Dany ,the Dragonlord,and the Dragonbond

[wolfmaid7]

I don't know if Nettles and Leaf are one in the same, but I definitely believe there is a connection.

Given Nettles description,(with a few highborn tweaks), and personality, she reminded me a bit of Arya, at least a street-wise Arya, so I speculate whether she could be the result of a Stark/CotF union as that might also explain her ability with Sheep Stealer.

That would surely be a twist,i still believe Nettles is a Dragonseed,but it would tie both ends of the spectrum nicley. Though the only thing i could see is if Sheepstealer has been hibernating in one of the caverns somewhere.

I guess I missed the part where it's supposed to be figurative. That would explain why nobody else seems to think it's a big deal... :P

The only thing I don't like about the theory of the dragon having been released from the crypts (and overall I would really, really like this to be true b/c it would just be sooo cool to have had a dragon hiding under there for all this time!) is that a dragon has to eat. Summer didn't see a tiny hatchling crawling out of the crypts, so the dragon couldn't have hatched only recently. Who was feeding it all this time? And why didn't Ned ever think about it in his POV ("I must remember to send a raven to Winterfell to remind Catelyn to feed the dragon")... so yeah I would say that's the one weak point.

I guess it could have been sleeping or hibernating somehow, and awoken when the place was burned down. Its been down there so long it was forgotten about, that's why Ned doesn't think about it or tell his children about it.

(and maybe it can only bond with Starks, that's why "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" just in case the dragon wakes up...). Still, I would think someone would have stumbled upon it at some point- it seems unlikely that nobody has set foot in the lower tombs for thousands of years. So I don't know... maybe it really was just a dream, and this is a moot point.

Dido :ninja: :P I don't know to introduce him so late in the game is a touch one to swallow,unless the point is to have eggs.

[Alia of the knife]

That would surely be a twist,i still believe Nettles is a Dragonseed,but it would tie both ends of the spectrum nicley. Though the only thing i could see is if Sheepstealer has been hibernating in one of the caverns somewhere.

Dido :ninja: :P I don't know to introduce him so late in the game is a touch one to swallow,unless the point is to have eggs.

And they were buried under WF where ST was attracted to the hot springs. :D

[MaesterSam]

That would surely be a twist,i still believe Nettles is a Dragonseed,but it would tie both ends of the spectrum nicley. Though the only thing i could see is if Sheepstealer has been hibernating in one of the caverns somewhere.

Dido :ninja: :P I don't know to introduce him so late in the game is a touch one to swallow,unless the point is to have eggs.

I agree, it's a tad late to be like "oh, by the way, 200 years ago the Targaryens lost a dragon and it turns out, it's been hiding in the North the whole time!". (Although they did kind of did do that with BR. For anyone not familiar with Dunk & Egg, that kind of came from out of nowhere). But yes, maybe eggs? I still like the idea of the cave being a dragon's lair, with all those skulls... b/c otherwise I would have to be terrified of the CotF, there really aren't a lot of good explanations for why your home is littered with bones.

[MaesterSam]

And they were buried under WF where ST was attracted to the hot springs. :D

Yes! Wow you have really thought out this theory, I am very impressed! :)

[Alia of the knife]

Yes! Wow you have really thought out this theory, I am very impressed! :)

Weeeelllll, I am sort of kidding,sort of. But the hot springs are an intriguing detail. :)

[wolfmaid7]

I agree, it's a tad late to be like "oh, by the way, 200 years ago the Targaryens lost a dragon and it turns out, it's been hiding in the North the whole time!". (Although they did kind of did do that with BR. For anyone not familiar with Dunk & Egg, that kind of came from out of nowhere). But yes, maybe eggs? I still like the idea of the cave being a dragon's lair, with all those skulls... b/c otherwise I would have to be terrified of the CotF, there really aren't a lot of good explanations for why your home is littered with bones.

It would be crazy if the little green men were feeding it ever so often, but I have ti ask what would be the purpose plot wise for them to have a Dragon.

