Dany ,the Dragonlord,and the Dragonbond

[Alia of the knife]

The idea of the "World tree" is exactly what i think is the foundation of the world North of the Wall.Very strong Native American parallel also,it will be nice to see how this theme is concluded.

Exactly that, and I think Harrenhals curse is connected to the Weirwoods its made of.

[wolfmaid7]

Exactly that, and I think Harrenhals curse is connected to the Weirwoods its made of.

I never even considered that,intriguing, that would explain the "bad juju" at that place.

[Amoracchius]

Exactly that, and I think Harrenhals curse is connected to the Weirwoods its made of.

This. Very much this. I've also frequently wondered why Harrenhal, build by the Ironborn, is one of the few castles in the South to have a weirwood heart tree in its godswood.

[wolfmaid7]

This. Very much this. I've also frequently wondered why Harrenhal, build by the Ironborn, is one of the few castles in the South to have a weirwood heart tree in its godswood.

I can't recall but is the Heart tree still standing at Harrenhal?

[Amoracchius]

I can't recall but is the Heart tree still standing at Harrenhal?

It was in ACOK when Arya visits the godswood when she prays to the Old Gods, only to have Jaqen interrupt her. I don't remember anything about Hoat or Botlton's men doing anything to the heart tree, but I could be mistaken.

[Frey family reunion]

I can't recall but is the Heart tree still standing at Harrenhal?

Yea and its got a really pissed off look on its face

[wolfmaid7]

It was in ACOK when Arya visits the godswood when she prays to the Old Gods, only to have Jaqen interrupt her. I don't remember anything about Hoat or Botlton's men doing anything to the heart tree, but I could be mistaken.

Thanks i shall check.

Yea and its got a really pissed off look on its face

Lol Dragonflame can change ones countenance.

[wolfmaid7]

It's possible but like I think it's just as likely that in addition to Drogo, Rhaego (and possibly MMD) that the animus of the two horses also likely went into the two dragons.

My guess is during the initial blood ritual, Drogo's animus went into one of the eggs (likely Drogons') and his horse's animus went into him (which kind of explains his less than articulate nature after the ritual). If you recall that was the point of the entire blood ritual in the first place, MMD was putting the life force of the horse into Drago. In the meantime, Rhaego's animus went into the other egg.

Then during the funeral pyre, Drogo's horse captured inside of Drogo would have been released and may have gone into one of the other eggs (I like to think it went into Drogon). Thus we have Drogon who will have a greater capacity to be ridden, and a greater capacity to bond with Dany (in a husband wife sort of way, emotionally anyway). Then another horse was sacrificed as well at the pyre.

If MMD's animus wasnt' put into one of the eggs, and I'll get to that in a second, then the second horse that was killed at the funeral pyre may have been the animus that hatched the third egg (Rhaegal's the one without Rhaego).

Thus we'd have Viserion with the animus of Rhaego, Rhaegal with perhaps just the animus of the second horse (which would make it a likely canidate to be taken over by the dragon horn) and Drogon with both the animus of Drogo and his horse.

I am unsure about MMD because as opposed to being a sacrifice like Drogo and Rhaego who were powerless participants through the rituals, she had more of a chance to affect and steer the rituals. Remember she appeared to be casting spells all the way up to the time of her death, so it may be that she wasn't a sacrifice used to imbue the egg.

I never got a chance to read this and answer you,but after i read it i like it,specifically the horses part,and i think you are right.My mind went directly to Rheagal as b eing more likely to get snagged by a horn.Viserion i believe will choose a rider.

[Alia of the knife]

I never even considered that,intriguing, that would explain the "bad juju" at that place.

This. Very much this. I've also frequently wondered why Harrenhal, build by the Ironborn, is one of the few castles in the South to have a weirwood heart tree in its godswood.

At one time, people beilieved the "world tree," was the gateway between men and the gods, and it was considered taboo to just cut down a tree, when that tree could contain the spirit of the living.

Here is an interesting Native American legend that sounds eerily like tCotF, and it comes from the american South West.

The Talking Tree

"After European missionaries introduced Christianity to the Native Americans, the Yaqui of the American Southwest created a myth about a talking tree that spread the news of the new faith. One day the people came upon a tree whose vibrations made a sound that no one could understand. A wise woman who lived deep in the forest sent her daughter to interpret the sounds. The talking tree told of the Christian God and the priests who would soon arrive to teach the people new beliefs and new ways. Not everyone welcomed the coming changes. Some people left to dwell under the ground, taking the old ways with them. Those who remained became the Yaqu"

[wolfmaid7]

At one time, people beilieved the "world tree," was the gateway between men and the gods, and it was considered taboo to just cut down a tree, when that tree could contain the spirit of the living.

