Cas Stark Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Secretly killing them and covering it up isn't the same thing as openly turn on them in the middle of the battle. It would have been the same as if at the feast Manderly would have said "oh btw you are actually eating the Freys, lol". Also, Manderly is at Winterfell and grievely wounded, so I don't think that he is in any state to plot betrayal.We don't actually know how wounded he is, only that he got sliced in some of his chins, nor do we know if he is still in Winterfell. But, even if he is in Winterfell, if his men have a chance to turn on the Freys in battle, why wouldn't they? Roose is keeping his own men inside Winterfell. He's sending out Freys and Manderley men...so, whose going to prove what happened in the heat of battle? If the Frey army happens to end up all dead, well, that would be too bad, how would it be proven that Manderly did it? Very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryrulz Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Boltons die...it is KnOwN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father of Hosts Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I think it is E-Ro who has been the main proponent of that theory- If anyone is interested, Google "Alexander Nevsky."ETA: HereETA 2: And here.Thanks. And poor E-Ro. The GNC offers some insight into what may possibly happen with Stannis, if anyone is interested. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/77828-the-great-northern-conspiracy-reexamined/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Dead Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Asha will be a key factor in Stannis' battle, I can feel it in my Greyjoy bones. If you've read the Theon chapter from tWoW, there are subtle hints of Asha planning an ambush against Stannis to save Theon.ETA:Thanks. And poor E-Ro.The GNC offers some insight into what may possibly happen with Stannis, if anyone is interested.http://asoiaf.wester...acy-reexamined/Where is E-Ro, btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
three-eyed monkey Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'm sure Stannis will win the coming battle with use of the lake and some help from the Manderlys, and he might even get his army into WF disguised as Freys, but I'm not so sure the GNC will suffer him for long. If they are planning on executing Robb's will and naming a new KitN, then they must know that Stannis is going to be an obstacle. They must have made provision for him in their plan (if they have one, which I'm convinced they do) ever since he turned up at Easwatch. I like Stannis but I fear for him. He's only got a few thousand of his own men and we can't be sure Lord Manderly was entirely truthful with Davos.Seeing how this plays out is one of the things I'm looking forward to most in Winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father of Hosts Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 ETA:Where is E-Ro, btw?E-Ro was banned. :frown5: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon of the Dead Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 E-Ro was banned. :frown5:Really?? Why? :dunce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father of Hosts Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Really?? Why? :dunce:I PM'ed you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachoGrande Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 We don't actually know how wounded he is, only that he got sliced in some of his chins, nor do we know if he is still in Winterfell. But, even if he is in Winterfell, if his men have a chance to turn on the Freys in battle, why wouldn't they?As I said I think Manderley is playing it safe. So even if he is with his own troops commanding them, I doubt that he will switch sides. First, because Stannis men are still in a disadvantage even with Manderley's help I think (but I don't know how many Frey and Ramsay men there are). Second, even if Manderley should decide to side with Stannis, Bolton would stil bel behind Winterfell's strong walls with 5000 men who are warm and well fed. I think Manderley would see that Stannis is at a disadvantage no matter what right now, so he wouldn't risk joining him.And if Manderley is still at Winterfell, I doubt whoever is commanding his men will switch sides, because Manderley would become a hostage - except if he can keep his betrayal hidden, but...He's sending out Freys and Manderley men...so, whose going to prove what happened in the heat of battle? If the Frey army happens to end up all dead, well, that would be too bad, how would it be proven that Manderly did it? Very difficult.So you mean the Manderley army would be showing up outside of Winterfell, claiming that all the Freys ended up dead (as well as Ramsay) but somehow the main part of the Manderley men survived and could defeat Stannis? I don't think Roose Bolton would buy that, given that he already knows of Manderley's uncertain loyality. Also, I'm sure they would have to offer proof in some way that Stannis is dead.So yeah, I don't think the scenario of MAnderley turning is as certain as people make it out to be. But it could happen if those above mentioned points are explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
three-eyed monkey Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 As I said I think Manderley is playing it safe. So even if he is with his own troops commanding them, I doubt that he will switch sides. First, because Stannis men are still in a disadvantage even with Manderley's help I think (but I don't know how many Frey and Ramsay men there are). Second, even if Manderley should decide to side with Stannis, Bolton would stil bel behind Winterfell's strong walls with 5000 men who are warm and well fed. I think Manderley would see that Stannis is at a disadvantage no matter what right now, so he wouldn't risk joining him.And if Manderley is still at Winterfell, I doubt whoever is commanding his men will switch sides, because Manderley would become a hostage - except if he can keep his betrayal hidden, but...So you mean the Manderley army would be showing up outside of Winterfell, claiming that all the Freys ended up dead (as well as Ramsay) but somehow the main part of the Manderley men survived and could defeat Stannis? I don't think Roose Bolton would buy that, given that he already knows of Manderley's uncertain loyality. Also, I'm sure they would have to offer proof in some way that Stannis is dead.So yeah, I don't think the scenario of MAnderley turning is as certain as people make it out to be. But it could happen if those above mentioned points are explained.It's not out of the question. Depends on how much you buy into the GNC.Stannis draws they Frey's onto the frozen lake, which breaks, and Manderlys come up on the rest from the rear.Stannis and Manderlys combine their strenght to take out Ramsay.Manderlys return to WF with Stannis' men disguised as Boltons and Freys, maybe even Ramsay himself. He already rode in there in his armour and took it from Theon, but this time there would be echoes of Renly's Ghost, sort of.Then once they come through the gate, Whoresbane and other GNC turn on Roose.Leaving Stannis surrounded by Northmen, who may or may not extend a nice cold northern welcome for him??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 E-Ro was banned. :frown5:I thought he was just suspended! This is very sad to hear. And I think Stannis will decisively win this battle. For many of the reasons already mentioned. It's clear he has something planned regarding the ice and the footing of the terrain to turn the battle in his favor, and seeing as he's already at such a disadvantage and there's so much foreshadowing towards an unlikely outcome, I have a strong feeling he'll be victorious. I'm actually more frightened for Stannis end game then I am regarding his battle against the Boltons. If Martin has some asshole shit planned for Stannis to get burned to death by Mel or something, I'd much rather him lose the Battle of Winterfell and die kicking some ass. But this is A Song of Ice and Fire, and Martin isn't in the business of making people happy, after all. Still, I do wonder if perhaps the Battle of Ice as Martin has called it might not end differently than most of us our anticipating. It is possible that Stannis and the Boltons share in some sort of mutual destruction, leaving the North in complete disarray, while Jon is reborn as Azor Ahai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Stannis will crush all who oppose him, it is known... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Leek Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I suspect that Wyman is with his men, it read like he only took a flesh wound.I think the situation outside favors Stannis despite his troops being hungry. He has around 5,000 with his own men and the mountain clans, plus a few hundred Umbers, probably a few hundred Karstarks, and probably the (better fed) Manderlys as well. The enemy has maybe half that number, led by the overaggressive Hosteen Frey and Ramsay.It would be a lot tougher for Stannis to take Winterfell barring an inside job, as he doesn't appear to have siege equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Éadaoin Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 He won't, if R'hllor is just. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redviper9 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 He won't, if R'hllor is just.In lieu of the like button: HAR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxspecific Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 How would Asha be able to pull anything over Stannis? She has too few men and he's so damn cautious and aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkie Baelish Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The Battle of Winterfell is the most conflicted I've ever been in regards to the series, because it's either going to lead to Stannis being made into Ramsay's new boots or Roose being barbecued :(That being said, I think Stannis will win, and Ramsay and Roose have a confrontation that leads to Ramsay killing Roose and fleeing to the Dreadfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 House Bolton is doomed, the minute Stannis surrounds Winterfell, the people inside the Castle will turn on Roose. His power in the North died with Tywin and his respect in the North died at the RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maegor the Cuddly Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I think he will. He has a large number of advantages the Boltons lack. Loyalty of men, history of successful battles, a skilled commander and dedicated soldiers, etc. etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxspecific Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The way he conducted affairs like an utter boss in the TWOW chapter. Damn, he's gonna win this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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