Dany ,the Dragonlord,and the Dragonbond

[Squire Dalbridge]

Yes, but are those two (dragons) actually unbounded? Remember what Selmy said when they descended to the pit with Quentyn and they heard the roar. "The Dragons always know when their mother is near", or something. (Sorry, no actual quote or more info about it to provide just now.)

Not bounded the way Drogon is, but still not unbounded. I don't believe that some other person is going to form a stronger bond with them than their mother has. But maybe I'm feeling just some "Dragon-envy", like some fellow poster pointed out in another thread...

[Squire Dalbridge]

And so does Dany, so really there isn't a difference.

I meant that Dany saw herself with dragons in her dreams, but the Stark kids dreamed themselves AS BEING a wolf. That's the difference. But maybe there were some dream where Dany was a dragon, and I just missed it.

[Sordelor]

No, if she's a warg, it's a weak one, not a very strong one.

[wolfmaid7]

Yes, but are those two (dragons) actually unbounded? Remember what Selmy said when they descended to the pit with Quentyn and they heard the roar. "The Dragons always know when their mother is near", or something. (Sorry, no actual quote or more info about it to provide just now.)

Not bounded the way Drogon is, but still not unbounded. I don't believe that some other person is going to form a stronger bond with them than their mother has. But maybe I'm feeling just some "Dragon-envy", like some fellow poster pointed out in another thread...

I think another person can,Dany had specific dreams of Drogon,he was the one reaching out to her cleansing her with his song and flame.She survived his test then claimed him.

"Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt a dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temperd her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce"(AGOT,Dany).

"I was," she answered, standing over the dragon's eggs that Illyrio had given her when she wed. She touched one, the largest of the three, running her hand lightly over the shelf. Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream. The stone felt strangely warm beneath her fingers . . . or was she still dreaming? She pulled her hand back nervously ( AGOT,Dany).

The other two as i've pointed out are vulnerable because their riders may have died in the distant past,may not have even been born yet or heard their call but not know they did. While they have a connection to Dany which can be seen as only familiarity or temporary imprinting they are not bonded to her. Remember per my OP the text indicates and it is written,one rider,one Dragon at a time,so she cannot bond to all three." Ageon never rode his sisters dragons nor they either of them dare mount Balerion"( Paraphrasing).

No, if she's a warg, it's a weak one, not a very strong one.

Just a suggestion,read the OP in full so you can see the textual evidence so you can see where the conversations are. :D

[Sordelor]

Just a suggestion,read the OP in full so you can see the textual evidence so you can see where the conversations are. :D

Sorry, I misread the topic title...

[CanadianWolvie]

I meant that Dany saw herself with dragons in her dreams, but the Stark kids dreamed themselves AS BEING a wolf. That's the difference. But maybe there were some dream where Dany was a dragon, and I just missed it.

I hope you aren't missing it, I quoted it and gave the page number where I read it in my hard cover of Dance so you and others would know the quote is word for word.

Of course, I could see how one might view the description of her dreaming as symbolic subconcious or perhaps even prophetic dreaming since there are examples of that already but to me, it reads like a condensed version of what it would be to view the world through Drogon's eyes, fire and blood, probably when he was out hunting. (Page 672 ADWD)

How do I reach this conclusion? Because first we are told Dragons are fire made flesh and then we get to have the slightly off from first person perspective of Drogon killing the horse for a meal with Dany and the previous scorched earth Dany observes from the air and that she realizes she never needed the whip - these things made me think of the previous dreaming within context. Then also thinking of what a condensed version of how a dire wolf dream might be described, most often by Arya - and this time I paraphrase / summarize - "And it was smells, the hunt, the blood ... but wolf dreams doesn't feed the girl" Man, those blind Arya chapters are great and in similar fashion, in such a dark world, its cool to watch Dany become more accepting of the blood and all that may entail as they find empowerment by being able to see the perspectives of the creatures in their lives with the alley cat and Drogon.

Such weaving of magic into the setting, its fantastic.

