Growing Cold Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Judging by the combination of the discussion on NeoGaf and the specualtion among the TWOP unsullied, the show seems to have done a godo job with forshadowing the Red Wedding. At NeoGaf they have no idea what the climax is gonna be, while the TWOP's have pretty much figured out the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachoGrande Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I think this whole RW-thing gets way overblown. So many bookreaders constantly going "Omg something so shocking is going to happen you will throw your remote at the screen!! oh sweet summer child!!" since the beginning of the season has led many who are even remotely in touch with GoT-coverage (e.g. internet, reviews, or just eager bookreader-friens) to become suspicious and quite hyped up. The surprise is going to be less surprising if you actually know that there is a surprise on the way (and are therefore expecting one). This is also the reason that Ned's death was so shocking at that time - no one saw it coming and there wasn't this whole mystique about it.I am not saying the RW is going to be unsurpising for everyone (many of the pure casual viewers are going to be shocked for certain), but I think the whole thing would have benefitted from more restraint. Hell, the way some bookreaders are hyping it up and being overtly "mysterious" - to the point of almost boasting about it -, you would whink they have written the scene themselves or that half of the characters are going to die...Complaints about Deus Ex Vagina were similar in nature - I've seen many comments on TWOP which basically said that GRRM didn't know to deal with Renly's 100k army and make Stannis a threat, so he used "the smokey" to solve that problem in one lame move.GRRM wouldn't have let Renly become such a powerful opponent to Stannis if he hadn't already thought of a way to get rid of him. Since I firmly believe that he plans all important elements of his story well ahead (which is evident from the large amount of foreshadowing in the books as well as from his own statements in interviews) I completely reject the image of Martin going "Oh crap, I've completely forgotten that Stannis is supposed to actually defeat his brother and his oversized army. I better think of a way now lol" while writing. So it was never really Deus Ex Machina in this cheap-asspull-sense for me.But I can understand the reaction of non-readers, since the show dind't do a good job of establishing the cost of Mel's magic at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybvep Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 This is also the reason that Ned's death was so shocking at that time - no one saw it comingSome of the Unsullied were predicting Ned's death halfway through the season.GRRM wouldn't have let Renly become such a powerful opponent to Stannis if he hadn't already thought of a way to get rid of him. Since I firmly believe that he plans all important elements of his story well ahead (which is evident from the large amount of foreshadowing in the books as well as from his own statements in interviews) I completely reject the image of Martin going "Oh crap, I've completely forgotten that Stannis is supposed to actually defeat his brother and his oversized army. I better think of a way now lol" while writing. So it was never really Deus Ex Machina in this cheap-asspull-sense for me.Maybe, maybe not. Anyway, for many, this FELT like an ass-pull. The whole shadowbabies thingy is still very dubious even by book 5. For me, as a bookwalker, it was a negative WTF moment and it seems that many people on this forum feel the same.Also, while I believe that GRRM planned many (but not all) important elements of the story well in advance, it doesn't mean that he always presents or introduces them in a way which is satisfying or engaging to the readers. Many bookwalkers don't like the fact that fAegon was introduced only in book 5, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Revenge Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I came across an interesting discussion the unsullied were having where they were wondering why the dothraki and some people from Qarth called him Jorah the Andal. I found this pretty interesting as the Mormonts are no Andals, but have the blood of the first men in their veins. Does this mean that people from Essos just call everyone from Westeros Andals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Revenge Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Some of the Unsullied were predicting Ned's death halfway through the season. Nothing amazing there, he was played by Sean Bean after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzer Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I have to say, now that the season's nearing the end, that I'm a bit... stunned? That the TWoP didn't make much more of Roose letting Jaime go and telling Jaime to offer greetings to Tywin. I zoomed in on TWoP after that aired, expecting 'What??' Wait, Bolton did what?? Oh, crap, traitor!!' There was a bit of discussion, but nothing like the lengthy 'what will this mean' discussions I'd expected. The only explanation I can think of is that they've had Robb so solidly in the dead zone for so long now that this just seemed a natural progression. Another explanation--the show has sooo underplayed Roose (too underplayed Roose, IMO) that he was only ever perceived by non-bookwalkers as 'that guy' in Robb's camp. Whichever, it just surprised me, their lack of response.ETA: For some, anyway, the sense of dread is absolutely there. :uhoh:I don't think he was underplayed, quite the contrary. It's very clear he has already betrayed Robb, and I've seen many other Unsullied and even some professional reviewers that noticed that. The TWOP have been calling Roose a possible traitor since they saw his sigil back in season 2. Most of them were convinced that his bastard destroyed Winterfell before season 3 even started.Sorry for answering this just now. My 3-day suspension has just been lifted B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybvep Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I don't think he was underplayed, quite the contrary. It's very clear he has already betrayed Robb, and I've seen many other Unsullied and even