They Called Him Kingmaker

[Third Tail of the Dragon]

I was re-reading the long meandering Riverlands storyline in AFFC and ADWD which doesn't really seem to going anywhere, and I started wondering if that was actually true. First off, it's GRRM. When does anything happen like one expects? Second, Jamie Lannister is potentially an extremely powerful player in the game of thrones. Not only those he have a permanent seat on the small council, a close blood relation to the king, a position in charge of the king's security at the time when whoever has possession of the king controls the kingdom, and the ability to order around Loras Tyrell and Robert Strong, but his chapters make it clear he is actually pretty decent at the game and dealing with lords when he wants to be. Add to that his gifts as a natural leader of soldiers and as a general mean that the swords of House Lannister follow him, not Cersei, and his confidence in AFFC that he could push Cersei aside seem well-founded. Even Kevan, who otherwise seemed to be getting things under control was worried about if he could handle Jaime when he got back.

GRRM's also been really developing him as a character. He does thing for people he loves, which at one point included Cersei and Tyrion but at this point seems to be Tommen, Myrcella, and Brienne, though he is also willing to go to some lengths the protect the smallfolk and worries about their lack of food. We've found that he idolizes Arthur Dayne, is haunted by his failure to keep his promise to Prince Rhaegar to keep his children safe, and doesn't consider Robert to have been a true king. He's willing to seize power to prevent Cersei's misrule from dooming Tommen, but even a lifetime spent around Tywin, Aerys, and Robert hasn't caused him to realize power is the way to happiness, and wonders whether Tommen would rather have a crown or a father. Ironically, he even worries about the reputation of the kingsguard and the oaths he swore. Has GRRM really spent all this time establishing his power and motivations just to kill him off in a way that contributes nothing to the story?

Two other questions occurred to me after thinking about this. First, where is Brienne planning to meeting the BWB at to exchange Jaime for Podrick? The BWB thinks Brienne is a treacherous Lannister agent; they are not going to set a meeting place where Brienne can bring a Lannister army. It was mentioned in AFFC that the BWB sometimes take shelter in marshes with the Crannogmen. Howland Reed has to show up in the story at some point, and if Jamie meets him to you think Jaime is going to pass up the chance ask about his idol Arthur Dayne's last fight? Secondly, what will Jaime do if he makes it back to King's Landing and finds out that Danaerys has taken over Slaver's Bay and intends eventually to turn his children into Dragonfood? We saw what he did at Riverrun when he had a problem with the Blackfish; he put his still hostile but less dangerous nephew in charge.

Goldenhand is one of the only living characters who would know if Rhaegar ever got Aerys to agree that any children of Lyanna's would be legitimate. Of course, before he could strike a deal with Jon Snow to pardon, legitimize, and protect Tommen and Myrcella Lannister from dragons in exchange for finally getting the Iron Throne fully committed in the effort against the Others, Jaime would need to escape the Brotherhood and I don't know how he would do that. Maybe Bran could decide the realm needs living Jon more than revenge on every last Frey, and tip off the Lannister scouts to the Brotherhood's location, and then Jaime could make the Brotherhood take black, bringing Stoneheart to the wall to resurrect Jon Snow? Bringing together a bunch of storylines and ending the various plots hatched through Westeros by a spanner in the works even master players like Littlefinger and Varys couldn't seem coming hasn't been Martin modus operandi in the past couple of years, but there are only two books left. What do you guy's think? Plausible or not?

[The Lady Lannister]

Welcome OP!

I agree with a lot of what you are saying and hope you are right in that Jaime lives to do some good. It would also be very surprising if the BWB trusted someone they considered "a Lannister whore".

The only thing I would say is that Lady Stoneheart would NEVER resurrect Jon Snow.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Also if the BWB took the Black why would LS be going up there she can't take the black.

[Runaway Penguin]

LS will not resurrect Jon snow. Too much time and all the bad stuff connected with by now third-hand fire.

[LordStoneheart]

Did you type this whole thing with one hand? The Jaime-love is intense.

But I disagree that Jaime can factor in anyway with Jon being legitimate if he is in fact Rhaegar's son. And there's no way he will be able to negotiate with the BWB. If Brienne leads him there, he's dying. His redemption arc and good deeds he wants to write down in the knightbook will be unfulfilled.