[Mithras]

If Nettles is Leaf in glamor, I think it is highly possible that their "interesting destination" according to Ran is Hardhome. Else, I think Sheepstealer might go to Ny Sar and live on bone snappers and other stuff which can be found on Rhoyne.

[MaesterSam]

Weeeelllll, I am sort of kidding,sort of. But the hot springs are an intriguing detail. :)

What?!? Nooooo, you can't take it back now!! lol. I agree, a Northern dragon either in the cave OR in Winterfell would be a stretch... and yet, (f)Aegon showed up rather late and unexpectedly, and BR's presence has not been explained at all. Summer (either literally or figuratively) saw a dragon fly over Winterfell, and there has been a lot of foreshadowing that there is something in those crypts, which get warmer as you go further down...

And Bran still needs to "fly" somehow.... which brings us back to the original topic of the dragonbond. IMO, it would be kind of lame if Bran saves the day by skinchanging one of Dany's dragons, especially since there is a lot of evidence that this would require him to have Valyrian ancestors which seems unlikely. (Also it would make BR waaayy too powerful to have foreseen this, as opposed to saying 'you will fly, b/c I have a dragon hidden away for you'). But if the CotF had used Northern/Old God magic to alter the bond while hatching SS's eggs.... who knows?

Or maybe Sheepstealer is a red herring, maybe the hibernating dragon (or eggs) have been sitting there for thousands of years... a time when the continents were connected, and the seasons in balance, so dragons in the North would have been less unusual than they seem now? Between WF and Hardhome, we do have volcanic activity up there...

It would be crazy if the little green men were feeding it ever so often, but I have ti ask what would be the purpose plot wise for them to have a Dragon.

You mean the Crannogmen? Hahaha, or more likely you were being sarcastic. Plotwise, I'm not sure... perhaps it could participate in the 2nd dance of the dragons that we have been promised? Or it could be Bran's (or Jon's?) ride to the Lands of Always Winter, which it sounds like would be extremely hard to get to on foot. Or maybe we'll learn that it was the CotF, not the Maesters, who caused the extinction of the dragons (for their own protection against men), but kept one around as a safeguard so that men could never defeat them in battle again...

A dragon beyond the Wall could help explain why magic there seems to have remained relatively strong (direwolves, wargs/skinchangers, Giants etc only live there, and BR has been alive for way too long), while the Wall blocks it from reaching the rest of Westeros.

Also, as mentioned in Heresy, the Pact likely included the words of the Reed's oath, which ends in "we swear it by ice and fire." Well, if there have never been dragons on Westeros (or Red Priests presumably), why include the Fire at all in the oath? We keep hearing there was once a balance, so the North wasn't always just Ice....

But I completely acknowledge that this is in no way a proven theory, and am willing to let it go and change the topic back to the dragons we know exist, over in Essos. :)

[Alia of the knife]

What?!? Nooooo, you can't take it back now!! lol. I agree, a Northern dragon either in the cave OR in Winterfell would be a stretch... and yet, (f)Aegon showed up rather late and unexpectedly, and BR's presence has not been explained at all. Summer (either literally or figuratively) saw a dragon fly over Winterfell, and there has been a lot of foreshadowing that there is something in those crypts, which get warmer as you go further down...

And Bran still needs to "fly" somehow.... which brings us back to the original topic of the dragonbond. IMO, it would be kind of lame if Bran saves the day by skinchanging one of Dany's dragons, especially since there is a lot of evidence that this would require him to have Valyrian ancestors which seems unlikely. (Also it would make BR waaayy too powerful to have foreseen this, as opposed to saying 'you will fly, b/c I have a dragon hidden away for you'). But if the CotF had used Northern/Old God magic to alter the bond while hatching SS's eggs.... who knows?

Or maybe Sheepstealer is a red herring, maybe the hibernating dragon (or eggs) have been sitting there for thousands of years... a time when the continents were connected, and the seasons in balance, so dragons in the North would have been less unusual than they seem now? Between WF and Hardhome, we do have volcanic activity up there...

