You think Benjen knows/knew Jon is not Ned's bastard?

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

I think it's plausible that he put it together, but I can't see Ned actually telling him.

i actually see him putting it together and confronting Ned about the truth and then Ned confirms it to him.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Probably. In any case, he's still Jon's uncle.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

i actually see him putting it together and confronting Ned about the truth and then Ned confirms it to him.

That's possible, sure. But Ned just telling him of his own volition, unprompted, that I don't see.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

That's possible, sure. But Ned just telling him of his own volition, unprompted, that I don't see.

yes i agree

[DavosSeaworthy]

If I were a betting man, I'd bet on him knowing. I don't think it had anything to do with him joining the Nights Watch, but I think he knew.

[Melpomene]

If he wasn't told, I bet he did eventually clue in fairly reasonably. Lyanna and Rhaegar together, Lyanna dying under unknown circumstances in a secret isolated place, baby suddenly shows up at Winterfell, Benjen knowing his brother more than anyone and comprehends that Ned is too honourable to cheat on his new wife.

Not only do they look alike, but Jon and Lyanna even act very alike. Both equestrians, good with swords, "Iron Will", brave and stubborn. They are also both technically outsiders - Jon being excluded from the usual noble-son activities and duties because he is a bastard, Lyanna because of her gender.

Of course, it isn't unusual that nephews and nieces to act more like their aunts and uncles than they do their own parents, even Arya acts more like Lyanna, but to someone like Benjen....it could be worth noting seriously. He is obviously observant, calm and intelligent.

For this part, Benjen likely wouldn't have known the connection, but Lyanna was taken by a man in red, and Jon was wooed by a girl with red hair.

If Benjen was told, it wouldn't be too out there. Lyanna might have included both her last brothers in the promise. "Promise me, Ned....and don't forget to tell Bennie, and to make sure he kept things under tabs too..!" If Brandon was still around she probably wouldn't, but Benjen and Ned were both big introverted softies.

If not that entirely, Ned could have told Benjen for deep sentimental reasons. Benjen became his only surviving sibling, and his only surviving blood family from his youth and childhood. He might not desire to keep something so dark and dire away from him. Additionally, perhaps Ned thought he needed a very trusting person to watch over Jon or conduct the information in case something bad did suddenly happen to him. Ned wasn't going to last forever, and there is a risk of dying suddenly. Benjen was also bound by oath and was far away, leading him away from being a major suspect and away from political games. Of course, Ned does die very suddenly and tragically, and around the same time Benjen disapears, leaving the whole thing on limbo.

It is a long shot, but why not mention. Benjen never being told is quite plausible as is. If Ned didn't tell the rest of his own wife and children, then there is a chance that he didn't tell his brother either, for a variety of other reasons.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

It would be very hard for Ned to tell no one, Ned would need someone with easy access to Jon if things, shaped up in a way that the truth needed to come out. Benjen fits the bill.

[Dr.Santa]

I think Benjen knows somethings up with Ned and Jon. But only Howland Reed and Ned know, maybe BloodRaven. Then again Jojen might know too because he has said he has seen Roberts rebellion. If he's not plant food.

[bemused]

Yes , I think he knew. I think joining the NW might be connected ...especially if he played a part in bringing R and L together... But there may have been other reasons as well ,depending on how soap opera-ish the whole scene with the Stark and Ryswell siblings actually was.

I have a suspicion it may actually have been Brandon and Bethany that were an item ( hence Domeric's riding being compared by Roose to Lyanna's when there could never have been a direct comparison.. which was probably one of the nails in Domeric's coffin ) ..and Benjen and Barbrey might actually have been closer in age and well enough acquainted for a flirtation to ensue.. After all, Ned was fostered in the Vale , and might not have been home all that much.... but I don't think Lord Ryswell would have considered a marriage to the third Stark son as advantageous as the Dustin heir.

[Oblivian]

Benjen knew, he likely figured it out on his own, like most people on the Internet. And I suspect he told Mormont, too. Benjen probably didn't want Jon to take his vows without knowing his true heritage, so he told the Old Bear the truth. But Mormont was so desperate for decent leadership, and his family thinks highly of Rhaegar, so he wanted Rhaegar's son in the Watch, and to one day lead it. So when Benjen disappeared, the Old Bear held back the truth.

[Dany Girl]

That's possible, sure. But Ned just telling him of his own volition, unprompted, that I don't see.

I agree. IF Benjen knows it's because he figured it out, confronted Ned, and Ned was too honorable to outright lie to his brother. Passing it off as, "he's my blood, that's all you need to know" wouldn't work on Ben like it did on Cat. Plus, Ned would believe his brother deserved to know if he figured it out. Ben would be the only person that Ned would trust because if something ever happened to Ned it would be up to Ben to keep Jon safe. Cat would most likely kick him out (as would all noble wives). Ben would need to tell Jon the truth and keep him safe.

Doesn't Ben make a comment about needing to speak with Jon once he returns? Or was that just Ned?

[James March]

Most argumentations in favour of it are pretty reasonable. Yet it sucks if Benjen is dead/lost and he knew of Jon's real father/mother. :bang:

[Toshio.Keepiru]

If he does know it's as previous posters have suggested he figured it out and Ned being honorable and Benjen being family by blood decided to trust Benjen when asked about Jon. Assuming that theory is true (and I think the evidence in favor is compelling)

[DireMaker]

I like it, I am sure Benjen himself, the man in black, if you will. Has the ability to see the obvious, I mean, it was his family after all. However think of what happens at the wall, while Benjen and Jon are there. He is trying to help Jon become a man. And staying with the "Old Bear" all the time. Possibly his parentage was discussed with Mormont and Benjen wanted to tell him, but Mormont forbade it. That may count for him "shunning" Jon. And then he goes out on a ranging and never comes back, but they do find some of his party. And i beleive they turn to wights and such..... Benjen is not dead, IMHO, rather waiting 'till the time is right. I mean SOMEONE put the obsidian in a place where it could be easily dug up, and right where the NW made thier first stand against the wights/Others. I think Benjen had another purpose to his ranging, possibly to find that horn he buried, there at the Fist? :dunno: Where the man is now, only BR knows....

[antipattern]

Ned swore to tell no one. Let me repeat: Ned swore to tell no one. Ned Stark. He was presented unambiguously as a guy who would never break an oath like that. So if he swore to tell no one, he told no one. And it also seems that GRRM went out of his way to communicate that only Howland Reed knows, which he wouldn't bother to do if some one else was going to figure it out.

[James March]

Ned swore to tell no one. Let me repeat: Ned swore to tell no one. Ned Stark. He was presented unambiguously as a guy who would never break an oath like that. So if he swore to tell no one, he told no one. And it also seems that GRRM went out of his way to communicate that only Howland Reed knows, which he wouldn't bother to do if some one else was going to figure it out.

You're fairly right.

But the impression I've had of Ned is that he is the kind of guy who can be described as an axiomatic.

Rule: his honour prevents himself from telling lies in principle

- first rule can be broken by higher value vow, because loyalty to vows is honour matter

- first rule can be sometimes be [almost] honourably circumvented by "telling nothing" and letting people "make their own (wrong) assumptions" on the matter. Ned is not required to correct the wrong beliefs of each and every guy surrounding him by telling them the truth without being asked.

- first rule can sometimes be broken if for a greater good like saving the life of an innocent child or puppy -> aka John, aka Nymeria (see his words to Arya)

If by chance Benjen Stark jumped at the conclusion that Jon Snow is Lyanna's son and asserted that to Ned Stark, the latter would have had no honourable way to hide the truth. Notice that Ned Stark does never explicitly lie in regards to Jon Snow origins, he does only not speak of those origins and exploit the confusion and the spread of different rumours to avoid the topic.

So, I don't agree with you. Though I believe this is just my opinion, GRRM may think otherwise.

[Sonnet]

I believe Benjen knows. I am a firm believer in L+R= J, and I think Ned would have told Benjen as Lyanna was his sister too and he would know Benjen would protect Jon's secret as fiercely as Ned. I also think Ned would have felt Benjen needed to know because of the love they both had for had for their sister. This would explain Benjens attention to Jon when he visited Winterfell. I think this may have contributed to Benjen joining the Nights Watch, where he might be forgotten.

[Andrés Garcia]

There's not much evidence to go on, but I like to think he knows. If he just managed to figure out that Lyanna is the mother, it wouldn't be that difficult to figure out who the father was. I doubt Eddard ever needed to tell him.

[antipattern]

You're fairly right.

But the impression I've had of Ned is that he is the kind of guy who can be described as an axiomatic.

Rule: his honour prevents himself from telling lies in principle

- first rule can be broken by higher value vow, because loyalty to vows is honour matter

- first rule can be sometimes be [almost] honourably circumvented by "telling nothing" and letting people "make their own (wrong) assumptions" on the matter. Ned is not required to correct the wrong beliefs of each and every guy surrounding him by telling them the truth without being asked.

- first rule can sometimes be broken if for a greater good like saving the life of an innocent child or puppy -> aka John, aka Nymeria (see his words to Arya)

If by chance Benjen Stark jumped at the conclusion that Jon Snow is Lyanna's son and asserted that to Ned Stark, the latter would have had no honourable way to hide the truth. Notice that Ned Stark does never explicitly lie in regards to Jon Snow origins, he does only not speak of those origins and exploit the confusion and the spread of different rumours to avoid the topic.

So, I don't agree with you. Though I believe this is just my opinion, GRRM may think otherwise.

I agree that such a conversation between Benjen and Ned sounds like something that could realistically happen. But that's true of an infinite amount of other things, too. The ones that "actually" happen are the ones that are shown happening in the book. When events exist only on this message board, without a trace of evidence in the book, I feel like they're probably just fan fiction.

[James March]

I agree that such a conversation between Benjen and Ned sounds like something that could realistically happen. But that's true of an infinite amount of other things, too. The ones that "actually" happen are the ones that are shown happening in the book. When events exist only on this message board, without a trace of evidence in the book, I feel like they're probably just fan fiction.

I agree with you :)