters, he'll die in battle or in bed, surrounded by 5 gorgeous and naked women, and not stabbed in the back/gut by the Westerosy equivalent of an accountant.

PS: I just want to add that by the end of WoW, thousands will be brought back from the dead by the Others, so one more will not be such a big stretch, especially since several resurrections were presented just to make this return from Ghost seem more normal(if Jon would have been the first to warg in Ghost, without the Varamyr prologue, or kissed by Mel without the Thoros incident, many would have raged that it is a very far-fetched way to bring his soul back to his body, and that GRRM is grasping at straws to bring him back).

I almost forgot that he's under a bleeding star(courtesy of Wun Wun), with some smoke(his blood steaming at the contact with the cold air) and some salt(the tears of one of the would be assassins), and we can say that his rebirth, not resurrection, has been foretold since the first books, so stop complaining and just go with the flow. It's an easier and much nicer ride.

I was expecting this to happen from the moment I read Mel's chapter and the 'man, wolf, then man again' bit. He's not dead, or even if his body is, it will not stay like that for long.

If GRRM wants some major character dead, he'll kill someone that has no way of coming back, and especially not characters that have to be killed several times to make sure he/she's really dead(Varamyr was talking about seven lives, so I think Jon's soul will survive and warg a wight or another animal, even if Ghost is killed).

I just hope that whatever GRRM decides, it will not involve Bran stealing Jon's body for any length of time, just so he can play at being a knight. That will really piss me off.

Pretty much agree with what you said with the addition of: I think the reason Jon was "killed" was to let the others invade without downsizing Jon's abilities. If Jon truly is the leader against the others no one would follow him if he was the LC who let the others breach the wall. This is his out; he can now say I held them at bay, but when I was gone look what happened.

[Hotpie4theironthrone]

Im hoping he doesnt warg ino Ghost then come back. But im sure he will....

Im getting tired of red priests bringing people back from the dead.

Yes. Too many ressurections are undermining seriousness of the saga. It is as if death is a minor inconvenience!

I completely agree, i really want the next major death to be a clean one, no speculation or ambiguities and no chance of ressurection

[Montey14]

I stil have a pretty tough time understanding how the others will actually get over the wall. They don't seem to have climbing equipment and don't seem to posess the mental ability to creat climbing tools....Do they have superhuman ability and perhaps leap 700 feet over the wall....the only way they can get into the realm is to basically knock it down or find some kind of passageway through the wall....otherwise I see the initial wave of the assault being repelled pretty easily if the don't find away to get over or through the wall.

[Blutrabe]

I stil have a pretty tough time understanding how the others will actually get over the wall. They don't seem to have climbing equipment and don't seem to posess the mental ability to creat climbing tools....Do they have superhuman ability and perhaps leap 700 feet over the wall....the only way they can get into the realm is to basically knock it down or find some kind of passageway through the wall....otherwise I see the initial wave of the assault being repelled pretty easily if the don't find away to get over or through the wall.

The Horn of Joramun is still out there...

[Lord_Tyrell]

It's hard to say, we have the two opposing dreams. Jon with his flaming sword on the wall, and Dany battling the others at the trident.

Why are they opposing? Jon with his flaming sword could really be his awakening as Asor Ahai reborn, and Dany could battle the Others at the Trident later.