Dany ,the Dragonlord,and the Dragonbond

[MaesterSam]

It was in ACOK when Arya visits the godswood when she prays to the Old Gods, only to have Jaqen interrupt her. I don't remember anything about Hoat or Botlton's men doing anything to the heart tree, but I could be mistaken.

Yea and its got a really pissed off look on its face

Very interesting indeed that Harrenhal would have a heart tree. Do we know how old it is? In other words, could it have been planted by later lords of Harrenhal, not the original builder (Black Harren)? He clearly was not a believer in the old gods, or he wouldn't have used all those weirdwoods in building it.

At one time, people beilieved the "world tree," was the gateway between men and the gods, and it was considered taboo to just cut down a tree, when that tree could contain the spirit of the living.

Here is an interesting Native American legend that sounds eerily like tCotF, and it comes from the american South West.

The Talking Tree

"After European missionaries introduced Christianity to the Native Americans, the Yaqui of the American Southwest created a myth about a talking tree that spread the news of the new faith. One day the people came upon a tree whose vibrations made a sound that no one could understand. A wise woman who lived deep in the forest sent her daughter to interpret the sounds. The talking tree told of the Christian God and the priests who would soon arrive to teach the people new beliefs and new ways. Not everyone welcomed the coming changes. Some people left to dwell under the ground, taking the old ways with them. Those who remained became the Yaqu"

I love this! Great parallel to the CotF.

[wolfmaid7]

We have reached that place in the thread it must come to an end and it seems a fitting point as we have evolved to talk about the "songs" that bond Direwolves and Dragons to their other halves. Therefore, I hope you all will join me on "those who sing" on the Dance forum.

I would like to thank all of you who stuck by the concept of the Dragon bond and who added to this thread.Hopefully I will see you guys on the other.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/110263-those-who-sing/

[Alia of the knife]

We have reached that place in the thread it must come to an end and it seems a fitting point as we have evolved to talk about the "songs" that bond Direwolves and Dragons to their other halves. Therefore, I hope you all will join me on "those who sing" on the Dance forum.

I would like to thank all of you who stuck by the concept of the Dragon bond and who added to this thread.Hopefully I will see you guys on the other.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/110263-those-who-sing/

See you there!!! :thumbsup:

[Amoracchius]

Very interesting indeed that Harrenhal would have a heart tree. Do we know how old it is? In other words, could it have been planted by later lords of Harrenhal, not the original builder (Black Harren)? He clearly was not a believer in the old gods, or he wouldn't have used all those weirdwoods in building it.

There are a number of odd things about Harrenhal. Off the top of my head:

1) It's an ironborn castle with a godswood.

Do Pyke or any other castle on the Iron Islands have a godswood? I don't recall there being any. Why would Black Harren build a place for worship of the Old Gods? There's a godswood in King's Landing and Aegon the Conqueror didn't worship the Old Gods, but it made sense that, when building the new capital of Westeros, he would want to respect the faiths of the people he hoped to rule. Harren, on the other hand, had no such need, so why build it?

2) Weirwood was used in its construction.

Despite being told that the Andals cut down all the weirwoods south of the Neck except for on the Isle of Faces, when Harren was building his castle, long after the Andal invasion, he found enough weirwood to construct beams and rafters. Where did it come from? The Isle of Faces? Is it possible that the destruction of weirwoods by the Andals was exaggerated?

3) It's heart tree is a living weirwood.

So Black Harren had so little respect for the Old Gods that he would chop up their sacred trees to make two-by-fours ...but he preserved one particular weirwood and built a traditional godswood around it? That doesn't really add up.

[MaesterSam]

There are a number of odd things about Harrenhal. Off the top of my head:

1) It's an ironborn castle with a godswood.

Do Pyke or any other castle on the Iron Islands have a godswood? I don't recall there being any. Why would Black Harren build a place for worship of the Old Gods? There's a godswood in King's Landing and Aegon the Conqueror didn't worship the Old Gods, but it made sense that, when building the new capital of Westeros, he would want to respect the faiths of the people he hoped to rule. Harren, on the other hand, had no such need, so why build it?

2) Weirwood was used in its construction.

Despite being told that the Andals cut down all the weirwoods south of the Neck except for on the Isle of Faces, when Harren was building his castle, long after the Andal invasion, he found enough weirwood to construct beams and rafters. Where did it come from? The Isle of Faces? Is it possible that the destruction of weirwoods by the Andals was exaggerated?

3) It's heart tree is a living weirwood.

So Black Harren had so little respect for the Old Gods that he would chop up their sacred trees to make two-by-fours ...but he preserved one particular weirwood and built a traditional godswood around it? That doesn't really add up.

1) I don't think so. But there may have been weirwoods in the past; Nagga's ribs are most likely petrified weirwood stumps, and Asha mentions an island she could run to after the kingsmoot. She says it has old ruins and weirwood trees.... So it appears the trees can grow on the islands. But I don't remember reading anything about a godswood in any ironborn castles.

No clue why Black Harren would plant a weirwood... maybe it's 'expected' for castles to have both a sept and a godswood, so they can accommodate people of all faiths? Riverrun has a godswood I think, even though the Tullys believe in the Seven. Somewhere it is mentioned that an attempt was made to grow a weirwood in the Eyrie, but the soil was too thin and it couldn't grow.

2) Excellent question! Where did it come from? I'm pretty sure if he had raided the Isle of Faces someone would have noticed (such as the green men) and there would have been consequences. As for the scale of weirwood destruction being exaggerated- I would think that when they first came and were fighting the children and FM, the Andals destroyed every weirwood tree they came across. But probably later, once the children were in hiding behind the Wall and there was peace, the weirwoods were no longer seen as a threat and the few surviving trees were left alone. Also, any young trees that were missed in the 'massacre' would grow bigger, and new saplings could even germinate from buried seeds... (since we're talking about a time scale of thousands of years here)... in short, they may be slowly making a comeback in the south. Interestingly, trees that grew from saplings after the children left to beyond the Wall would not have faces in them.

3) I think it's funny that he planted a weirwood and a godswood around it. What ever happened to "we do not sow"?

[Alia of the knife]

Stark+CotF= Nettles? :cool4:

"They were a people with a deep connection to the land. The children wielded obsidian weapons and bows in battle, but also used powerful magic.

Legends say the children of the forest were gifted with supernatural powers and magic; having power over the beasts of the wood, the ability to wear an animal’s skin, the skill to create music so beautiful as to bring tears to the eyes of any who heard it, the greensight ability (although maesters believe that the greensight was not magic, simply another kind of knowledge) and the ability to speak to the dead.

It was the children who carved the faces on the weirwoods to keep watch over the woods. They believe that their wisdom had something to do with the faces in the trees. The children of the forest believed that the weirwood trees were gods, and when they died they became a part of them."

[Angalin]

Discussion of Harrenhal can move into another thread. Wrapping this up now.