Here is an interesting Native American legend that sounds eerily like tCotF, and it comes from the american South West.

The Talking Tree

"After European missionaries introduced Christianity to the Native Americans, the Yaqui of the American Southwest created a myth about a talking tree that spread the news of the new faith. One day the people came upon a tree whose vibrations made a sound that no one could understand. A wise woman who lived deep in the forest sent her daughter to interpret the sounds. The talking tree told of the Christian God and the priests who would soon arrive to teach the people new beliefs and new ways. Not everyone welcomed the coming changes. Some people left to dwell under the ground, taking the old ways with them. Those who remained became the Yaqu"

Oooo I love it, can I use this myth for the other OP I'm writing, ill credit that to you.

This is an amazing fine.This is a Lakota ledgend is it? That tribe is in New Mexico

[Alia of the knife]

Oooo I love it, can I use this myth for the other OP I'm writing, ill credit that to you.

This is an amazing fine.This is a Lakota ledgend is it? That tribe is in New Mexico

Sure, and as for the last, I think it's Lakota.

But not only does aSoIaF parallel this story, but its a similar experience to the ancient Britons when the Saxons came, and later the Normans.

(Despite what the show the "Vikings" says, I'm not entirely sure all the Saxons gave up their old ways).

It would be interesting to see what affect a Weirwood has on a dragons dreams.

Edit: To add to parallels, the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros are very similar to the orginial Seven Kingdoms of Britain before William the Conqueror, with a real Narrow Sea that stood between them and Normandy and Brittainy.

- Northumbria

- Mercia

- East Anglia

- Essex

- Kent

- Sussex

- Wessex

[wolfmaid7]

Sure, and as for the last, I think it's Lakota.

But not only does aSoIaF parallel this story, but its a similar experience to the ancient Britons when the Saxons came, and later the Normans.

(Despite what the show the "Vikings" says, I'm not entirely sure all the Saxons gave up their old ways).

It would be interesting to see what affect a Weirwood has on a dragons dreams.

Edit: To add to parallels, the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros are very similar to the orginial Seven Kingdoms of Britain before William the Conqueror, with a real Narrow Sea that stood between them and Normandy and Brittainy.

- Northumbria

- Mercia

- East Anglia

- Essex

- Kent

- Sussex

- Wessex

Thanks Alia!

I've been wondering about this as well and i'm thinking it would probably act as a conduit between the Dragon like the Direwolves and the tree this is fits perfect if we apply the World tree concept to how they communicate.

I recall Bran's dream of the Weirwood tree talking to him and the 3 eyed Crow that flew out from it proceeding to call Btan's name. So i'm guessing that it could possibly work like that,but through the Dragon vice versa the tree to the individual who has the connection to their spirit animal.

[Alia of the knife]

Thanks Alia!

I've been wondering about this as well and i'm thinking it would probably act as a conduit between the Dragon like the Direwolves and the tree this is fits perfect if we apply the World tree concept to how they communicate.

I recall Bran's dream of the Weirwood tree talking to him and the 3 eyed Crow that flew out from it proceeding to call Btan's name. So i'm guessing that it could possibly work like that,but through the Dragon vice versa the tree to the individual who has the connection to their spirit animal.

Did you catch the new information on the Stark family tree yet?

[wolfmaid7]

Did you catch the new information on the Stark family tree yet?

No, I did not. What juice?

[Alia of the knife]

No, I did not. What juice?

Girrrrlllll, let me tell you then. :D

For starters, Rickard's wife was his second cousin, (or first cousin once removed), a Stark herself and her name was Lyarra. So, when Martin was asked about who his wife was, and he replied, "Lady Stark," he was speaking the truth.

And in the distant past, there was a marriage between an Edric Stark, (and ready), his half-NIECE Serena.

So, the Targaryens not the only ones playing at incest. :stillsick:

Here is the link:

http://edelweiss-assets.abovethetreeline.com/RH/supplemental/GRRM_WOIF_SellPacket_spreads-lowres.pdf

[wolfmaid7]

Girrrrlllll, let me tell you then. :D

For starters, Rickard's wife was his second cousin, (or first cousin once removed), a Stark herself and her name was Lyarra. So, when Martin was asked about who his wife was, and he replied, "Lady Stark," he was speaking the truth.