:D

You pretty much have articulated my thoughts on the possibility of a fourth dragon.

Whether its the descendant of Sheepstealer, or a dragon unique to Jon and the geography of the North,(not sure if Martin would incorporate as precedent his "Ice Dragon," a childrens book but the area where it is set sounds a lot like the North), but Martins inclusion of the the hot springs is what caught my attention, especially when it is so noted about Danys love of hot baths, Eggs love of the heat etc.

Martin is "god" in this universe, and I think the details he includes are deliberate, so while the Starks might be the cleanest and warmest family in Westeros, :P I think the hot springs are there for something else.

A few details:

1. "Winterfell is a huge castle complex spanning several acres, consisting of two massive walls and a village located just outside called the "winter town".^[3]Winterfell itself has been built around an ancient godswood and over natural hot springs. The water is piped through walls and chambers to heat them, making Winterfell more comfortable than other castles during the harsh northern winter."

1. "The Glass Garden is a greenhouse heated by the hot springs, which turn it into a place of moist warmth. It is used to grow fruits, vegetables and flowers".

1. "The crypts are located deep under the earth, cavernous and bigger than the complex above ground. They are accessed by a twisting stone stair and a huge ironwood door that lies at a slant to the floor. The stair continues below to older levels where the most ancient Kings in the North are entombed."

(A note on the mention of the ironwood door):

“Iron has a long and varied tradition in the mythology and folklore of the world. As human blood smells of the iron which its cells contain, and blood in many traditions is equated with the life-force, so iron and minerals have been considered to be the blood or life-force of the Earth. This relationship is charted further in literature on geomancy, ley lines and songlines.”

Besides containing to the spirit of the dead, it is also used to contain, or ward off other supernatural creatures.

[Eira Seren]

What?!? Nooooo, you can't take it back now!! lol. I agree, a Northern dragon either in the cave OR in Winterfell would be a stretch... and yet, (f)Aegon showed up rather late and unexpectedly, and BR's presence has not been explained at all. Summer (either literally or figuratively) saw a dragon fly over Winterfell, and there has been a lot of foreshadowing that there is something in those crypts, which get warmer as you go further down...

And Bran still needs to "fly" somehow.... which brings us back to the original topic of the dragonbond. IMO, it would be kind of lame if Bran saves the day by skinchanging one of Dany's dragons, especially since there is a lot of evidence that this would require him to have Valyrian ancestors which seems unlikely. (Also it would make BR waaayy too powerful to have foreseen this, as opposed to saying 'you will fly, b/c I have a dragon hidden away for you'). But if the CotF had used Northern/Old God magic to alter the bond while hatching SS's eggs.... who knows?

Or maybe Sheepstealer is a red herring, maybe the hibernating dragon (or eggs) have been sitting there for thousands of years... a time when the continents were connected, and the seasons in balance, so dragons in the North would have been less unusual than they seem now? Between WF and Hardhome, we do have volcanic activity up there...

You mean the Crannogmen? Hahaha, or more likely you were being sarcastic. Plotwise, I'm not sure... perhaps it could participate in the 2nd dance of the dragons that we have been promised? Or it could be Bran's (or Jon's?) ride to the Lands of Always Winter, which it sounds like would be extremely hard to get to on foot. Or maybe we'll learn that it was the CotF, not the Maesters, who caused the extinction of the dragons (for their own protection against men), but kept one around as a safeguard so that men could never defeat them in battle again...

A dragon beyond the Wall could help explain why magic there seems to have remained relatively strong (direwolves, wargs/skinchangers, Giants etc only live there, and BR has been alive for way too long), while the Wall blocks it from reaching the rest of Westeros.

Also, as mentioned in Heresy, the Pact likely included the words of the Reed's oath, which ends in "we swear it by ice and fire." Well, if there have never been dragons on Westeros (or Red Priests presumably), why include the Fire at all in the oath? We keep hearing there was once a balance, so the North wasn't always just Ice....

