[BOOK SPOILERS] Episode titles for season 4?

[Shaldun]

I just saw on Reddit someone proposing Family Duty Honor for episode 10. Really a fitting title when you think of it. The Tullys girls are both present, Tyrion has some Family problems, Jon chooses Duty and Honor before his Family (the name Stark), Dany will likely chain her children (dragons) to protect her other children (freedmen) making her Duty, ....

[Lord Varys]

I very much doubt that they fail to jump on the opportunity to name one episode 'The Red Viper' (they can't use that title next season), and 'Elia' would be such a fitting title for the duel episode (if they don't botch it and cut Oberyn's monologue).

Oberyn should be in the center of one episode pre-duel, possibly the episode where he offers Tyrion to be his champion. And that should better come as a twist at the end of an episode.

[Obebb]

I hope those last episode titles are fake (most likely are, where did people even get those?) If the episode 8 title (or whichever episode the duel will be in) doesn't have anything to do with Oberyn or Dorne I will be upset

[binhorde]

401— Two Swords

402 — The Lion and the Rose

403 — Breaker of Chains

404 — Oathkeeper

405 — (To Be Determined)

406 — Sons of the Harpy

407 — (To Be Determined)

408 — The Gift of Mercy

409 — The King Beyond the Wall

410 — The Fall

I think giving episodes 405 and 407 the same name is going to lead to some confusion.

[Annara Snow]

I think giving episodes 405 and 407 the same name is going to lead to some confusion.

:lol:

If that wasn't a joke, just pretend it was. (Some people over at Winteriscoming were deadly serious when they said the same thing. :blink:)

[Lord Carson]

I really hope these are fake. There is no reason for the Sons of the Harpy situation to be coming up THIS early. I get that they're advancing her story a little bit, but starting the Harpy stuff now would be a big mistake.

[Ice Wolf]

I'm quite happy with the titles for the first four episodes. The titles suggest that the show will portray the reforging of Ice as a big deal and a tradgedy to the history of House Stark, which it definitely is.As for later episodes, 'Elia' is just too perfect a name not be be used for the Viper/Mountain duel episode.

[binhorde]

:lol:

If that wasn't a joke, just pretend it was. (Some people over at Winteriscoming were deadly serious when they said the same thing. :blink:)

Yeah it was a joke. I didn't know they had already used that joke, but then again, based on your description...I guess they didn't.

[Mr Smith]

Why?

It's just a hunch tbh. Mainly based on the fact that Dany doesn't have a lot to do before she reaches Mereen, which I'm guessing is Ep 3, so they'll probably only visit her in ep 1 or 2, and given that we've got the PW in Ep 2, I'm just guessing they'll skip her, I could be wrong. Worth noting that Dany never has 10 episodes, she was missing in ep 2 and ep 6 of last season.

[Rashtibram]

I really hope these are fake. There is no reason for the Sons of the Harpy situation to be coming up THIS early. I get that they're advancing her story a little bit, but starting the Harpy stuff now would be a big mistake.

Why would that be a big mistake?

I for one am fully in favor of giving her ADWD story a little nudge out the door, in the hopes that the Battle of Meereen might have space to fit in season 5. Not to mention the fact that if they don't bring forward her ADWD material this season, most of what she'll be doing in season 4 will probably come off as filler (taking another city, freeing the slaves, blah blah blah etc). Also, in nearly all of the promos and trailers, her ruling troubles in Meereen have been the obvious focus of her arc: from all this, I gather that she'll be taking Meereen no later than episode 4 or 5, and that the rest of her arc for the season will deal with

-Astapor and Yunkai in revolt

-The Meereenese shadow war

-Jorah's betrayal

-Dany chaining up her dragons

All in all, starting to show her weaker side to the Unsullied, in preparation for season 5 when things really get out of hand.

