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Which position hold more power? Hand or queen?


WardenOfTheNorth

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I'm honestly not sure but I think Hand is. They hold a seat on the council and speak with the kings voice.

Ain't y'all learned nuthin' :P ;)? Power is where the folks who get things done believe it is. Depends on the Hand, the King and the Queen. Whoever actually has those who get things done under his/her thumb actually runs the Kingdom. A strong Hand over a weak King can run the kingdom in practice (a weak King too beholden to the Hand's House might be little more than a puppet). A strong, scheming Queen could have the Small Council taking orders from her: With a weak or clueless Hand and/or King, half the game is won for her already. A strong King probably can choose a loyal Hand who will run things according to his own agenda, but that's far, really far, from a given.

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Food for thought: Does a constitution actually prevent those who have those who get things done under their thumb from ruling defacto?

Modern people seem to believe in the rule of law in the same way feudal yokels believed in the divine right of kings. It's all always a farce, power has always and will always reside where them who get things done believe it does. That's the brilliance of Varys's political insight.

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You two have given me a brilliant mental image! I'm now imagining Visenya and Rhaenys complaining to Aegon about things.

Visenya - "I told you two months ago to conquer Dorne. Have you done it? I told you I wanted Dorne!"

Aegon I - "Yes dear"

IIRC, Martin has said that Aegon wasn't interested in administration, and delegated a great deal of his power to Visenya and Rhaenys. And, they would have had enormous prestige in any case, as dragon-riders, and co-conquerors of Westeros.

In practice, I should think that the Queen, and the Hand, have as much power and influence as the King gives to them. And, that in turn would depend on the personalities and abilities of the three individuals concerned,

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I'm honestly not sure but I think Hand is. They hold a seat on the council and speak with the kings voice.

Basically yes, though not every king is the same and not every hand is the same. Bloodraven ruled the kingdoms in all but name for a long while until a king that didn't like him threw him into the dungeon.

Aegon Targaryen the first of his name let his two sisters rule the kingdom and only "appeared" when necessary. Good Queen Alysanne got her husband to abolish "first night" and there's no doubt that Cersei tried to rule through Robert, Joffrey etc.

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Definitely depends on who is the hand and who is the queen and I suppose the king matters a great deal also. We forget the entire series wouldve ended in the first book if Ned did what needed to be done instead of the "right thing"

Welcome to the forms :cheers:

And I'd say the hand has more power. All of Cersei's power through Joffery comes from her being her Regent and we see while Robert is alive she doesn't have too much power. But as it is said before it all depends on those involved.

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there is no constitution written. so it could be anyone.

Maybe. Then again, during AFFC, in yet another stroke of brilliance, Cersei decides to appoint Orton Merryweather as Hand.

“We shall have need of a new lord treasurer. If the Vale were not so unsettled, I would bring back Petyr Baelish, but... I am minded to try Ser Harys in the office. He can do no worse than Gyles, and at least he does not cough.”

“Ser Harys is the King’s Hand,” said Taena.

Ser Harys is a hostage, and feeble even at that. “It is time that Tommen had a more forceful Hand.”

Lord Orton lifted his gaze from his wine cup. “Forceful. To be sure.” He hesitated. “Who... ?”

“You, my lord. It is in your blood. Your grandsire took my own father’s place as Hand to Aerys.” Replacing Tywin Lannister with Owen Merryweather had proved to be akin to replacing a destrier with a donkey, to be sure, but Owen had been an old done man when Aerys raised him, amiable if ineffectual. His grandson was younger, and... Well, he has a strong wife. It was a pity Taena could not serve as Hand. She was thrice the man her husband was, and far more amusing. She was also Myrish-born and female, however, so Orton must needs suffice.

While in truth, she would have actually favoured Taena for the role, if she could; under the presumption that her thought process is to be relied upon. Nevertheless, it would seem that even if there is no official decree forbidding women assuming the role of Hand, based on what Cersei believes, it would have at the very least, seemingly been frowned upon. But, granted, since it is Cersei thinking in the first place, I have my doubts.

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