Newstar Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 As GRRM is closely involved with the production of the show, and feeds D&D important info from future books, I have wondered since Season 1 whether anything could be divined from these snippets.Just going by interviews with D&D, it sounds like GRRM lacks any veto power over what does or what doesn't go into the show. It sounds like he complains about certain show/book changes--apparently the lack of helmets during Blackwater was a big deal--and takes issue with characters getting killed off in or left out of the TV series who show up later in the books, but that D&D just sort of go ahead and do what they want. D&D have alluded more than once to GRRM fretting about the "butterfly effect" (one seemingly minor change causing huge changes to several plotlines), but it doesn't sound as if they pay the fretting much mind or let that guide how they tell their story, LOL. GRRM writes his episode per season, but he's pretty much just along for the ride when it comes to book/show changes. Heck, even in episodes written by GRRM, he incorporates elements of "show" canon (Sansa's doll, Shae being kind and caring, etc. etc.).We do have confirmation that D&D know the end of the story, which I'm guessing means that they know what happens to Westeros in a general sense, the dragons, the Others, the "core" characters (Starks/Lannisters/Dany), and what the outcome is of the fight for the throne. I don't think they got a list with GRRM detailing the fate of each and every one of the hundreds of characters in the books. This is probably why when they left out this minor character or that minor character and GRRM complained about it because of something in Book 6, D&D weren't doing it to mess with him: they did it because they didn't know.So it's not GRRM's knowledge/involvement with the show that's of interest: it's the idea that D&D know the outcome of the story (in broad strokes) and they're the ones writing the bulk of the episodes (seven in Season 3). That's the important point. It's kind of funny, actually, because viewers are going through the GRRM-written episodes with a fine-toothed comb to come up with clues for how the series ends, while at least six episodes are written every season--and the series is plotted--by two guys who actually know how the books end.If you're looking for hints about the outcome of the series/fates of the main characters, I, for one, would pay a lot of attention to interviews with D&D where they talk about the main characters. They did an interview recently with Andy Greenwald where David Benioff, I think, said something along the lines of "In any other series, Arya wouldn't die, but in this series, Arya could die." I don't think it was an intentional spoiler or a coy hint or anything like that, but why would he without even thinking about it choose Arya as a character to mention as one who could supposedly die, just off the top of his head? If it were someone who didn't know the ending, that would be one thing, but coming as an offhand comment from someone who knows the ending, well...With the idea that D&D know the outcome of the series (at least in broad strokes), the thing that really made me sit up and pay attention was the HOTU vision sequence. I do also look at things that are left out or changed substantially versus things that wind up being kept with an eye to possible outcomes for the series, although you can drive yourself crazy wondering about the significance of something that may have been dictated by a book/show transition rather than knowledge as to the outcome of the story and again, I don't think D&D know what happens to every single character/plotline.I definitely agree that the show has poured gasoline on the Dany/Jon shipping flames, hahahaha. There was even a Buzzfeed article when the Entertainment Weekly photoshoot promotional photos of Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke in costume as Jon and Dany came out, saying they looked like engagement photos. (And let's be real, they totally did.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin1989 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Well we have to have faith, after season 4 many arcs have been closed, new once open. So some changes doesn't matter because they closing next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Speaking of Dany/Jon parallels, are there a lot of them in the books too? Jon has chapters that show the threat of Ice, and Dany's show the threat of Fire. What in the text do they have in common that's probably intentional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin1989 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Speaking of Dany/Jon parallels, are there a lot of them in the books too? Jon has chapters that show the threat of Ice, and Dany's show the threat of Fire. What in the text do they have in common that's probably intentional?Strange question, you're name reveals that you read the books, so why this question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Wun Wun Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Speaking of Dany/Jon parallels, are there a lot of them in the books too? Jon has chapters that show the threat of Ice, and Dany's show the threat of Fire. What in the text do they have in common that's probably intentional?This thread covers a lot of the parallel's (and difference's) between them:An analysis of the parallels between Jon and DanyStrange question, you're name reveals that you read the books, so why this question?Maybe he read the books but just didn't notice any parallels himself and was wondering if others did? There's lots of things I see people point out on here that I didn't notice myself. GRRM is a very subtle writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiola Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Strange question, you're name reveals that you read the books, so why this question?I read and re-read the books and there's tons of stuff I missed. Why your question?In regard to the original topic, I pay a lot of attention to the show changes, but I'm shit when it comes to thinking about what they could mean. When you realize that every shot in every scene is there for a reason, and the wording of every sentence in the novels as well, it makes you crazy wondering what is foreshadowing and what isn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Strange question, you're name reveals that you read the books, so why this question?because...Maybe he read the books but just didn't notice any parallels himself and was wondering if others did? There's lots of things I see people point out on here that I didn't notice myself. GRRM is a very subtle writer.^ That's why. For instance, I didn't really notice until a reread that one of the first characters mentioned in the first chapter of GoT was Mance Raydar. Bran thinks about him. Or that the Doom of Valyria and the Unsullied are mentioned in Dany's first chapter. Also of note, Viserys says "the dragon remembers..." I find this very similar to the North remembers.And before coming of the forums, I never even thought that Jon and Dany could potentially mix their paths. That's still up in the air, but many talk about it.but that's all very off topic...Thanks for the link, though, Ser Wun Wun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin1989 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 because...^ That's why. For instance, I didn't really notice until a reread that one of the first characters mentioned in the first chapter of GoT was Mance Raydar. Bran thinks about him. Or that the Doom of Valyria and the Unsullied are mentioned in Dany's first chapter. Also of note, Viserys says "the dragon remembers..." I find this very similar to the North remembers.And before coming of the forums, I never even thought that Jon and Dany could potentially mix their paths. That's still up in the air, but many talk about it.but that's all very off topic...Thanks for the link, though, Ser Wun Wun!Thx, was just wondering ^^. Just thought, the asoiaf wiki can give you the answer if you read the books ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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