This would leave room for her arc in season 5 to be less clustered and packed with unnecessary filler than it was in the books, as the only (new) plot points which would have to be dealt with would be

-The arrival of Quentyn (if they keep him)

-Hizdahr's Proposal

-Yunkai marching on Meereen, and the escalation of the shadow war

-Peace for 90 days

-Dany's wedding to Hizdahr

All this can be artfully handled in about half a season IMO, leaving room for Daznak's Pit around the end of episode 6 or 7 so that the Battle of Meereen can fit in 9.

[Khal-a-bunga]

^ Pretty much how I would hope things play out. Also requires the writers to cut the fat out of Tyrion, Victarion, and Quentyn's (who I think will appear, but have a highly condensed presence) story lines, which will definitely be a good thing.

[Lord Varys]

I think they really should drag out the Conquest of Meereen thing. First, they could show us some of the Meereenese while their are still in arrogance and power (I doubt that Hizdahr will be introduced only after Dany has taken the city), and Meereen also must really vex Dany (crucified slaves) and prove somewhat of a challenge to convince her to stay there and rule the city (and better the Meereenese).

I also think that we really need Galazza Galare for the more intimate scheming in Meereen, and he shas not been cast this season, has she? Since the show has failed to enable Barristan to reveal Jorah's betrayal, my guess is that the cause of the rift between Dany and Jorah, and his eventual banishment, will be Dany's evolving relationship with Daario.

I hope they don't take the story farther than the imprisonment of the dragons, and Dany's final decision to stay in Meereen.

[Guard of the Rainking]

I think they really should drag out the Conquest of Meereen thing. First, they could show us some of the Meereenese while their are still in arrogance and power (I doubt that Hizdahr will be introduced only after Dany has taken the city), and Meereen also must really vex Dany (crucified slaves) and prove somewhat of a challenge to convince her to stay there and rule the city (and better the Meereenese).

I also think that we really need Galazza Galare for the more intimate scheming in Meereen, and he has not been cast this season, has she? Since the show has failed to enable Barristan to reveal Jorah's betrayal, my guess is that the cause of the rift between Dany and Jorah, and his eventual banishment, will be Dany's evolving relationship with Daario.

I hope they don't take the story farther than the imprisonment of the dragons, and Dany's final decision to stay in Meereen.

:agree:

[Rashtibram]

I think they really should drag out the Conquest of Meereen thing. First, they could show us some of the Meereenese while their are still in arrogance and power (I doubt that Hizdahr will be introduced only after Dany has taken the city), and Meereen also must really vex Dany (crucified slaves) and prove somewhat of a challenge to convince her to stay there and rule the city (and better the Meereenese).

I also think that we really need Galazza Galare for the more intimate scheming in Meereen, and he shas not been cast this season, has she? Since the show has failed to enable Barristan to reveal Jorah's betrayal, my guess is that the cause of the rift between Dany and Jorah, and his eventual banishment, will be Dany's evolving relationship with Daario.

I hope they don't take the story farther than the imprisonment of the dragons, and Dany's final decision to stay in Meereen.

This would be fine, but I stand by my point that the show needs to speed Dany's arc up this season. The taking Meereen arc has the potential to be very repetitive, since it's basically the same story as the one we saw at the end of last season with Yunkai. I can just picture my Unsullied friends gritting their teeth ("Get to Westeros already, no one cares about dumb Essos politics!") if they do what you outline above. We don't need another Qarth. I would be wholly in favor of simplifying her entire ADWD arc into the following plot points:

-Dany struggles in Meereen due to famine and plague

-The Sons of the Harpy are killing Unsullied in the night; everyone wonders who the Harpy is

-Hizdahr zo Loraq, introduced as a generic nobleman of the city, proposes marriage to Dany; Dany gives him ninety days to restore peace.

-Astapor and Yunkai revolt and a Yunkish army begins marching on Meereen

-Drogon kills a little girl, Dany chains up her remaining dragons

-Jorah's betrayal is revealed; Dany sends him away

-Quentyn Martell arrives (season 5), Dany rejects his proposal.

-Dany agrees to marry Hizdahr; they have their wedding, and Dany agrees to open the fighting pits

-Daznak's Pit

-Barristan and Quentyn develop and execute their plans over the course of a couple episodes

-the Battle of Meereen and its aftermath.