[wolfmaid7]

Beyond all these little bits of Westerosi history repeating, we also get our first real glimpse of dragon-centric warfare, along with the problem of finding able riders. Since dragons will only accept and bond with riders of Targaryen blood, the story chronicles the search for bastard-born “dragonseeds” to join the fray (with mixed results)—a subplot which clearly holds some potential relevance for Daenerys and her trio of dragons as events continue to unfold in the novels…

The above is an excerpt from someone who read "Dangerous women" and it seems the theory about bonding with a Dragon is true.

[The Others Take Ya]

Beyond all these little bits of Westerosi history repeating, we also get our first real glimpse of dragon-centric warfare, along with the problem of finding able riders. Since dragons will only accept and bond with riders of Targaryen blood, the story chronicles the search for bastard-born “dragonseeds” to join the fray (with mixed results)—a subplot which clearly holds some potential relevance for Daenerys and her trio of dragons as events continue to unfold in the novels…

The above is an excerpt from someone who read "Dangerous women" and it seems the theory about bonding with a Dragon is true.

Awesome!!! A very very good

start, if not outright proof, to proving what you've been writing about.

Congrats on your wonderful analysis work wolfmaid7! :D Really looking forward to reading this story and then reading over this thread to compare the results.

I confess I'm excited!

[wolfmaid7]

Awesome!!! A very very good

start, if not outright proof, to proving what you've been writing about.

Congrats on your wonderful analysis work wolfmaid7! :D Really looking forward to reading this story and then reading over this thread to compare the results.

I confess I'm excited!

Thanks very much OTY, i must say i'm very happy with the recent development,my thread has gotten a lot of lip,that have been less than positive but i am glad that a fair amount of people have been supportive.I am very excited myself because to me it really opens up the field.I'm looking forward to serious conversations on the thread now that a huge chunk of it has been validated.

[ginaflynn]

I truly believe that Dany is a warg, because there will be a twist and that Dany will turn out to be lyannas daughter. She is part stark, just like John is half stark and half Targ. Fire and Ice-Dany and John will turn out to be twins. There has to be a second set of twins somewhere in the story.

[wolfmaid7]

I truly believe that Dany is a warg, because there will be a twist and that Dany will turn out to be lyannas daughter. She is part stark, just like John is half stark and half Targ. Fire and Ice-Dany and John will turn out to be twins. There has to be a second set of twins somewhere in the story.

Welcome, i don't think i've ever heard that one before ( Dany being Jon's twin), i don't think i've ever considered that so i'm looking forward to your proof of that.The Dragonbond per now seems particular to the Targs,for some reason the Dragons love them,it could be a matter of some unforeseen connection yet to be revealed.For now i'm saying it's something in the Targ blood seeing as she is not the first for the Dragons to bond to.So i doubt she is a Warg(Wolf).

[Mace Cooterian]

Beyond all these little bits of Westerosi history repeating, we also get our first real glimpse of dragon-centric warfare, along with the problem of finding able riders. Since dragons will only accept and bond with riders of Targaryen blood, the story chronicles the search for bastard-born “dragonseeds” to join the fray (with mixed results)—a subplot which clearly holds some potential relevance for Daenerys and her trio of dragons as events continue to unfold in the novels…

The above is an excerpt from someone who read "Dangerous women" and it seems the theory about bonding with a Dragon is true.

wolfmaid7....haven't seen this exerpt but am looking forward to my reserved copy hitting my doorstep on December 3rd. Not to poo-poo the notion but I hope that this excerpt does not extend the two remaining books beyonds its limit. If we have to wait around for Dany to search high and low throughout Essos, Valyria and Westeros to find......blood lineage....we might well be in for more books beyond ADoS.

"The Glass is always half full".......Dangerous Women should be an awesome read; specifically in the area of Dragon Riding 101.

[wolfmaid7]

wolfmaid7....haven't seen this exerpt but am looking forward to my reserved copy hitting my doorstep on December 3rd. Not to poo-poo the notion but I hope that this excerpt does not extend the two remaining books beyonds its limit. If we have to wait around for Dany to search high and low throughout Essos, Valyria and Westeros to find......blood lineage....we might well be in for more books beyond ADoS.

"The Glass is always half full".......Dangerous Women should be an awesome read; specifically in the area of Dragon Riding 101.

