Roose killed Domeric ... And Barbrey Knows It

[bemused]

Why? There is nothing in text that suggests so, right?

I've mentioned this earlier.. Bethany's date of death isn't stated anywhere.. She could have died several years before Domeric.

There are things in the text that suggest to me that Roose may well have thought Dom was Brandon's bastard (I really have to stop being distracted by other topics and finish that update)...

Admittedly, my thoughts on the topic are very speculative (no definite proof), but are based on perceived hints and on things said by characters that, to me, don't quite ring true and / or seem to be a deviation from the way things normally would be expected to work.

I strongly suspect that GRRM has purposely kept the scenario vague because it potentially touches on the events of KoLT and the tourney at Harrenhall ( as well as the ancient enmity between Stark and Bolton).

And I have acknowledged before (upthread) that you are correct - Bethany's date of death is uncertain. I have explained that, at the time I wrote the OP, and for most discussion on the thread , the wiki clearly stated things that were edited out by Aug. 2014 ... E.G. , it stated that Greywater Fever can be "treated" in a way to cause a long, drawn out and agonising death.. this led me to question whether other "fevers" were susceptible to the same "treatment" .. Now we only get the statement that many (most?) medicines can also be used to poison, and this point is made much less suggestively than it was previously. (I believe the whole sections on poisons, medicines , medical treatments are even arranged differently than they were before) .

The wiki also clearly stated at that time, either that Bethany died just previous to (or at about the time) that Robb called the banners, or 2 yrs after Dom (which would amount to the same thing). I had linked to the wiki in the OP (Of course, now I wish I had cut and pasted a quote.)

But I don't think the date of Bethany's death actually matters greatly to what Lady Dustin's opinions or suspicions may be in the matter, or to where I'm going with this. I think there's enough in the text to make us suspicious , anyway.

I know you're involved now with the wiki and also the timeline, so regardless of whether we agree or disagree on the eventual interpretation of what "facts" George gives us .. ;) .. I very much value your comments (really) and look forward to them when I get the update posted (soon, I hope).

[Aemond's Eye]

While I could easily see Roose attempting to get rid of Ramsay for no other reason than because he's Ramsay, I feel that Roose is too politically astute for that; for one, he has no Bolton heir if he does so, so he would be (potentially) willingly ending the Bolton line, which I don't see Roose as being in favor of, and secondly, from the perspective of the Northerners, the Boltons-as-Overlords is only held in place because they have married into the Starks--if Ramsay is dead, the marriage no longer exists, so the North has no reason to continue to support him. Roose would know this, and thus would attempt to keep Ramsay until at least he has a new son (who he could then wed to "Arya"?)

The only other possibility that I could see Roose contemplating is ridding himself of both Ramsay and Fat Frey, thus freeing him from that marriage and allowing himself to be free to marry "Arya", thus (possibly) giving himself a "Bolton" heir while still maintaining the Bolton-Stark marriage that is the key to his holding of the North.

I think Roose would rather be rid of Ramsay than Walda. Walda is already pregnant and could produce heirs that Roose can mould in his own image. The marriage also provides ties to a powerful Southron family, which Roose sorely needs at a time when he can't trust many of his Northern vassals.

Ramsay, on the other hand, was only legitimized out of necessity - a contigency plan should Walda not prove fertile, ensuring that House Bolton lingers on at least. Ramsay was never educated as a noble should be; he lacks the necessary skills to lead a House. He has some cunning, sure, but he's also seemingly not smart enough to be long sighted, and won't be able to build lasting alliances or inspire loyalty, or respect. Fear? Aye, for a time. But not enough to rebuild a House.

I think Ramsay really did poison Domeric - though I am open to Roose either poisoning him or even encouraging Ramsay to. Or just expected that Ramsay would - allowing Domeric to attempt to befriend him, knowing that Ramsay didn't have any such feelings of kinship. That makes sense if Roose doubted his paternity. But even so, I don't think a man as calculating as Roose actually wants Ramsay as his heir.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I've always hated this theory. Is it so hard to believe that Ramsay killed his trueborn brother? Roose's strange feelings regarding his offspring are just part of his ice-cold personality. There's no need for elaborate conspiracy speculation

[bemused]

Well, I've never said there was a need for it. It's not as if I tried to think of an outre idea and then set out to prove it..No,I kept noticing things that didn't quite add up, and they eventually led me to these suspicions. And it's not hard at all to believe Ramsay would kill his trueborn brother .. I've just come to question that he did..

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

There are things in the text that suggest to me that Roose may well have thought Dom was Brandon's bastard (I really have to stop being distracted by other topics and finish that update)...

Admittedly, my thoughts on the topic are very speculative (no definite proof), but are based on perceived hints and on things said by characters that, to me, don't quite ring true and / or seem to be a deviation from the way things normally would be expected to work.

I strongly suspect that GRRM has purposely kept the scenario vague because it potentially touches on the events of KoLT and the tourney at Harrenhall ( as well as the ancient enmity between Stark and Bolton).

I'll be looking forward to the update :)

And I have acknowledged before (upthread) that you are correct - Bethany's date of death is uncertain. I have explained that, at the time I wrote the OP, and for most discussion on the thread , the wiki clearly stated things that were edited out by Aug. 2014 ... E.G. , it stated that Greywater Fever can be "treated" in a way to cause a long, drawn out and agonising death.. this led me to question whether other "fevers" were susceptible to the same "treatment" .. Now we only get the statement that many (most?) medicines can also be used to poison, and this point is made much less suggestively than it was previously. (I believe the whole sections on poisons, medicines , medical treatments are even arranged differently than they were before) .

The wiki also clearly stated at that time, either that Bethany died just previous to (or at about the time) that Robb called the banners, or 2 yrs after Dom (which would amount to the same thing). I had linked to the wiki in the OP (Of course, now I wish I had cut and pasted a quote.)

But I don't think the date of Bethany's death actually matters greatly to what Lady Dustin's opinions or suspicions may be in the matter, or to where I'm going with this. I think there's enough in the text to make us suspicious , anyway.

I know you're involved now with the wiki and also the timeline, so regardless of whether we agree or disagree on the eventual interpretation of what "facts" George gives us .. ;) .. I very much value your comments (really) and look forward to them when I get the update posted (soon, I hope).

I know we had discussed it upthread, but I have to admit, I had forgotten to check for the date of the last edit of the OP, so I assumed that an update had already taken place, and thus concluded that you had left it in by accident. I should have checked the "last edited" date..