Jon the Conqueror and his two sisters? (wargs!)

[Versiroth]

We all assume the new three headed dragon will center around Dany, because they hatched for her, but what if it ends up being centered around Jon? Although the Dragons hatched for Dany, she seems to have almost no control over them. I was actually contemplating that fact and began to wonder how and why Aegon's dragons bowed to him and his sister's wills so easily. My thoughts here are that the original Aegon and his sisters were actually powerful wargs and they were able to control their dragons by slipping into their skins and becoming one with them. And since GRRM has put a lot of time into showing us the nature of wargs, maybe this is where he's leading us. He also made it a point in ADwD to say that the people of Westeros put way to much stock into their sigils when the magister is talking to Tyrion (just because your sigil is a lion, you believe that you're a lion!). Maybe being Targaryen was never what made the dragons obey. Maybe it was the fact that Aegon and his sisters were wargs and could control them the same way Varamyr Sixskins could control his six animals. Even the ones (like the bear) that hated it. This could also explain the reasoning behind the Targaryen's incest. They wanted to keep the blood line pure in the hopes that their children retain their warg ability. But, as the ability faded, they lost control of their dragons and they eventually died out.

As far as how this plays out, maybe Jon and Dany meet and end up falling in love (I know, i know... hear me out!). The Others attack and all seems to be lost. Jon is forced to sacrifice Dany to become AA reborn. He, Arya and Sansa become the new three headed dragon and they warg into Dany's three dragons and are able to turn the tide of the war against the others.

This ending would actually make perfect sense as well. First, GRRM has made it well known to us that Jon and Arya are wargs. He's never let on that Sansa is (lady died too soon), but that could just be because he wants there to be some last minute drama with her trying to figure it out. Also, the fact that Dany has to die fits in perfectly with his need to make the ending bittersweet. And lastly, he has to know that this is the only way the 7 kingdoms will ever find peace again. Before Aegon came, the kingdoms were separate and constantly warring. Thanks to Aegon and his dragons, the realm found hundreds of years of peace. So, Jon, Arya and Sansa will once again bring this peace to Westeros... through fire... and blood.

Opinions?

[mrunderhill]

I think looking back on things it is clear Sansa is a Warg and a fairly powerful one.

He had never paid much attention to the names the children had picked, but looking at her now, he knew that Sansa had chosen well. She was the smallest of the litter, the prettiest, the most gentle and trusting. She looked at him with bright golden eyes, and he ruffled her thick grey fur.

Sounds pretty much like Sansa.

Anyway the Starks are Ice and not fire, so they will not be conquering Weesteros the Fire and Blood way.

[mindchap]

I still think there is a hint at Dany being a warg as well though.

[Versiroth]

I think looking back on things it is clear Sansa is a Warg and a fairly powerful one.

Sounds pretty much like Sansa.

Anyway the Starks are Ice and not fire, so they will not be conquering Weesteros the Fire and Blood way.

So, they'll use their ice powers and freeze the wights to death? :P

Again, you're taking their houses sigil/words too literal. Just because they are "of the north", doesn't mean that they can't warg Dragons. Honestly, it seems almost impossible to control Dragons without warging into their skins. And since Jon and the other starks are all powerful wargs, them being the new three headed dragon is the only thing that makes any sense. I mean, how will Dany ever control the dragons?

[Syphon the Sanitator]

Well, first of all, it was clearly stated by GRRM that ALL Stark children of this generation are Wargs. Curiously enough, that doesn't seem to bother with Jon's bloodline, meaning that he can still be either Lyanna's or Ned's.

At any rate, do we know how the Valyrians in general tamed the dragons? I just checked the Wiki and it says that they just raised them, rather than did anything else. In which case Dany's inability to control her "children" might not be due to a lack of warging abilities, but due to the fact that she has 3 potentially lethal fire-spewing critters to contend with, as opposed to just one. Perhaps a process of bonding took place between rider and dragon, so who knows?

That said, everybody and their mom on Valyria had dragons, considering that even house Targaryen was a minor house of no consequence with their legacy of dragons.

[Rhaegarsjoy]

I think looking back on things it is clear Sansa is a Warg and a fairly powerful one.

I don't remember seeing a single hint that Sansa is a warg much less a powerfull one.

[mindchap]

So, they'll use their ice powers and freeze the wights to death? :P

Again, you're taking their houses sigil/words too literal. Just because they are "of the north", doesn't mean that they can't warg Dragons. Honestly, it seems almost impossible to control Dragons without warging into their skins. And since Jon and the other starks are all powerful wargs, them being the new three headed dragon is the only thing that makes any sense. I mean, how will Dany ever control the dragons?

How well can you control a two or three year old child? That's a two-legged slobber box, these are four-legged lizards that breathe fire and have blood that's hot enough to burn skin, only two things can tame them, time, or magic. The Valyrians

controlled their dragons with sorcery.

[Versiroth]

Well, first of all, it was clearly stated by GRRM that ALL Stark children of this generation are Wargs. Curiously enough, that doesn't seem to bother with Jon's bloodline, meaning that he can still be either Lyanna's or Ned's.

At any rate, do we know how the Valyrians in general tamed the dragons? I just checked the Wiki and it says that they just raised them, rather than did anything else. In which case Dany's inability to control her "children" might not be due to a lack of warging abilities, but due to the fact that she has 3 potentially lethal fire-spewing critters to contend with, as opposed to just one. Perhaps a process of bonding took place between rider and dragon, so who knows?

That said, everybody and their mom on Valyria had dragons, considering that even house Targaryen was a minor house of no consequence with their legacy of dragons.

Does it say anything about incest in old Valyria? Maybe the people of old Valyria were all wargs and since there was no one else of Valyria to mate with, Aegon chose to marry his sisters to insure that their children retained the ability.

Honestly, why does he keep reminding us that Jon and Arya are both wargs if he doesn't have big plans for it?

[mindchap]

I don't remember seeing a single hint that Sansa is a warg much less a powerfull one.

I think that's a comment that Martin made out of book. But I'm not entirely certain

[Syphon the Sanitator]

Small addition found in the page on the Freehold:

The Valyrians tamed the dragons with magic and mastered the technique of raising and training the dragons into devastating weapons of war.[1]

As for your comment, Versiroth, here's a little gem:

The practice of incest was common in old Valyria ^[16] the Valyrians would customarily wed brother to sister. ^[11] On Dragonstone the Targaryens continued to practice incestuous marriage (and polygamy), to keep their blood of the dragon bloodline pure.

Nothing necessarily points at the reason for this being warging, though.

[Rhaegarsjoy]

I think that's a comment that Martin made out of book. But I'm not entirely certain

Didn't see that I'm only going by wat I've seen in the books.

How well can you control a two or three year old child? That's a two-legged slobber box, these are four-legged lizards that breathe fire and have blood that's hot enough to burn skin, only two things can tame them, time, or magic. The Valyrians

controlled their dragons with sorcery.

Didn't the dragons only behave/ or were calmed when Dany was present and only became wild when Drogon started living in the wild n the other two were chained in a dark cell?

[Versiroth]

How well can you control a two or three year old child? That's a two-legged slobber box, these are four-legged lizards that breathe fire and have blood that's hot enough to burn skin, only two things can tame them, time, or magic. The Valyrians

controlled their dragons with sorcery.

Well, since Dany doesn't really have time or sorcery on her side, what's to become of the three dragons? I just have this feeling that I'm right.... it just makes too much sense.

Harry Potter Spoilers...

I had the same feeling when I posted on a HP board after book 6 that Harry was a Horcrux and people called me mad. Well, we know how that turned out. :box:

[Versiroth]

Didn't see that I'm only going by wat I've seen in the books.

Didn't the dragons only behave/ or were calmed when Dany was present and only became wild when Drogon started living in the wild n the other two were chained in a dark cell?

All through out ADwD, GRRM seemed to want to inform us that Dany didn't really have any control over the dragons. And thanks for those snippets Syphon. Though I still believe warging would be the perfect method to control and link a beast like this to ones self. Again, Varamyr was able to control even hostle animals through warging.

[mrunderhill]

All through out ADwD, GRRM seemed to want to inform us that Dany didn't really have any control over the dragons. And thanks for those snippets Syphon. Though I still believe warging would be the perfect method to control and link a beast like this to you. Again, Varamyr was able to control even hostle animals through warging.

A Targ seems to only be able to control one dragon. I don't think warging works on dragons, because Targs have a special bond with them. Drogon seems to be Dany's but that does not mean the other two are hers to control. Even Aegon the Conqueror could only ride his dragon. If any one else rides Dany's dragons they will probably be people with Targ blood.

[mindchap]

Didn't the dragons only behave/ or were calmed when Dany was present and only became wild when Drogon started living in the wild n the other two were chained in a dark cell?

Which brings us back to my first comment up there, maybe Dany is a warg.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

You know, Versiroth, I've been thinking.

Your arguement hinges on whether warging is hereditary or not. And that is not known, sadly.

There's the six Stark children, there's Bloodraven, Orell and Varamyr that we've seen, and then there's the mentions of Haggon, Borroq, Briar, and Grisella. These are all the known wargs right now. There's one thing that bothers me, though.

If warging is hereditary, wouldn't there have been some incest in the recent history of the Starks to account for the sheer number of wargs in this generation?

Also, if marrying your kin guarantees or increases the chance on being able to warg, it would account for the practice, but we don't have a time on when the practice started in Valyria.

[yolkboy]

Which brings us back to my first comment up there, maybe Dany is a warg.

I don't know of anyone in the story to have been a warg,that didn't have a good dose of blood of the first men in their veins.

what 'hint' do you have that Dany is a warg?

[PatrickStormborn]

We all assume the new three headed dragon will center around Dany, because they hatched for her, but what if it ends up being centered around Jon?

I stopped reading at this point (although I did also catch that you want Dany to be Nissa Nissa). I don't subscribe to any theory which involves erasing Dany from the narrative so that Jon, a cisgender heterosexual able-bodied white young male, can be the main hero of the story. That's already the plot of every other fantasy novel...

[Sun]

One of these dragons will be warged, most likely by Bran. I'm willing to bet on it.

[mindchap]

I don't know of anyone in the story to have been a warg,that didn't have a good dose of blood of the first men in their veins.

what 'hint' do you have that Dany is a warg?

When Drogon is stabbed in the pit in Mereen, "Dany and Drogon screamed as one". Nothing definite, just a comment.