Who deserves the Iron Throne the most

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Stannis.

[Rickeen Stark]

Stannis or Aegon.

[bc80020]

it is irrelevant.

it is like saying Ned and Gregor are alike! because Gregor had a 6 feet long sword which he used to use it to chop off people's head and Ned had a longsword (which admittedly was shorter! ) and use to do a same thing to the deserters of NW. but we know that Gregor used to kill innocents while all those Ned executed were deserters and deserved to die.

it is all about law and justice.

"anyway, rather than discuss aerys too much, i merely wanted to point out how many people see stannis' act of burning people in a similar light as aerys. that's all."

I respectfully disagree with those people.

Ned gave them a quick clean death

[bc80020]

Aerys burned innocent people alive, not just traitors. Afterwards he would get horny and go rape his wife. Yeah, not comparable to Stannis at all, since he has proof of mens treason, he doesn't just burn for no reason. As well you can count the number of men he has burned on one hand.

Like that innocent child he was gonna burn until davos saved him

[bc80020]

the difference is Aerys was mad and paranoid and he killed innocent people we and almost all westerosi know that they were innocent . but Stannis kills criminals and traitors. .

he may not sitting on the iron throne right now but he is the rightful king , again we as the readers know that.

by the way most of those he executed like Alester and those 4 soldiers were his men who had sworn fealty to him thus accepted him as their king.

again , it is all about justice. as long as a king acts justly he is right.

Like the child he was going to burn

[Fat Mac]

Like that innocent child he was gonna burn until davos saved him

No one knows what Stannis was ultimately going to do with Edric. He was heavily considering burning him, but he had severe reservations. We'll never know what Stannis was going to do, since Davos smuggled Edric away. It's not as if Stannis had already decided, and just hadn't done it yet. He was still weighing his options when Davos intervened.

[TheCasualObserver]

By Machiavelli's standards, I might give it to Dany. Why Dany? The most important role of a monarch is maintaining a monopoly on violence, thereby ensuring that the status quo can keep order. Her dragons are the ultimate weapons of ASOIAF which makes her the best candidate for maintaining that monopoly.

However, Dany's status as a Targ is problematic - Monarch's must also ensure successions so as to avoid civil war (Robert had no trueborn children and look what happened!) Even if Dany could start having children again, they still might carry the Targaryen madness. Even if they didn't, the incestuous practices of the Targs might still continue and fifty years later we could have another Aerys.

Tywin may seem Machiavellian and therefore worthy of the throne but he was also extremely self serving. Additionally, the protection of the populace (a good Monarch's primary concern after ensuring he has an heir) was never Tywin's concern and Machiavelli wouldn't have approved of his selfish, hypocritical actions during the WO5Ks.. His failure to properly manage his own family is also a deal breaker - treating Cersei as a brood mare, putting all his expectations on Jaime and flat out hating Tyrion showed a distinct lack of long term thinking. Tywin might have been a great strategical mind but he clearly failed to look past his own mortality and devote care and attention to his children. Henry II, one of Enlgand's best early Kings created an Angevin Empire out of parts of Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. He even controlled more of France than the French King.His failure was, like Tywin, not properly paying attention to his children. When he did, he found himself at war with his sons and his Empire completely collapsed, just like our infamous Lord of Lannister. So no, not Tywin either.

Stannis might be closer to a good answer, but there's still too many variables surrounding him. If Melisandre was never an influence in his life and instead his chief Councillors were Cressen and Davos, Stannis might well be a near perfect candidate with his strong sense of justice, understanding that to rule the realm he must save it and progressive attitudes towards commoners. (Preferring actual competence to nobility as shown when he made Davos his hand) Unfortunately Mel is an influence in Stannis' life and persuades him to change religion for personal gain (although for slightly worthier reasons that Henry VIII) and burn people with impunity. Only people who defy him true, but it's still an unpleasant way to die to say the least and distances him from the killing where Eddard Stark was wise enough to keep it up close and personal, ensuring the execution is absolutely necessary. Shireen is an underdeveloped character, so I can't say much for Stannis' ability to create a stable line of rulers.

Machiavellian politics aside, who deserves to rule is a tricky question. It's often said that the best leaders are those who do not want power at all, so I'm giving it to the only character in the series who has turned away from absolute power when it was offered; Maester Aemon. He's old, wise, modest, humble, hugely educated, sympathetic to people who need help and incredibly patient (just read his comments on the trials he went through when he was tempted to leave the wall) All hail King Aemon, the King the people should have had.

EDIT:

On the subject of Stannis burning Edric I'll say this - he couldn't because Davos stopped him. And Davos could stop him because unlike someone like Tywin, he'd placed men about him who would give him sound advice and prevent him from doing the wrong thing. The greater evil was averted thanks to Stannis appointing the right man for the job: Davos' mercy becomes Stannis' mercy.

[bc80020]

After visiting the Wall and the NW would it be out of line to say Stannis burns the men in order to prevent them from coming back from the dead? I know he's mainly doing for the religion, but I'm arguing that burning will become more prevalent as the cold winds rise. It should no longer be looked upon by anyone in Westeros as a from of torture, as they are pretty much guaranteed peace in the afterlife..

that where it he would behead them first burning to death is a creul way to go

[bc80020]

No one knows what Stannis was ultimately going to do with Edric. He was heavily considering burning him, but he had severe reservations. We'll never know what Stannis was going to do, since Davos smuggled Edric away. It's not as if Stannis had already decided, and just hadn't done it yet. He was still weighing his options when Davos intervened.

even considering it was fucked up

[Staenerys Stargaryen]

I love how so many people say Stannis is the rightful king like it matters... Don't get me wrong I like Stannis and support his claim because he was Robert's heir but until he conquers Kings Landing it will only be a claim. Rhaegar was supposed to be the rightful king after the mad king and we all know what happened there. Whoever can take the throne deserves the throne. Robert's rebellion pretty much permanently over ruled the law of succession. And the Lannisters are currently proving that by throwing incest babies one after the other on the throne.

[Lord Voldemort's Toes]

It was my understanding from the reading that Stannis was/continues to be in it for himself. He cynically feeds people under dubious circumstances to Red Rahloo - not because he believes in the religion - but because he believes from experience that it will be effective for his campaign. For that alone I see him as willing to forego principle in favor if efficacy. There's also his questionable behavior at the wall. He's more or less demanding NW partiality, and he thinks he's entitled to act this way because he rode in and defeated the wildlings. And then he immediately looks to gathering northern support for himself, not how he can be of further help to the realm against the Others. I think it's apparent that he wants the IT, and he wants it bad.

Now, I like Stannis because of his determination. It's really remarkable...his most admirable trait. But I'm not going to pretend that he's the most selfless, most just, and most reasonable IT contender left. He's not. He's ruthless like the rest of them.

[HMR]

Jon Targaryen, First of His Name.

[lulu_pix]

Dany, she doesnt deserve it, it is hers by right!

[Faithmemory]

No good man would want to sit on the Iron Throne.

Someone who doesn't want it.

But I think, this may happen.

[Jankmaster]

Stannis I think because he's saving the realm before trying to all out get the throne. I mean that whole thing with the Night's Watch and the Wildings really put him up there to me. The Targaryens seem like too big of a gamble to back anymore. What with the whole madness possibility and all that.

House Baratheon for the Throne! "Ours is the Fury!" It actually sounds like something unlike just "Fire and Blood."