And in the distant past, there was a marriage between an Edric Stark, (and ready), his half-NIECE Serena.

So, the Targaryens not the only ones playing at incest. :stillsick:

Here is the link:

http://edelweiss-assets.abovethetreeline.com/RH/supplemental/GRRM_WOIF_SellPacket_spreads-lowres.pdf

Oh my word,look how the plot thickens,i would deduce that is a skeleton in the closet concerning the Starks in deed.There is a lot of similarities between both families,much more than people care to see.

[Alia of the knife]

Oh my word,look how the plot thickens,i would deduce that is a skeleton in the closet concerning the Starks in deed.There is a lot of similarities between both families,much more than people care to see.

Segwaying off another conversation, the Stark incest like the Targaryens and the dragon bond may have had to do with blood purity and warging.

[OnlyOne]

I would have bitten one of the Freys, :devil: and you can bet that if Arya had had to marry one of them, he wouldn't have made it through the night :laugh: . But, I do think that the symbiotic bond, where they are almost one has a lot to do with respect, and the realization that free creatures are what they are.

Many ranchers have to hunt and kill the wolves that feed on their livestock, but many of them don't like doing it, and in some places they have worked with conservationists to find a happy medium.

But, I can't help but think the pits are abusive and may have had an affect on their temperament and mentality. I also think different from the Starks with their direwolves, the dragons were exploited for power.

It would be interesting to see the relationship between a Stark and a dragon. :drool:

Which is why I think the elements of equality, even love are an important aspect of the bond.

But, I do think it was interesting that Tyrion noted that even a dragon could be controlled, but never a wolf.

Clearly both can be controlled. As for Danys ride being orgasmic-you mean after she was a little bit crispy right? But yes, Drogon is clearly her dragon.

[OnlyOne]

I think the direwolves were "sent" for the Stark children, and definitely agree that there is a symbiotic bond, right down to emotional responses. I think the naming is also a foreshadowing and symbolic.

And sure, it is problematic for such animals to roam free just as it today. (A bear made off with a dumpster-THE WHOLE DAMN THING, at a German restaurant in Colorado last year. The owners caught it on a video they set up because they thought they were being pranked.).

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bear+steals+dumpster+youtube&FORM=VIRE5#view=detail&mid=E3663D70F8C1D19065FFE3663D70F8C1D19065FF

:D

I was on vacation one year in North Carolina at the location where "Last of the Mohicans" was filmed, staying on the Indian reservation and I saw a wolf trying to get into a trashcan, but, even under "control," the dragons wreak havoc.

The point is, I think the way the dragons are kept in terms of the pits hints at something a little less than equal, and therefore less "voluntary" than the way the Starks bond with their direwolve where at least, the direwolf also has the benefit of becoming part of Man/Woman.

I speculate that its possible that that may be the way that a Stark ultimately "control" the dragons, even over the Targaryens. I don't know if the warging is in itself "magic," but more psychic, because ultimately magic does not allow for freedom or free will.

Nettles, if she was CotF, may have innately understood that, and that is what Sheep Stealer responded to.

(Of course I also understand the possibility that she may have been dragon seed as well. The other idea is just a thought, but I think Martin who chooses to live in New Mexico as opposed to a pent house in Central Park, or in LA, might be trying to say something about the natural world). :wub:

Using Native American legends as others have pointed out.

[wolfmaid7]

Clearly both can be controlled. As for Danys ride being orgasmic-you mean after she was a little bit crispy right? But yes, Drogon is clearly her dragon.

I don't know control is the right word to use in some of these cases.If we go back to TPATQ we see examples when it came down to finding new riders,the Dragons being forced to choose.With enough force and diligence someone with the right blood can break a Dragon,much like Varymr 6 skins who was a Skinchanger broke the will of the animals he had and took them forcing them to share their skins. Their were clearly some of that going on during the first Dance where Dragon riders forced Dragons to choose instead of allowing them to make that choice themselves. There were few who the dragons chose ,but you could see their relationships were different.

Dany was thought a crucial lesson by her silver,that was learning to trust it,something she will learn with Drogon given time. Forgeting the whip behind was the first step and i don't think she even realizes how huge that was,that she no longer needed the whip.As you say Drogon is hers.

The horn if used successfully,will bamboozle a Dragon into thinking you are worthy for "it" to bear you,if Vic does accomplish that it won't end well for him.

Using Native American legends as others have pointed out.

:cheers: