Could Cersei have stopped it?

[Ser Pounce FTW]

“My mother bids me let Lord Eddard take the black, and Lady Sansa has begged mercy for her father.” He looked straight at Sansa then, and smiled , and for a moment Arya thought that the gods had heard her prayer, until Joffrey turned back to the crowd and said, “But they have the soft hearts of women. So long as I am your king, treason shall never go unpunished. Ser Ilyn, bring me his head!”

We all know that Joffrey executed Ned even though everyone was expecting him to exile Ned to the wall. Could Cersei have interceded after he made this speech since Joffrey was still a minor at the time and she was within her rights a Queen Regent to carry out the decision that she and the small council agreed on? I realize this might have been out of character for Cersei since she always encouraged strength and absolute rule but even she recognized that executing Ned was a very bad decision. Could she have stepped up after Joffrey and said something like, "People of Westeros. My son show's a man's courage and his strength shall serve you well. But Lord Eddard has served the realm well yet because he has made such a disastrous decision, he is exiled forever to serve us again the realm again at the Wall."

What say you? Is this a feasible decision? More importantly, how would Tywin have handled the situation had he been present?

[thegreatwhitebear]

Yes she could have, and tywin most certainly would have. Iirc when joff started acting up in front of his grandfather, and insulting him, tywin basically had him escorted from the room and put to bed like a 2 year old.

[Faint]

Two points. First, Joffrey is not really a minor, not in the world he lives in. He is only two years younger than Robb. Secondly, it was almost impossible to even question the order because it was in front of a crowd. Cersei would be very hard pressed to defy the king under such circumstances and, honestly, even if she did, it is doubtful that anybody would have listened to her.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Two points. First, Joffrey is not really a minor, not in the world he lives in. He is only two years younger than Robb. Secondly, it was almost impossible to even question the order because it was in front of a crowd. Cersei would be very hard pressed to defy the king under such circumstances and, honestly, even if she did, it is doubtful that anybody would have listened to her.

Joffrey is 14 at the time of his death so he is still not considered a man grown which occurs at age 16 according to Martin.

[Chaircat Meow]

Legally Cersei is the one in authority, as she is the regent. However, she did not know Slynt and Payne very well and neither of them will have wanted to defy the king in a matter this important.

When he comes of age he would remember you see, and that wouldn't be good for them.

edit: there might be the faint possibility Littlefinger had words with Slynt beforehand, to make sure he did as Joff asked, even though it was contrary to Cersei's wishes.

[Tony Soprano]

No, she couldn't have. At that point she had already started losing her grip over him, and his decision to execute Ned proves just how much he had strayed from her influence.

Tywin could have. He's the only person that would have been able to force the King to overturn his decision in public like that, without causing a scene.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

No, she couldn't. At that point she had already started losing her grip over him, and his decision to execute Ned proves just how much he had strayed from her influence.

Tywin could have. He's the only person that would have been able to force the King to overturn his decision in public like that, without causing a scene.

But how would the crowd know she had begun to lose her grip on Joffrey? If Tywin could have spoken up why couldn't Cersei? Wouldn't Pycelle, Varys and the other members of the crowd jumped in right behind her and said yes, that's what we will do?

[Golden Lion]

Wasn't there a thread somewhere saying Baelish convince Joffrey to kill Ned?

Anyway, no I don't think she could have. Yes she is Queen Regent but more people are loyal to the King than to her, putting the regent and the king at odds won't end well for the regent.

And she did try to get him to reconsider but she tried to reason with him as a mother rather than a regent. Plus why would she throw Joffrey under the bus for Ned Stark? In a few years Joffrey would be king in his own right and he'd remember that which would be dangerous for Cersei.

The execution was a rather exceptional circumstance anyway because of the public presence and who would react positively to seeing the queen save a confessed traitor?

[mrunderhill]

Wasn't there a thread somewhere saying Baelish convince Joffrey to kill Ned?

Anyway, no I don't think she could have. Yes she is Queen Regent but more people are loyal to the King than to her, putting the regent and the king at odds won't end well for the regent.

And she did try to get him to reconsider but she tried to reason with him as a mother rather than a regent. Plus why would she throw Joffrey under the bus for Ned Stark? In a few years Joffrey would be king in his own right and he'd remember that which would be dangerous for Cersei.

The execution was a rather exceptional circumstance anyway because of the public presence and who would react positively to seeing the queen save a confessed traitor?

Exactly. This is something people don't seem to grasp due to the Tyrion's words. What idiot would go against a king 2 years away from ruling in his own right?

Cersei may have been able to calm him down and have Ned saved, but not once a public order was made. I also thought Cersei was secretly proud every time Joffrey disobeyed her and stood up for himself. Even Tyrion was impressed when Joffrey stood up to Tywin and it is something Cersei praises him for constantly.

[Lion of Judah]

She could have stopped it, but why would she just allow Ned Stark to go back North with information that can haunt her so long as her family rules in KL? Once Ned Stark played his hand there was no way he could live.

[Golden Lion]

She could have stopped it, but why would she just allow Ned Stark to go back North with information that can haunt her so long as her family rules in KL? Once Ned Stark played his hand there was no way he could live.

I don't think she planned for him to die, and if Ned went to wall he couldn't start telling tales because Arya (for all he knew) and Sansa's life would be the penalty.

And it isn't as if Ned could leave the wall once he's sworn the vows, because of his precious honour.

It seemed like a rather decent plan considering KL had no intention of giving up his daughter(s) and that would keep Ned quiet.

[Chaircat Meow]

Yea, the execution, which was a really stupid move on Joff's part, was all on Joff and Littlefinger.

Cersei, Tywin and Tyrion all knew it was a terrible idea.

[Lion of Judah]

I don't think she planned for him to die, and if Ned went to wall he couldn't start telling tales because Arya (for all he knew) and Sansa's life would be the penalty.

And it isn't as if Ned could leave the wall once he's sworn the vows, because of his precious honour.

It seemed like a rather decent plan considering KL had no intention of giving up his daughter(s) and that would keep Ned quiet.

A thing people don't often give consideration to is Cersei holding the girls hostage. I don't think there can be peace with the North if Cersei holds onto them to keep Ned quite. There is a contradiction here in that no matter what there won't be peace with the North. It's either war for Ned or for the girls.

[Golden Lion]

A thing people don't often give consideration to is Cersei holding the girls hostage. I don't think there can be peace with the North if Cersei holds onto them to keep Ned quite. There is a contradiction here in that no matter what there won't be peace with the North. It's either war for Ned or for the girls.

Well no.

With Ned at the wall the reason for the banners to assemble is gone. The banners only assemble when called by their lord or when something happens to their lord, they intended to get ned free and then they intended to avenge him once he was dead.

The banners wouldn't march south to save two girls while winterfells held 3 male heirs. Robb would have bent the knee, any other option wouldn't get support from the north, especially not over rescuing two girls.

[Lion of Judah]

Well no.

With Ned at the wall the reason for the banners to assemble is gone. The banners only assemble when called by their lord or when something happens to their lord, they intended to get ned free and then they intended to avenge him once he was dead.

The banners wouldn't march south to save two girls while winterfells held 3 male heirs. Robb would have bent the knee, any other option wouldn't get support from the north, especially not over rescuing two girls.

Maybe, maybe not. This is the same place that saw a monarch overthrown over a Stark girl before and I'm not so sure Ned sits back on the wall and lives out his days knowing that Cersei and her minions killed his best friend and usurped the crown. At some point common sense has to kick in for Ned and he does have options with Stannis mounting a host on Dragonstone. So sit at the wall and honor a vow to a false monarch or call your banners and fight for the rightful one in Stannis? Which is the more honorable thing to do?

[Golden Lion]

Maybe, maybe not. This is the same place that saw a monarch overthrown over a Stark girl before and I'm not so sure Ned sits back on the wall and lives out his days knowing that Cersei and her minions killed his best friend and usurped the crown. At some point common sense has to kick in for Ned and he does have options with Stannis mounting a host on Dragonstone. So sit at the wall and honor a vow to a false monarch or call your banners and fight for the rightful one in Stannis? Which is the more honorable thing to do?

Ned doesn't have common sense. And Ned has no knowledge that Robert's death was anything but an accident.

Ned wouldn't risk his daughters, Ned only makes moves like that once his family are safe that's why he attempted to pack them off to winterfell before trying to usurp joffrey.

If the series plays out with ned alive at the wall then the tyrells would still be in an alliance with lannisters. except the lannisters would be even stronger due to having no conflict with the starks.

Ned would back Stannis if he had to pack a side and Stannis would still lose and Sansa would probably die.

[Chaircat Meow]

Maybe, maybe not. This is the same place that saw a monarch overthrown over a Stark girl before and I'm not so sure Ned sits back on the wall and lives out his days knowing that Cersei and her minions killed his best friend and usurped the crown. At some point common sense has to kick in for Ned and he does have options with Stannis mounting a host on Dragonstone. So sit at the wall and honor a vow to a false monarch or call your banners and fight for the rightful one in Stannis? Which is the more honorable thing to do?

The Nightswatch vow does not depend on the good character, or the legitimacy of the king. It is not sworn in his name.

It is sworn before the old gods and it makes you oathbound to play no part in the affairs of the realm. Breaking it would be dishonourable once Ned had sworn it.

[juanml82]

The banners assemble whenever their Liege Lords demand it. To oppose him is treason. And, in any case, Robb could (and maybe should) have called them to assist the Riverlands, which were under attack from House Lannister.

Saving Ned's life considerably lowers the odds in the war between the Lannisters and the Tully-Stark cobelligerance/alliance.

So, Cersei had good reasons to defy Joffrey, as well as reasons for not defying him. But, in any case, Ilyn Payne acted to fast, Cersei probably didn't have time to make up her mind.

[mrunderhill]

Ned doesn't have common sense. And Ned has no knowledge that Robert's death was anything but an accident.

Ned wouldn't risk his daughters, Ned only makes moves like that once his family are safe that's why he attempted to pack them off to winterfell before trying to usurp joffrey.

If the series plays out with ned alive at the wall then the tyrells would still be in an alliance with lannisters. except the lannisters would be even stronger due to having no conflict with the starks.

Ned would back Stannis if he had to pack a side and Stannis would still lose and Sansa would probably die.

For Ned family comes before anything. Ned would never have acted whilst Arya or Sansa were at Kings Landing and either would Catelyn. After a few years sending Arya home and marrying Sansa to a one of Kevan's childrens would have kept the North and the Riverrlands quiet.

[The Bastard of Walton]

No way, Joffrey was king, his word was final.