I'm terrified at that notion i really am,but that being said i really am excited to see where this goes.You can see the entire review here

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/07/story-review-george-r-r-martin-the-princess-and-the-queen-or-the-blacks-and-the-greens

[evita mgfs]

Martin write with scrupulous meanness, and he narrates for an audience that he assumes have perception, insight, and intellect. He creates works that invite discussion and analysis. Martin excels in his craft on many levels, including the organization and structure of each novel.

I think it is significant that Martin purposely FRAMES his first novel AGoT with similar, yet different events that serve to connect those involved and foreshadow what may come:

At the beginning of AGoT, after the Prologue, Stark children are delivered six direwolves, one for each Stark child, even the bastard. Likewise, the novel concludes with Khaleesi delivering three dragons, a fulfillment of a prophecy that the dragon has three heads.

So by the structure of his prose venue, Martin emphasizes the important roles the Starks/direwolves and Targs/Dragons will play throughout the series.

[wolfmaid7]

Martin write with scrupulous meanness, and he narrates for an audience that he assumes have perception, insight, and intellect. He creates works that invite discussion and analysis. Martin excels in his craft on many levels, including the organization and structure of each novel.

I think it is significant that Martin purposely FRAMES his first novel AGoT with similar, yet different events that serve to connect those involved and foreshadow what may come:

At the beginning of AGoT, after the Prologue, Stark children are delivered six direwolves, one for each Stark child, even the bastard. Likewise, the novel concludes with Khaleesi delivering three dragons, a fulfillment of a prophecy that the dragon has three heads.

So by the structure of his prose venue, Martin emphasizes the important roles the Starks/direwolves and Targs/Dragons will play throughout the series.

I agree with you Evita what's a great point of reference is the significance of these animals as spirit guides and it is the guides that chooses the proxies.For that reason i'm looking more closely at Wolves and Dragons themselves because i believe these creatures are more involved than we think.

[evita mgfs]

I agree with you Evita what's a great point of reference is the significance of these animals as spirit guides and it is the guides that chooses the proxies.For that reason i'm looking more closely at Wolves and Dragons themselves because i believe these creatures are more involved than we think.

:bowdown: WOLFMAID7: THANK YOU! I have a piece I wrote - if I can find it - where I broke down the colors of the dragon eggs in AGoT with the colors of the direwolves - and then I compared the colors associated with the CotF with the Stark direwolves. If I can find it, I will post it here. Obviously, Drogon and Shaggydog are black, but black is the polar opposite of "white", and Ghost is white with red eyes. But I cannot recall how I analyzed the colors - I know I referenced color symbology - so I will go through my files.

Do not get discouraged! You are doing a great job, and you are always respectful even when others are not. I just think people are very passionate about their interpretations.

A confession: When I first read AGoT, I speculated that Jon and Dany were twin brother and sister, separated somehow along the lines of the "Star Wars" movies with Leah and Luke. :dunno: Since then, I have changed my mind many times about such possible relationships. :cool4:

[wolfmaid7]

:bowdown: WOLFMAID7: THANK YOU! I have a piece I wrote - if I can find it - where I broke down the colors of the dragon eggs in AGoT with the colors of the direwolves - and then I compared the colors associated with the CotF with the Stark direwolves. If I can find it, I will post it here. Obviously, Drogon and Shaggydog are black, but black is the polar opposite of "white", and Ghost is white with red eyes. But I cannot recall how I analyzed the colors - I know I referenced color symbology - so I will go through my files.

Do not get discouraged! You are doing a great job, and you are always respectful even when others are not. I just think people are very passionate about their interpretations.

A confession: When I first read AGoT, I speculated that Jon and Dany were twin brother and sister, separated somehow along the lines of the "Star Wars" movies with Leah and Luke. :dunno: Since then, I have changed my mind many times about such possible relationships. :cool4:

Lo i heard that one too about Dany and Jon being twins ....I hope not.

But on another note i really started focusing o the Spirit guide aspect of Wolves and Dragons.Leaf's assertion in ADWD puts the DW''S on equal footing them.So they equate to one of the old races and i believe the same is true of the Dragons.