But I completely acknowledge that this is in no way a proven theory, and am willing to let it go and change the topic back to the dragons we know exist, over in Essos. :)

I agree, this is a nice idea and Winterfell is certainly large enough to house a dragon in a subterranean lair. However, is it not getting out to eat (only the bones in the COTF caves?) Bloodraven and Bran can safely hang out in the caves, and Aegon is in disguise.

It's doubtful that a dragon will be able to be in disguise (my, what large teeth you have!) and it would probably have been noticed if it leaves the caves to eat, especially since there's a war on and would have found plenty of battlefields in neighboring regions to feast upon. Somebody would've seen it snacking on corpses and silent sisters.

[MaesterSam]

:D

You pretty much have articulated my thoughts on the possibility of a fourth dragon.

Whether its the descendant of Sheepstealer, or a dragon unique to Jon and the geography of the North,(not sure if Martin would incorporate as precedent his "Ice Dragon," a childrens book but the area where it is set sounds a lot like the North), but Martins inclusion of the the hot springs is what caught my attention, especially when it is so noted about Danys love of hot baths, Eggs love of the heat etc.

Martin is "god" in this universe, and I think the details he includes are deliberate, so while the Starks might be the cleanest and warmest family in Westeros, :P I think the hot springs are there for something else.

A few details:

1. "Winterfell is a huge castle complex spanning several acres, consisting of two massive walls and a village located just outside called the "winter town".^[3]Winterfell itself has been built around an ancient godswood and over natural hot springs. The water is piped through walls and chambers to heat them, making Winterfell more comfortable than other castles during the harsh northern winter."

1. "The Glass Garden is a greenhouse heated by the hot springs, which turn it into a place of moist warmth. It is used to grow fruits, vegetables and flowers".

1. "The crypts are located deep under the earth, cavernous and bigger than the complex above ground. They are accessed by a twisting stone stair and a huge ironwood door that lies at a slant to the floor. The stair continues below to older levels where the most ancient Kings in the North are entombed."

(A note on the mention of the ironwood door):

“Iron has a long and varied tradition in the mythology and folklore of the world. As human blood smells of the iron which its cells contain, and blood in many traditions is equated with the life-force, so iron and minerals have been considered to be the blood or life-force of the Earth. This relationship is charted further in literature on geomancy, ley lines and songlines.”

Besides containing to the spirit of the dead, it is also used to contain, or ward off other supernatural creatures.

Agreed! Again. :) There is also the demise of Hardhome to think of... sure sounds like it could have been a dragon attack. Maybe the CotF didn't want a large wildling town North of the Wall...? I think the other theory is volcanic activity, but I don't recall any textual evidence of actual volcanoes erupting, or Earthquakes or magma... just that the whole town was burned to ashes, and the fire could be seen as far away as the Wall. And there were no survivors, which also seems odd in the case of a volcano. You would think somebody would get away... it's not like the whole town was suddenly swallowed by the ground. (In other words, I would NOT equate this event with the Doom of Valyria). The town just suddenly burned down one day in a huge fire that came from out of nowhere.

The only other theory I can think of is another botched (or not?) egg hatching attempt... but at this point there is simply no evidence to support it.

I agree, this is a nice idea and Winterfell is certainly large enough to house a dragon in a subterranean lair. However, is it not getting out to eat (only the bones in the COTF caves?) Bloodraven and Bran can safely hang out in the caves, and Aegon is in disguise.

It's doubtful that a dragon will be able to be in disguise (my, what large teeth you have!) and it would probably have been noticed if it leaves the caves to eat, especially since there's a war on and would have found plenty of battlefields in neighboring regions to feast upon. Somebody would've seen it snacking on corpses and silent sisters.

You are completely right, and this was my main problem with the theory, which I otherwise like a lot. How would a grown dragon have stayed hidden for so long? This is a big part of what we've been debating, and I think the answer depends on the location.

