Do you believe that Loras was actually wounded?

[jon stark I]

It seems like a game.The way they defined Loras's wounds even Gregor can't manage to continue fighting and he later searches the entire castle wtih those injuries that is illogical.I think they were planning to use this as a plot to see the true colors of Cersei.Now we know Blue Bard was a servant of Martells so they would have noticed when he disappeared and reappeared as a tortured man.Martells now saw the true colors of Cersei and they know what Cersei is capable of.I think Maester Pycell was telling the truth about the moontea but it was aplot too Margeary intentionally took moontea and she knew Pycell would tell Cersei there is noo reason for her to take moontea from a well known Lannister supporter.Cersei will be shocked when they uncover that Margeary is still a virgin that will damage Cerseis view more.

[Fire Eater]

By the end of ADwD, Aegon, Jon Connington and the GC have landed and taken most of the Stormlands. Storms End has falled by the Arianna II chapted revealed for TWoW. For a house that is itself generally a Targaryen loyalist, the arrival and success of a Targaryen near the Reach, allied to Euron's raids, changes their situation fundamentally. They can't afford to focus their attention and armies north if the Reach is under threat from east and west, and cann't afford to prop up the Lannisters if a better option is available.

Does nobody else wonder whether Varys is advising the Tyrells in KL? Tyrell support, allied to Dorne, the GC, and what remains of the Stormlands, would almost guarantee Aegon the throne. As a likely architect of the Aegon restoration, and given he's definitely in KL, it would make sense were he manouevring the largest army in Westeros, and one of the least war damaged, behind his conspiracy.

But then why would the Tyrells marry Margaery to Tommen and create an alliance with the Lannisters if they were working to put Aegon on the throne? Doran didn't know of Aegon's existence, and he is a staunch Targaryen supporter. Varys didn't let anyone in Westeros or Essos know about Aegon.

[danm_999]

There used to be a theory, it was called the Grand Tyrell conspiracy, that Loras was just fine and that it was only intimated to Cersei he was hurt so she wouldn't request him for a trial by combat.

However, ADWD put a rather large bullet in that theory, as Kevan Lannister's epilogue confirms his injuries on Dragonstone, but given that he's still alive, it appears his injuries aren't fatal.

[Lion of Judah]

I think Loras was wounded. What would the Tyrells expect to gain from lying about his condition? Their goal is to keep Tommen in power, and have him live long enough to have children with Margaery.

I believe Loras is injured as well, but I find it strange that Mace left his son at Dragonstone injured to go back to King's Landing after Margery is accused of treason.

[IRON BANK]

I don'y believe Loras was injured at Dragon stone, remember the resistance at court Margery and Loras put up when Cersie refused to assist with the protection of High garden. This is loras's oppurtunity to sneak away. and Go handle that situation. w/o interference from Cersie.

[TalalOfDorne]

Its possible that nothing has happened to him, yes.

[Fire Eater]

I believe Loras is injured as well, but I find it strange that Mace left his son at Dragonstone injured to go back to King's Landing after Margery is accused of treason.

Don't forget this is Mace we're talking about, the weakest link of the Tyrells.

[Light a wight tonight]

I used to think the story was made up so Loras could sneak out and campaign against the Ironborn, who are ravaging the Reach and threatening Oldtown. Now I'm not so sure, but it still seems very possible.

As the Tyrells gain power in King's Landing Cersei seems more and more expendable.

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

It wouldn't be the first time GRRM had somebody's demise falsely/prematurely reported via secondhand sources. Heck, this is only a few chapters after the court is told White Harbor "executed" Davos to prove their loyalty. [Now, granted, he also likes to hit characters where it really hurts: Jaime's sword hand, Theon's genitals, Bran's ability to climb, etc. So marring Loras' pretty face would also be completely in keeping with pattern. But a grisly facial scar can easily be much less than fatal. We've got Sandor Clegane to prove that.]

It wouldn't be the first time the Tyrells ran a misdirection play or relied on sleight of hand and illusion to get the upper hand on their opponents, either. Deception is their bread-and-butter play, actually. Riding a mare in heat, Garlan cosplaying as Renly and causing people to "see a ghost", the ultimate shell game with Sansa's amethyst and a distraction-filled wedding dinner. Letting a false rumor of Loras being mortally wounded circulate is entirely in keeping with How They Roll.

Additionally Aurane Waters, our "ace reporter" for this story, is about as unreliable a source as you can have, as he proves in short order.

Loras' injuries may be overstated. They may be nonexistent. That may well have been some other poor sap wearing his armor and helmet. They may not have even been their, blowing off their duty to the Iron Throne to handle business at home (expelling the Ironborn from The Reach) like they wanted to do in the first place.

I think this is the first theory I encountered on this forum that was "New To Me" when I joined a little over a year ago. It's definitely the first such one I ascribed to.