some professional reviewers that noticed that. The TWOP have been calling Roose a possible traitor since they saw his sigil back in season 2. Most of them were convinced that his bastard destroyed Winterfell before season 3 even started.True. People identified Roose as a potential traitor early on, figuring out that a creepy leader of a House which flays its enemies and who resides in a city called The Dreadfort cannot be up to anything good ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 It could be a very tightly focused episode. I would be very impressed if they decided to cut KL from the episode. Sadly I don't think that Sansa fits the Stark theme for the show anymore...Well they could always tie her into Robb and Cat getting the news of her wedding and hopefully Robb naming Jon his heir as a result. I really don't see them cutting KL completely but we'll see.Talking of Robb's will i do really hope we get this. I'm holding out hope that they're leaving it out till the last minute so as not to telegraph his death. Have the will (a sure sign that a character is about die) a couple episodes before hand and it's bound to clue people in. In the same episode as the death there's less time to digest it and figure out the foreshadowing and if you do you'll probably be led to believe it'll be in a few episodes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybvep Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Why would Robb make Jon his heir if Talisa is pregnant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I came across an interesting discussion the unsullied were having where they were wondering why the dothraki and some people from Qarth called him Jorah the Andal. I found this pretty interesting as the Mormonts are no Andals, but have the blood of the first men in their veins. Does this mean that people from Essos just call everyone from Westeros Andals?I think it's just a Dothraki thing, because the Qartheens and Ghiscari all refer to Dany & Jorah as "Westerosi". As usual certain TWoPers are reading too much into it, but don't we often do the same thing with the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebevan91 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Why would Robb make Jon his heir if Talisa is pregnant?Because Sansa would come after any child of Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Sorry for answering this just now. My 3-day suspension has just been lifted B)haha, I wondered where you went! How did you 'earn' 3 days? I only ever got suspended for 1 day (and I earned it--being over-served on wine late one night and posting nasty poems about members here. Ran was not amused...) :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Why would Robb make Jon his heir if Talisa is pregnant?I highly doubt it. But mostly I think it is irrelevant, because I'd be truly surprised if the show even goes there. I don't expect to see or hear anything about a will, especially now that Talisa is pregnant.ETA: misunderstood the question.ebevan91 answers it more appropriately:Because Sansa would come after any child of Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzer Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 haha, I wondered where you went! How did you 'earn' 3 days? I only ever got suspended for 1 day (and I earned it--being over-served on wine late one night and posting nasty poems about members here. Ran was not amused...) :PI said in another thread that it would've been more interesting if Ramsay had found and married the real Arya instead of Jeyne Poole, but it was my detailed explanation to why it would be interesting that got me suspended ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybvep Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Because Sansa would come after any child of Robb.If Jon dies, Sansa still becomes Lady of Winterfell. In the books, we hear nothing about Jeyne's pregnancy, only that they are "trying every day". In the show, Talisa explicitly states that she is pregnant, so Robb is expecting an heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I said in another thread that it would've been more interesting if Ramsay had found and married the real Arya instead of Jeyne Poole, but it was my detailed explanation to why it would be interesting that got me suspended ^_^hmmm, a mystery... anyway, glad you're back in time for the big night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzer Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 hmmm, a mystery... anyway, glad you're back in time for the big night!Well, you can see it here and in the following posts. I should've seen the suspension coming :lol:But yeah, I'm glad I made it in time for the RW. My suspension couldn't have had a better timing B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Union Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Well, you can see it here and in the following posts. I should've seen the suspension coming :lol:But yeah, I'm glad I made it in time for the RW. My suspension couldn't have had a better timing B)You were suspended for that? That doesnt seem that bad at all! And it was in a thread for unpopular opinions!ETA: Ooops, must have read the wrong post, it's fairly bad. :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If Jon dies, Sansa still becomes Lady of Winterfell. In the books, we hear nothing about Jeyne's pregnancy, only that they are "trying every day". In the show, Talisa explicitly states that she is pregnant, so Robb is expecting an heir.I still don't see why Robb can't name Jon his heir after the child. A still-developing fetus during the midst of a war is hardly a certain thing, it would make perfect sense for Robb to want one more barrier between the Lannisters getting Winterfell through Sansa.It obviously depends on how important Robb's Will becomes. I'm leaning towards very but who knows. D+D probably know more than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzer Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 You were suspended for that? That doesnt seem that bad at all! And it was in a thread for unpopular opinions!I think the post that got me banned was deleted. I remember writing a whole paragraph and it was much darker than that :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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