If it was in the crypts: it would have had to have been hibernating down there, and only woken up when WF burned down. At which point, Summer (in Bran's POV) does see a dragon in the sky above WF. If this were the case, we should expect to hear of someone encountering it in the near future, early in WoW. Maybe a Northern farmer gets roasted in the Prologue? ;) Or somebody mentions how several homes were found burned down with the inhabitants missing... (There is also the theory of a dragon long ago having hidden eggs in the crypts. I like this idea as well, but am not sure how it would move the plot forward at this point, as it would take these dragons years to grow large enough to matter.)

The other place it could have been hiding is the cave of skulls. I see two possibilities here:

1) the CotF had a dragon once, which lived there and accumulated all those bones, but it has been dead for a long time OR went to WF to hibernate (which is why it hasn't been seen, or needed to eat). It may or may not have left them some eggs, and if it did, they may or may not have been hatched by the Children. IF they did, it is likely that they used Northern magic to do it, which may (or may not) have altered the 'natural' preference other dragons have for Valyrian riders. Thus making this a potential ride for Bran.

2) the dragon has been living in the cave all along, but they keep it (or the babies from possibility 1) locked up, similar to what Dany does with Viserion and Rhaegal. Maybe for similar reasons, they can't quite control it, and/or don't want it being seen. So, they have to hunt and bring food for it, again similar to how Dany has sheep brought to her captive dragons. Bran and co haven't seen it b/c those caves are HUGE and Bran/Hodor hasn't explored them all yet. The CotF would want Bran to complete his training and be sure he is on their side before giving such a powerful warg access to such a powerful animal/weapon.

[wolfmaid7]

Agreed! Again. :) There is also the demise of Hardhome to think of... sure sounds like it could have been a dragon attack. Maybe the CotF didn't want a large wildling town North of the Wall...? I think the other theory is volcanic activity, but I don't recall any textual evidence of actual volcanoes erupting, or Earthquakes or magma... just that the whole town was burned to ashes, and the fire could be seen as far away as the Wall. And there were no survivors, which also seems odd in the case of a volcano. You would think somebody would get away... it's not like the whole town was suddenly swallowed by the ground. (In other words, I would NOT equate this event with the Doom of Valyria). The town just suddenly burned down one day in a huge fire that came from out of nowhere.

The only other theory I can think of is another botched (or not?) egg hatching attempt... but at this point there is simply no evidence to support it.

You are completely right, and this was my main problem with the theory, which I otherwise like a lot. How would a grown dragon have stayed hidden for so long? This is a big part of what we've been debating, and I think the answer depends on the location.

If it was in the crypts: it would have had to have been hibernating down there, and only woken up when WF burned down. At which point, Summer (in Bran's POV) does see a dragon in the sky above WF. If this were the case, we should expect to hear of someone encountering it in the near future, early in WoW. Maybe a Northern farmer gets roasted in the Prologue? ;) Or somebody mentions how several homes were found burned down with the inhabitants missing... (There is also the theory of a dragon long ago having hidden eggs in the crypts. I like this idea as well, but am not sure how it would move the plot forward at this point, as it would take these dragons years to grow large enough to matter.)

The other place it could have been hiding is the cave of skulls. I see two possibilities here:

1) the CotF had a dragon once, which lived there and accumulated all those bones, but it has been dead for a long time OR went to WF to hibernate (which is why it hasn't been seen, or needed to eat). It may or may not have left them some eggs, and if it did, they may or may not have been hatched by the Children. IF they did, it is likely that they used Northern magic to do it, which may (or may not) have altered the 'natural' preference other dragons have for Valyrian riders. Thus making this a potential ride for Bran.

2) the dragon has been living in the cave all along, but they keep it (or the babies from possibility 1) locked up, similar to what Dany does with Viserion and Rhaegal. Maybe for similar reasons, they can't quite control it, and/or don't want it being seen. So, they have to hunt and bring food for it, again similar to how Dany has sheep brought to her captive dragons. Bran and co haven't seen it b/c those caves are HUGE and Bran/Hodor hasn't explored them all yet. The CotF would want Bran to complete his training and be sure he is on their side before giving such a powerful warg access to such a powerful animal/weapon.