They like the DW's seem to be a race that are very telepathic and need human conduits into our world. I envisioned that this would have been a problem especially during first contact where communication was conducted differently. The obvious language barriers would have made the only possible means of communication via creatures like Direwolves and Dragons.

As i am also a student of cultural anthropology i could see humans seeing other humans who were vessels of these external powers as threats.Which is what i believe happened with the Targs on Valyria.They could have been seen as threats as other Dragonlords might of feared for their mounts being stolen.

Hopefully when Dangerous women is released in December i can get more info on the importance of the "Dragonseed" search.

I can't wait for your color analogy,i'm doing the same with the DW's from a Shamanistic point.

[evita mgfs]

Lo i heard that one too about Dany and Jon being twins ....I hope not.

But on another note i really started focusing o the Spirit guide aspect of Wolves and Dragons.Leaf's assertion in ADWD puts the DW''S on equal footing them.So they equate to one of the old races and i believe the same is true of the Dragons.

They like the DW's seem to be a race that are very telepathic and need human conduits into our world. I envisioned that this would have been a problem especially during first contact where communication was conducted differently. The obvious language barriers would have made the only possible means of communication via creatures like Direwolves and Dragons.

As i am also a student of cultural anthropology i could see humans seeing other humans who were vessels of these external powers as threats.Which is what i believe happened with the Targs on Valyria.They could have been seen as threats as other Dragonlords might of feared for their mounts being stolen.

h

Hopefully when Dangerous women is released in December i can get more info on the importance of the "Dragonseed" search.

I can't wait for your color analogy,i'm doing the same with the DW's from a Shamanistic point.

:bowdown: :bowdown: WOLFMAID7: If you have any good sites on Spirit Wolf or Spirit Guides, please post them. I'd enjoy reading more so that I have a stronger understanding, although I used to read this kind of thing in volumes in my teens. So I have that creepy "twilight zone" feeling of a lost memory slowly returning :eek: .

Anyways, I found a good quote from AGoT about Dany and her silver. I hope it was not presented already.

“The khal had commanded the handmaid Irri to teach Dany to ride in the Dothraki fashion, but it was the filly who was her real teacher. The horse seemed to know her moods, as if they shared a single mind. With every passing day, Dany felt surer in her seat. The Dothraki were a hard and unsentimental people, and it was not their custom to name their animals, so Dany thought of her only as the silver. She had never loved anything so much” (AGoT).

• Daenerys attributes her advancement in equestrian skills to her filly who teaches her by sharing her moods and her mind, which directly corresponds to the relationships several of the Starks form with their direwolves.

• The Dothraki custom of not naming their horses reminds me of the wildling’s custom of not naming their children until their survival is more certain.

[evita mgfs]

Thanks very much OTY, i must say i'm very happy with the recent development,my thread has gotten a lot of lip,that have been less than positive but i am glad that a fair amount of people have been supportive.I am very excited myself because to me it really opens up the field.I'm looking forward to serious conversations on the thread now that a huge chunk of it has been validated.

:cheers: CONGRATULATIONS, WOLFMAID7!!

Please read some of my work in the Blood Motif and how it Empowers the Stark children through their Direwolves.http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/94439-the-blood-motif-in-asoiafsymbolismanalysispatterns/ It is deep, thorough analysis of how each Stark displays a profound skill or consequence after his/her direwolf tastes blood. My theory seemingly augments yours regarding the Starks. But it is an ongoing writing project. I am still revising the last part of 'Bran'.

:bowdown: GOOD JOB! Blood on all sides is symbolic and important!

[MoIaF]

wolfmaid7

Excellent theory, I completely agree with the idea of Dany being bonded to Drogon on the same level as the Stark children being bonded with their direwolves.

Thank you for explaining it so well, I also appreciate all the research you did to back your theory. I don't understand why so many people are keen to dismiss the obvious connection Dany has with Drogon especially after the events of ADWD. Actually, I see Dany's time with Drogon in ADWD as kind of having her "third eye awaken" she finally open herself to accepting and embracing her bond with Drogon.

As evita mgfs mentioned as the Starks were sent the direwolves Dany was sent the dragons, I personally think that the magic that sent the familiars might be from the same source and it was in preparation for the upcoming War for Dawn.

Anyways, thanks again for a great read.