There. I think that can easily be accomplished in a season and a half, most of those plot points only require one relatively short scene to portray, and I don't think it would be wise to extend her material further than it needs to go.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Yes, agreed, but this doesn't have much to do with episode titles, right? (but still, your last plot point requires other characters arcs to catch up, mainly Tyrion seems to have quite a lot to do to reach this stage)

[oierem]

Yes, agreed, but this doesn't have much to do with episode titles, right? (but still, your last plot point requires other characters arcs to catch up, mainly Tyrion seems to have quite a lot to do to reach this stage)

Not at all. Tyrion's whole ADWD story is just travelling, and that can be easily shortened. There are a few important point: meeting Aegon (first few episodes of the season), and being captured by Jorah (episode 4 or 5), and finally being captured by slaves (episode 6 or 7) to reach Meereen in time for the action if it does happen at the end of season 5.

Otherwise, it's a very unsatisfying storyline, a whole season of travelling WITHOUT reaching the destination (which is not Meereen, but Daenerys).

If the leaked titles are indeed real, I like how Dany's storyline in season 4 will be very advanced by the end of the season (which will of course end with Jorah's banishment and the dragons inprisoned). Indeed, the trailers seem to focus mostly on her ruling and her troubles with the dragons, not about taking Meereen.

[Lord Varys]

I think they could make due with a slower pace in Dany's arc if they spend time of developing her character, as well as the character of the people surrounding her (i.e. Jorah, new Daario, Barristan, Missandei), as well as they motivations and goals.

For instance, I'm pretty sure the 'dragons are dangerous' theme will come up early in season 4 - before Dany even takes Meereen - but will only escalate in the second half of the season. I guess it may come up to use the dragons to conquer Meereen, but to no avail because it seems that they have already grown too wild.

We know that Daario will face the Meereenese champion in single combat. I very much doubt that this will mark the conquest of Meereen. They already used a variation of the way Dany's forces took Meereen last season when she took Yunkai, so my guess is the whole sewer plot line (and thus a relatively easy taking of Meereen) will be gone.

They could make the taking of Meereen an important plot point by stretching the point that the city was between them and they route to Westeros, and thus making it a huge twist when Dany decides to stay there.

I do expect the conquest of Meereen to happen in mid-season or so, but I don't think they will advance very far into ADwD territory but add invented or changed stuff. For instance, I could see the beginning of the Dany-Daario-relationship after Daario's duel with the Meereenese champion. This, in turn, could start strain the Dany-Jorah-relationship, culminating in Jorah's banishment when Dany decides to stay in Meereen. It's possible that they make Daario suggests this idea to Dany. Missandei could also play an important part. I really think they have to/should take their to properly introduce Meereen and Ghiscari culture. Dany will stay there for quite a while, after all.

I'm also pretty sure that Jorah's betrayal won't/can't be revealed. There is no one there who could tell Dany anything about it, at least, as long as he is not still in contact with Varys, and one of his letters is found...

[Joyful Union]

Jorah could have kept the amnesty scroll Varys' little bird handed him in Season 1. Barristan getting suspicious and finding it among Jorah's affairs could be a way to handle the banishment.

[Draco_Dracul]

Really ? I was thinking she was already in less episodes than that. But TBH if she doesn't go to Braavos this season (are we sure of that ?), I don't see why she would do in 9 episodes this season. 5 episodes are more than enough to cover her wandering with the Hound in the Riverlands.

Did she do any filming in Croatia? Braavos is based Venice, and usually Croatia is used is place of the actual Venice due to costs and filming restrictions in Venice. It wouldn't be definitive as they already film in Croatia (for King's Landing, and I think Pentos).

[SM4e]

Why would that be a big mistake?