Now to go back to the OP and the way that the Dragon's call to their riders.Even as an Egg Drogon began to summon Dany. Now i'll propse something that was brought up here.If Jon is part Targ,what if what's in the crypt is an egg,summoning him. The constant dream that he must go there but is afraid to.He need not ever hatch the egg at all,just it calling to him maybe enough to steer him in the right direction.All these creatures Drirewolves,Dragons the Weirwood trees etc 'sing' to their proxies as a way to call them to you.Possible i think so.

[MaesterSam]

Now to go back to the OP and the way that the Dragon's call to their riders.Even as an Egg Drogon began to summon Dany. Now i'll propse something that was brought up here.If Jon is part Targ,what if what's in the crypt is an egg,summoning him. The constant dream that he must go there but is afraid to.He need not ever hatch the egg at all,just it calling to him maybe enough to steer him in the right direction.All these creatures Drirewolves,Dragons the Weirwood trees etc 'sing' to their proxies as a way to call them to you.Possible i think so.

Yes! Way to bring our little diversion full circle, back to the OP :) I like this idea. Especially b/c in Jon's dreams, the kings in the crypts keep telling him he is not a Stark, and this is not his place. It is emphasized over and over, and he agrees with them that he doesn't belong there. And yet he feels he has to go... b/c there is "something' drawing him to the crypts. Something not related to his Stark heritage.

The dragon dreams are missing so far, but that could be due to his link to Ghost overshadowing his other potential bonded animal... and/or the fact that the dragon/eggs are dormant until ... well, when does he start having the crypt dreams? I can't remember exactly, but it would be awesome if it wasn't until after WF burned.

[Alia of the knife]

Now to go back to the OP and the way that the Dragon's call to their riders.Even as an Egg Drogon began to summon Dany. Now i'll propse something that was brought up here.If Jon is part Targ,what if what's in the crypt is an egg,summoning him. The constant dream that he must go there but is afraid to.He need not ever hatch the egg at all,just it calling to him maybe enough to steer him in the right direction.All these creatures Drirewolves,Dragons the Weirwood trees etc 'sing' to their proxies as a way to call them to you.Possible i think so.

I definitely believe the crypts are significant, and I also love the idea that something is summoning him there.

Many think the dead Starks are telling Jon he doesn't belong is a nod to Jons status as a "bastard," and who his father really is, but they could also be telling him his destiny lay elsewhere and that it is not in Winterfell.

Agreed! Again. :) There is also the demise of Hardhome to think of... sure sounds like it could have been a dragon attack. Maybe the CotF didn't want a large wildling town North of the Wall...? I think the other theory is volcanic activity, but I don't recall any textual evidence of actual volcanoes erupting, or Earthquakes or magma... just that the whole town was burned to ashes, and the fire could be seen as far away as the Wall. And there were no survivors, which also seems odd in the case of a volcano. You would think somebody would get away... it's not like the whole town was suddenly swallowed by the ground. (In other words, I would NOT equate this event with the Doom of Valyria). The town just suddenly burned down one day in a huge fire that came from out of nowhere.

The only other theory I can think of is another botched (or not?) egg hatching attempt... but at this point there is simply no evidence to support it.

You are completely right, and this was my main problem with the theory, which I otherwise like a lot. How would a grown dragon have stayed hidden for so long? This is a big part of what we've been debating, and I think the answer depends on the location.

If it was in the crypts: it would have had to have been hibernating down there, and only woken up when WF burned down. At which point, Summer (in Bran's POV) does see a dragon in the sky above WF. If this were the case, we should expect to hear of someone encountering it in the near future, early in WoW. Maybe a Northern farmer gets roasted in the Prologue? ;) Or somebody mentions how several homes were found burned down with the inhabitants missing... (There is also the theory of a dragon long ago having hidden eggs in the crypts. I like this idea as well, but am not sure how it would move the plot forward at this point, as it would take these dragons years to grow large enough to matter.)

