Do you believe that Loras was actually wounded?

[FoolishOwl]

My theory is that, over the course of A Dance With Dragons, the Tyrells successfully built up support at court and isolated Cersei, all without ever actually exposing themselves as conspiring. Since Cersei was, more and more obviously, acting the part of the classic paranoid tyrant who destroys all her most trusted lieutenants, eventually even the sycophants she put on the small council could see they were in danger. A critical moment was when Cersei refused to send the new fleet to defend the Arbor; now even the small council would talk among themselves about how to work around Cersei. I believe Margaery was genuinely shocked that Cersei ordered Ser Loras to assault Dragonstone; this was a famously impregnable fortress, but safely enveloped and certain to fall to the siege eventually, and the only reason to order Ser Loras to assault it was to send him to certain death. However, by this point, almost everyone at court was prepared to simply refuse Cersei's orders and lie to her that they had been carried out. Outside of court, there was no pretense that Ser Loras was sent to Dragonstone, which was why Cersei's jailors were puzzled at Cersei's asking about him.

[Iona]

I believe Margaery was genuinely shocked that Cersei ordered Ser Loras to assault Dragonstone; this was a famously impregnable fortress, but safely enveloped and certain to fall to the siege eventually, and the only reason to order Ser Loras to assault it was to send him to certain death.

But Cersei never gave an order. Loras volunteered, oh, ever so boldly.

[Lummel]

Do you really believe that after all we have seen?

Well the only person we've seen to stick by their family and act in its interests while in the kingsguard is Jaime Lannister so why not?

I believe that the idea that Loras isn't wounded is thin. One could argue that the Tyrells are the friends in the Reach of the Golden Company or that Loras got wind (somehow) of the coming of Aegon and aimed to abscond to join him - that at least would be an act of value that only Loras could perform for the Tyrells.

However I'm more inclined to believe that Loras was severely wounded in an attempt to commit suicide by siege breaking. Loras was severely disturbed by the death of Renly and there is no sign that he has really got over that.

[Mithras]

Well the only person we've seen to stick by their family and act in its interests while in the kingsguard is Jaime Lannister so why not?

I believe that the idea that Loras isn't wounded is thin. One could argue that the Tyrells are the friends in the Reach of the Golden Company or that Loras got wind (somehow) of the coming of Aegon and aimed to abscond to join him - that at least would be an act of value that only Loras could perform for the Tyrells.

However I'm more inclined to believe that Loras was severely wounded in an attempt to commit suicide by siege breaking. Loras was severely disturbed by the death of Renly and there is no sign that he has really got over that.

Even so, Jaime himself noted that Loras is his younger version. And there is a great corruption in everywhere. Loras does not strike us as a true knight.

Who else reported to Cersei that Loras is severely wounded other than Aurane Waters, who eventually stole Cersei's ships and declared himself as a pirate king? Why is Loras's health never been talked about in the council meeting at the Epilogue of ADwD? Should not Kevan ask about the health of Loras to Mace just to show some courtesy at least? And why did Mace not show any sign of grief that he would most likely lose his precious son in that meeting?

[Light a wight tonight]

But Cersei never gave an order. Loras volunteered, oh, ever so boldly.

He does things like that. He was quite miffed when Ned passed him over and chose Beric Dondarrion to arrest Gregor for his depredations in the Riverlands.

[Light a wight tonight]

Nah, there is legitimate reasons for her to distrust Marg even with just the knowledge she has.

They went from Renly to Joff to Tommen so quickly.

Cersei is predisposed to distrust Magaery. After all, Marg is the younger, more beautiful queen of Maggy's prophecy, at least in Cersie's mind.

[Lummel]

Even so, Jaime himself noted that Loras is his younger version. And there is a great corruption in everywhere. Loras does not strike us as a true knight.

Who else reported to Cersei that Loras is severely wounded other than Aurane Waters, who eventually stole Cersei's ships and declared himself as a pirate king? Why is Loras's health never been talked about in the council meeting at the Epilogue of ADwD? Should not Kevan ask about the health of Loras to Mace just to show some courtesy at least? And why did Mace not show any sign of grief that he would most likely lose his precious son in that meeting?

We don't know enough about Mace or Kevan to have a grasp on what would be normal or abnormal behaviour for them and since Aurane Waters sets himself up as a pirate king it rather suggests that what ever he is, he isn't in league with the tyrells.

[Mithras]

We don't know enough about Mace or Kevan to have a grasp on what would be normal or abnormal behaviour for them and since Aurane Waters sets himself up as a pirate king it rather suggests that what ever he is, he isn't in league with the tyrells.

Or it means that he betrayed the Tyrells just like he betrayed Cersei too. He originally declared for Stannis after all.

[BericDondarrion]

So let me get this straight, people think Loras found something on Dragonstone in the month or so he was there that somehow Stannis never found in the 15+ years he was Lord of Dragonstone.....riiiight.

If there was anything of value there Stannis would have found it and used it to pay Salla Saan/hire more sellswords.

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

So let me get this straight, people think Loras found something on Dragonstone in the month or so he was there that somehow Stannis never found in the 15+ years he was Lord of Dragonstone.....riiiight.

Loras has gaydar, thus he is able to search more effectively and spot stuff which Stannis could never detect the presence of.

:)

[mb2518]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[shiola]

maybe he got hurt a bit but i don't know that he's out of commission. i haven't really thought about the logistics of it though-- as far as how easy or difficult it would be to keep such a thing secret.

[CelticKevin]

I don't think Lora's was grievously wounded, but may very well have taken some lesser wounds. It would be very GRRM-like for Loras to receive an injury that may have affected his pretty boy face. Maybe just a little bit of boiling oil upside the head, rather than a full cauldron. I suspect there is some element of truth to his injury, but it is greatly overblown much to Tyrell advantage.

I am one of those of the opinion that Loras is out of harms way, so that he is not called upon by Cersei as a possible defender. And I doubt he is idle, but is actively doing some important task for Highgarden.

He'll show up in a jiffy if Margery needs him... Else-wise, Loras is just waiting in the wings for Cersei to come to an end...

[Mithras]

So let me get this straight, people think Loras found something on Dragonstone in the month or so he was there that somehow Stannis never found in the 15+ years he was Lord of Dragonstone.....riiiight.

If there was anything of value there Stannis would have found it and used it to pay Salla Saan/hire more sellswords.

I dont think they found anything on Dragonstone. The whole point of Loras's rush was to relieve the Redwyne fleet so that they can return to kick the ironborn out of the Reach. Normally Loras should be back to KL once Dragonstone has fallen. Now that Cersei believes he is injured, Loras is free return with the Rewwyne fleet and fight the ironborn. By the time the ronborn are defeated, they can work out something to cover this lie. This is very simple.