[Lion of Judah]

Don't forget this is Mace we're talking about, the weakest link of the Tyrells.

True.

[oprahnoodlemantra]

I think Loras discovered something on Dragonstone. He hates Stannis and it's possible that something was left behind that would give Loras clues as to what happened to Renly and/or what's going on with Melisandre. Maybe the maester spilled the beans?

[Runaway Penguin]

Dragonstone was stormed and Loras was injured.

Storming of Dragonstone meanttthat a thousand of Lannister veterans went "poof".

Loras injury is less severe than reported to Cersei by Aurane Waters - and I believe only few ships come back with him, likely hand-picked people who are "in" on what happened.

While "searching Dragonstone" may just mean the castle being searched on Loras' command, I think it refers to him actually doing it - that doesn't compute with massive injuries reported to cersei. so he was injured, but less seriously and Tyrrels are up to something now.

[Waylin Stark]

I believed it at first, but then I realized we were seeing things through Cersei's paranoid and insane POV.

It makes lots of sense that he wasn't injured, and I believe it.

[Mithras]

From the Epilogue of ADwD:

Mace Tyrell remained unmoved. “Once Paxter Redwyne sweeps the ironmen from the seas, my sons will retake the Shields. The snows will do for Stannis, or Bolton will. As for Connington …”

Do you think that Mace is referring to Garlan and Willas the cripple for retaking the Shields?

[Iona]

Do you think that Mace is referring to Garlan and Willas the cripple for retaking the Shields?

Haahaa! Busted! :lmao:

[ambi76]

Yes. :(

[Lummel]

From the Epilogue of ADwD:

Do you think that Mace is referring to Garlan and Willas the cripple for retaking the Shields?

Why not? Garlan is certainly set up as a more formidable fighter than Loras and a cunning commander. We don't know much about Willas, he certainly was trained as a knight and even if he couldn't fight toe to toe with Euron he could certainly command an army - Stannis and Tywin didn't lead their armies from the front, it's not obligatory.

[Mithras]

Why not? Garlan is certainly set up as a more formidable fighter than Loras and a cunning commander. We don't know much about Willas, he certainly was trained as a knight and even if he couldn't fight toe to toe with Euron he could certainly command an army - Stannis and Tywin didn't lead their armies from the front, it's not obligatory.

“As you trampled Willas Tyrell?”

The Dornishman did not react as expected. “I had a letter from Willas not half a year past. We share an interest in fine horseflesh. He has never borne me any ill will for what happened in the lists. I struck his breastplate clean, but his foot caught in a stirrup as he fell and his horse came down on top of him. I sent a maester to him afterward, but it was all he could do to save the boy’s leg. The knee was far past mending. If any were to blame, it was his fool of a father. Willas Tyrell was green as his surcoat and had no business riding in such company. The Fat Flower thrust him into tourneys at too tender an age, just as he did with the other two. He wanted another Leo Longthorn, and made himself a cripple.”

“I have considered the Redwyne twins, Theon Greyjoy, Quentyn Martell, and a number of others. But our alliance with Highgarden was the sword that broke Stannis. It should be tempered and made stronger. Ser Loras has taken the white and Ser Garlan is wed to one of the Fossoways, but there remains the eldest son, the boy they scheme to wed to Sansa Stark.”

Willas Tyrell. Tyrion was taking a wicked pleasure in Cersei’s helpless fury. “That would be the cripple,” he said.

Their father chilled him with a look. “Willas is heir to Highgarden, and by all reports a mild and courtly young man, fond of reading books and looking at the stars. He has a passion for breeding animals as well, and owns the finest hounds, hawks, and horses in the Seven Kingdoms.”

[Jon of the Dead]

Wherever Loras is, he's not in the Reach:

Hundreds of their ships afflict us now, sailing out of the Shield Islands and some of the rocks around the Arbor. They have taken Stonecrab Cay, the Isle of Pigs, and the Mermaid’s Palace, and there are other nests on Horseshoe Rock and Bastard’s Cradle. Without Lord Redwyne’s fleet, we lack the ships to come to grips with them.”

Till then, the best we can do is guard the sound and wait for the bitch queen in King’s Landing to let Lord Paxter off his leash.”

Loras and Paxter would not hesitate to defend the Arbor and Oldtown, now that they are in such dire straits. But they can't help it because they are on Dragonstone, so that part at least seems to be true

Regarding his injuries, they have to be true because if they aren't and then he meets Cersei again, she's going to mark all the Tyrells as liars.

But I don't think he really had a lot of oil dropped on him. My theory is that he continued the obsidian mining operations and got burned down in the mines or in Dragonmont

[Fire and Blood!]

Yes, I have no reason not to. Unlike many(if not most) of the people on this forum I usually perceive things to be what they're presented as and don't see a conspiracy everywhere.