The other place it could have been hiding is the cave of skulls. I see two possibilities here:

1) the CotF had a dragon once, which lived there and accumulated all those bones, but it has been dead for a long time OR went to WF to hibernate (which is why it hasn't been seen, or needed to eat). It may or may not have left them some eggs, and if it did, they may or may not have been hatched by the Children. IF they did, it is likely that they used Northern magic to do it, which may (or may not) have altered the 'natural' preference other dragons have for Valyrian riders. Thus making this a potential ride for Bran.

2) the dragon has been living in the cave all along, but they keep it (or the babies from possibility 1) locked up, similar to what Dany does with Viserion and Rhaegal. Maybe for similar reasons, they can't quite control it, and/or don't want it being seen. So, they have to hunt and bring food for it, again similar to how Dany has sheep brought to her captive dragons. Bran and co haven't seen it b/c those caves are HUGE and Bran/Hodor hasn't explored them all yet. The CotF would want Bran to complete his training and be sure he is on their side before giving such a powerful warg access to such a powerful animal/weapon.

Hibernation, could be the answer as well, and maybe the two people who would keep it a secret, even from the current Starks, are Nan and Hodar.

It was said it looked like a serpent with wings, so more sleek and not quite as big as Danys dragons.

[MaesterSam]

I definitely believe the crypts are significant, and I also love the idea that something is summoning him there.

Many think the dead Starks are telling Jon he doesn't belong is a nod to Jons status as a "bastard," and who his father really is, but they could also be telling him his destiny lay elsewhere and that it is not in Winterfell.

Hibernation, could be the answer as well, and maybe the two people who would keep it a secret, even from the current Starks, are Nan and Hodar.

It was said it looked like a serpent with wings, so more sleek and not quite as big as Danys dragons.

Do we know if old Nan is still alive? If so, she may come forward once Sansa is revealed to be alive (assuming that wedding really happens, which seems like a long shot). Or maybe Bran will find out one of these days while warging Hodor. (Off topic, but interesting that he doesn't seem to have access to Hodor's memories- or at least not that we are aware of. Whereas Bran and Jon both seem to share memories with their wolves, such as when the wolves, while being warged, have memories of each other when they were all still together. Maybe it's b/c Hodor "hides" inside his mind when Bran skinchanges into him, whereas the wolves share their minds and bodies willingly?)

It would be interesting if this dragon really looked different from the standard Valyrian version that Dany has. Especially since the Ironborn also have that legend of Nagga, the sea dragon. Maybe a long time ago, dragons were common in Westeros, and looked a little different based on where they lived - almost like sub-species of dragons, adapted to different habitats.

[Alia of the knife]

Do we know if old Nan is still alive? If so, she may come forward once Sansa is revealed to be alive (assuming that wedding really happens, which seems like a long shot). Or maybe Bran will find out one of these days while warging Hodor. (Off topic, but interesting that he doesn't seem to have access to Hodor's memories- or at least not that we are aware of. Whereas Bran and Jon both seem to share memories with their wolves, such as when the wolves, while being warged, have memories of each other when they were all still together. Maybe it's b/c Hodor "hides" inside his mind when Bran skinchanges into him, whereas the wolves share their minds and bodies willingly?)

It would be interesting if this dragon really looked different from the standard Valyrian version that Dany has. Especially since the Ironborn also have that legend of Nagga, the sea dragon. Maybe a long time ago, dragons were common in Westeros, and looked a little different based on where they lived - almost like sub-species of dragons, adapted to different habitats.

I think it is unknown, but I also think that there is a lot more to Nan than meets the eye. If she is the young woman in Brans vision seen kissing Dunk, then she is really, REALLY old.

In other theories she has been compared to the Morigan, an Irish goddess with several indenities:

"The Morrígan ("phantom queen") or Mórrígan ("great queen"), also written as Morrígu or in the plural as Morrígna, and spelt Morríghan or Mór-ríoghain in Modern Irish, is a figure from Irish mythology who appears to have been considered a goddess, although she is not explicitly referred to as such in the texts.