I for one am fully in favor of giving her ADWD story a little nudge out the door, in the hopes that the Battle of Meereen might have space to fit in season 5. Not to mention the fact that if they don't bring forward her ADWD material this season, most of what she'll be doing in season 4 will probably come off as filler (taking another city, freeing the slaves, blah blah blah etc). Also, in nearly all of the promos and trailers, her ruling troubles in Meereen have been the obvious focus of her arc: from all this, I gather that she'll be taking Meereen no later than episode 4 or 5, and that the rest of her arc for the season will deal with

-Astapor and Yunkai in revolt

-The Meereenese shadow war

-Jorah's betrayal

-Dany chaining up her dragons

All in all, starting to show her weaker side to the Unsullied, in preparation for season 5 when things really get out of hand.

This would leave room for her arc in season 5 to be less clustered and packed with unnecessary filler than it was in the books, as the only (new) plot points which would have to be dealt with would be

-The arrival of Quentyn (if they keep him)

-Hizdahr's Proposal

-Yunkai marching on Meereen, and the escalation of the shadow war

-Peace for 90 days

-Dany's wedding to Hizdahr

All this can be artfully handled in about half a season IMO, leaving room for Daznak's Pit around the end of episode 6 or 7 so that the Battle of Meereen can fit in 9.

In my opinion they cannot afford putting Daznak's Pit + Rhaegal and Viserion being released and The Battle of Meereen (which will be the biggest battle until that point) into one season. Moreover, this would mean that they're taking away one of TWOW's most anticipated things to happen.

I actually expect both, The Battle of Meereen and The Battle of Winterfell, to be in the beginning of Season 6. I don't think that there will be a big Battle of Winterfell, but (as many assume) a Trojan-horse-move, so that for the Battle of Meereen higher amounts of budget can be used. I also suspect Jon's death to be in early/mid of Season 6 and have as the final scene of Season 6 whatever happens to him (resurrection, ...).

Daznak's pit makes a great 5x09 for me. In addition to Quentyn releasing the dragons, this would make some great television. They can expand the entire scene by letting Tyrion actually face a lion or by showing more attempts to kill Drogon in order to provoke the show-only-watchers to fear for their favorite character Tyrion (Ned's death in 1x09, Robb's death in 3x09 - you see the pattern?).

Drogon flying off with Daenerys out of sight and Viserion/Rhaegal destroying Meereen would make a tremendous last scene and Daenerys' failure of ruling would be explicitly shown.

For Season 4 this would mean that some stuff would have to be extended. In my opinion Jorah's betrayal will make an even greater part than it did in the books (they promote him and Daario quite a lot) and a conflict between him and Daario seems inevitable. Maybe Daenerys will be fed up because he is trying to tell her that she cannot tame her dragons.

But in addition to this there is still quite a lot of other stuff that will have to be handled this season:

1. Daenerys deciding to go to Meereen

2. Crucified children all along the way pointing to Meereen

3. Reintroduction/New-Introduction to Daario, possibly Daenerys making out with him

4. Jorah becoming jealous, Daenerys distancing from him

5. Daario vs. Oznak zo Pahl

6. I think there will be a small battle for Meereen since we have seen the Unsullied using their arrows (which hasn't been in the books) in a trailer/other video

7. The killings of the masters (as seen in the first trailer)

8. Several small council conferences; Daenerys finally saying she will rule - Jorah protesting

9. Daenerys vs. the master - Jorah telling her that the world cannot be divided into good and bad humans

10. Hizdahr zo Loraq wanting the fighting pits to be reopened

11. 10 again one or two episodes later and at the same time him asking her to marry him

12. Small council conference: Rumors of dragons attacking innocents; Daenerys refusing to believe

13. Jorah telling Daenerys that dragons cannot b tamed, not even by their mother - further distancing of Daenerys from him

14. Drogon killing an innocent

15. Daenerys again not believing this when discussed at the small council

16. Bones brought to her by the Goatherd and she realising that she cannot control her dragons anymore

+ several scenes with Missandei, Barristan and Greyworm & more Daario+Daenerys screwing.

This wouldn't go too deep into ADWD and let place for many ADWD events to happen, so that Daenerys' arc can be finished as it did in the books in 5x10.