Does it not strike you that the more likable and 'good' the author makes Jaime, the more likely his death sentence is made?

Also, its pretty clear that Bran can't really communicate from the Weirwood, and even if he could I doubt he'd give up his own mother's ragtag army even in the state she's in.

[Castellan]

I haven't read the whole thing (yet) but I have to say that the best indication Jaime may play a role in kingmaking is when he reads the white book and thinks about how he can write his own future, and points out the role The Kingmaker played to Loras.

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

I wouldn't be surprised if Jaime did somehow change sides, especially if he really knew what Cercei had Qyburn doing in the black cells, however just about everything else you said I disagree with. No way Bran tips him off, no way LS brings back Jon, she wouldn't piss on Jon if he were on fire.

[Third Tail of the Dragon]

Yeah, on second thought the idea of LS resurrecting Jon Snow doesn't fit with her character at all, even if she did learn he wasn't Ned's bastard. Does the BWB setting up the meeting with Brienne in the neck still seem plausible though, and would Howland Reed show up? Or is there another POV that Howland is likely to appear in?

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

Yeah, on second thought the idea of LS resurrecting Jon Snow doesn't fit with her character at all, even if she did learn he wasn't Ned's bastard. Does the BWB setting up the meeting with Brienne in the neck still seem plausible though, and would Howland Reed show up? Or is there another POV that Howland is likely to appear in?

I definately think that the BWB wants Jaime for more than just an execution. We already know they're planning something inside Riverrun, and so Jaime would be the perfect Trojan Horse to really put some sort of revenge plan in motion on the Freys. Whether he does it willingly, I couldn't tell you. GRRM has done a masterfull job turning Jaime's character 170 degrees, but it remains to be seen if he'll turn him the other 10. I also remember Jaime's recurring dream about Brienne, about them facing some sort of danger in the dark together, so the two of them still have a part to play in the coming war against the Others I think.

As for Howland Reed, he seems destined to show up at some point. After all he's the only person we know to be alive who can shed more light on the Tower of Joy, possibly R+L=J, plus GRRM never shuts up about him despite the fact we've never actually met him. Generally when George wont let you forget something its for a purpose right? Anyway, I don't know if I like the Idea of him being involved in the BWB storyline, don't see how that fits, but you're right the Neck is the most likely place to find him. However, I liked the idea I saw in another thread of Howland being the Hooded Man who was killing Ramsey's men in WF. It makes sense, he and Ned were very close, and he knew his children were in WF when the Bastard put it to the torch. I could easily see him traveling there as soon as he heard the news in order to find them, then deciding to set the Bolton host against each other when they set up this sham wedding. This would also put him right where he needs to be to at somepoint meet Jon and tell him about his true parentage. We don't have a POV in WF right now, so it wouldn't surprise me if this were true, we might get a one off POV chapter from him. Until I saw that thread, I was still leaning towards the Blackfish being the HM, but I think Im swayed.

[Northbound]

Nice post OP, you have brought up some wonderful thoughts. Like a good portion of people on here, I do not see Jamie; just being killed right away by the BWB. I hated Jamie, for good reason during the first two books. Since then, he has gone through some serious changes. I do not think he will ever be a truly "good" character, but he is being set up to be a part of a lot moving pieces.

-The idea that the meet could occur in the Neck and then running in to Howland Reed, is very interesting. Especially if the ToJ incident is brought up. But I really doubt Howland would give up to much info to a Lannister.

-I persoanlly think Jamie, will end up helping the BWB bleed the Freys. Maybe at another wedding?

-As for LS bringing back Jon, with the "Kiss"....that isn't going to happen. The more likely outcome will be, that Jon is brought back via a blood sacrifice; when Stannis takes Theon's head in the Godswood at Winterfell.

[First of My Name]

Stoneheart is incapable of resurrecting Jon. Is she a red priest? Is she capable of any form of magic at all? Can she peform the kiss?

[I am a bastard's bastard]

Stoneheart is incapable of resurrecting Jon. Is she a red priest? Is she capable of any form of magic at all? Can she peform the kiss?

no but neither was beric and he gave the kiss to catelyn