The Morrígan is a goddess of battle, strife, and sovereignty. She sometimes appears in the form of a crow, flying above the warriors, and in the Ulster cycle she also takes the forms of an eel, a wolf and a cow. She is generally considered a war deity comparable with the Germanic Valkyries, although her association with a cow may also suggest a role connected with wealth and the land.

She is often depicted as a trio of goddesses, all sisters,^[1][2][3] although membership of the triad varies; the most common combinations are Badb, Macha and Nemain,^[4] or Badb, Macha and Anand; Anand is also given as an alternate name for Morrigu.^[5] Other accounts name Fea, and others."

As for the dragons shapes, didn't they say in old Valarya when the ancestors of the FM were their slaves, that there were fire worms where they mined? If so, adaptation to their particular climates is not outside the realm of possibility, especally as it seems the Targaryens did just that by stunting their growth, keeping them in pits.

http://georgerrmartin.com/gallery/art/icedragon05.jpg

:cool4:

[MaesterSam]

I think it is unknown, but I also think that there is a lot more to Nan than meets the eye. If she is the young woman in Brans vision seen kissing Dunk, then she is really, REALLY old.

In other theories she has been compared to the Morigan, an Irish goddess with several indenities:

"The Morrígan ("phantom queen") or Mórrígan ("great queen"), also written as Morrígu or in the plural as Morrígna, and spelt Morríghan or Mór-ríoghain in Modern Irish, is a figure from Irish mythology who appears to have been considered a goddess, although she is not explicitly referred to as such in the texts.

The Morrígan is a goddess of battle, strife, and sovereignty. She sometimes appears in the form of a crow, flying above the warriors, and in the Ulster cycle she also takes the forms of an eel, a wolf and a cow. She is generally considered a war deity comparable with the Germanic Valkyries, although her association with a cow may also suggest a role connected with wealth and the land.

She is often depicted as a trio of goddesses, all sisters,^[1][2][3] although membership of the triad varies; the most common combinations are Badb, Macha and Nemain,^[4] or Badb, Macha and Anand; Anand is also given as an alternate name for Morrigu.^[5] Other accounts name Fea, and others."

As for the dragons shapes, didn't they say in old Valarya when the ancestors of the FM were their slaves, that there were fire worms where they mined? If so, adaptation to their particular climates is not outside the realm of possibility, especally as it seems the Targaryens did just that by stunting their growth, keeping them in pits.

http://georgerrmartin.com/gallery/art/icedragon05.jpg

:cool4:

I'm not well versed in mythology, but that does sound like an interesting connection.

I forgot about the fire worms and stunted dragons... so then it makes sense that the dragon living mostly in caves and tunnels would be long and skinny, like a serpent!

[Alia of the knife]

I forgot about the fire worms and stunted dragons... so then it makes sense that the dragon living mostly in caves and tunnels would be long and skinny, like a serpent!

Exactly :drool:

[wolfmaid7]

Exactly :drool:

That is true, it could be serpentine but also the caverns of the COTF are huge, so the Dragon could be huge but more apt for low light.

[Alia of the knife]

That is true, it could be serpentine but also the caverns of the COTF are huge, so the Dragon could be huge but more apt for low light.

I think that is true also, but I also think there are so many unknowns in the North regarding, blood magic, (i.e., human sacrifice), and the current Starks are perhaps at a disadvantage due to their "southeronization," forgetting the old ways, which makes Brans role essential.

I've always viewed the Starks,(the olds ones at least), as being somewhat closer to nature, or the natural as in the traditions of both Native Americans and Druids,(especially the parallels to reincarnation and metamorphosis regarding their beliefs), so it would be interesting to know if they didn't have some interaction with the CotF, (i.e.,begetting Nettles), because I actually see the dragons as more creatures of the natural world and not to be enslaved or subjugated and perhaps the UNwillingness on the part of someone wanting to control them, but let them "be" is what "controls" them. :dunno: