Changes that shouldn't have been made on the show - Season 1/Book 1

[Dynysia Khaleesi]

I could have sworn I saw a thread like this earlier today but cannot find it, so if someone does find it, would you merge this one with it, por favor.

I have seen seasons 1 and 2, not three and have only gotten through half of the first book. Slow reader. So, if you please, limit your comments to season 1/ book 1.

One thing I noticed in re-watching season 1 and just reading that part in the book recently, Jorah is the one who tells Varys that Dany is pregnant, but in the show, it is Illyrio. That kind of irked me, because here I was thinking Jorah was just misunderstood and he was really a decent guy.

Then, they totally left out Cat's uncle and in the show Tyrion is the one who tells her that her sister is cukoo for cocoa puffs. At first, (since I saw the show before getting to that point in the book) I thought nothing of it, but now it just seems out of place to me.

What changes bothered you between the book and the show?

[Frey-A-La-Mode]

I will say that I saw season 1 first before devouring and redevouring all five books, but looking back, I think I can answer your questions.

1) In the show (as in the books), it is in fact Jorah Mormont that tells the small council about Dany being pregnant. There is a short scene where he is talking about longsword, armor, and the arakh (curved Dothraki swords) with a young Rakharo, and then Irri comes up and says "Khaleesi have baby inside her, she does not bleed for two moons". Jorah has a surprised look on his face, gets up and leaves rather abruptly "I need to ride for Qohor. I'll catch up with you, the horde is easy to find." Then later, at the small council meeting (the one where Ned quits) Varys confirms that Jorah did indeed inform them about Dany's pregnancy, and Ned says "you want us to take the word of a traitor half the world away?" (because it was Ned who charged Jorah with treason/slavetrading, forcing Jorah to flee)

I think I know why you're confused... There is a scene in the show where Arya is chasing cats in the dungeon, and she hides in a dragon skull, and we as viewers know that the two people she overhears are Varys and Illyrio, which I'm assuming happens before the afforementioned small council meeting. In the books, however, it's unclear who those two people are, Varys because he's a master of disguise (something that isn't shown on the show) and Illyrio because, well, Arya would have no reason to know who Illyrio is, only notcing that he's immensely fat. So, there is actually no difference here between the book and the show, except that it's made explicit to the viewers who the two mysterious strangers are that Arya sees, whereas in teh books Arya has no idea who they are (but IIRC she thinks Varys seems vaguely familiar, and can smell his lavender perfume)

2) The reason that they cut Brynden "Blackfish" Tully from the scene you're talking about is that they don't actually introduce his character on the TV show yet. The creators have mentioned that they often will delay characters being introduced because the cast is so large, and they don't want to confuse people who haven't read teh books. As such, they can't afford to have cast members hanging around without anything to do. This will be a recurring pattern throughout the series.

ETA: I will say this. Don't get overly focused on the myriad differences between show and book, because they will pile up. The show follows the major plot points and includes as many characters as possible, usually for practical or budgetary reasons (hence why the direwolves have such a reduced presence on the show). You really just have to treat them as two separate entities. The show really has taken on a life of its own. And of course it goes without saying that the books are better, but damned if I'm not glued to the TV every week, and usually watch the episode again the next day!

[Hiram McDrogon]

I'd recommend just looking through the Season 1 subforum: a lot of the posts are all about how the books are better than the show.

For Episode 1, the thread "The Book Was Better".

For Episode 2, the thread "What Was Left Out, and What Was Left In".

And so on.

And be warned that, while you've been pretty clear that you only want Season 1 discussion, this thread will probably get into spoiler-heavy territory very soon: a lot of people may not notice the restriction.

[YouSnowNothing]

Overall, I think that S1 was a very accurate adaptation, that even made some very effective changes. But if there's one thing that annoyed me, it was Littlefinger telling Sansa the story of Sandor's burns, and not Sandor. That scene was pivotal in the Sandor/Sansa relationship, which was a lot less touching without it. Though I do understand why they butchered it, and many other Sandor/Sansa scenes - they wanted to avoid implications of romance when the age difference between the actors was so obvious.

[protar]

Overall, I think that S1 was a very accurate adaptation, that even made some very effective changes. But if there's one thing that annoyed me, it was Littlefinger telling Sansa the story of Sandor's burns, and not Sandor. That scene was pivotal in the Sandor/Sansa relationship, which was a lot less touching without it. Though I do understand why they butchered it, and many other Sandor/Sansa scenes - they wanted to avoid implications of romance when the age difference between the actors was so obvious.

Actually they were going to have Sandor tell her, but shooting difficulties intervened so the story was shoe-horned in with LF at the last minute.

S1 made three big mistakes in adapting the source material: The addition of Ros, the changes to Shae, and the exclusion of the Tower Of Joy. Aside from that, and probably a few nitpicks I'm forgetting it was pretty much spot on in terms of adaptation.

It would have been interesting had flashbacks to Robert's rebellion been incorporated into the show, maybe even in animated drawing form? It would have been nice had the show felt a bit more epic and artistic and a bit less hollywood imo. But I can see why they took the route the did.

[Dynysia Khaleesi]

I will say that I saw season 1 first before devouring and redevouring all five books, but looking back, I think I can answer your questions.

1) In the show (as in the books), it is in fact Jorah Mormont that tells the small council about Dany being pregnant. There is a short scene where he is talking about longsword, armor, and the arakh (curved Dothraki swords) with a young Rakharo, and then Irri comes up and says "Khaleesi have baby inside her, she does not bleed for two moons". Jorah has a surprised look on his face, gets up and leaves rather abruptly "I need to ride for Qohor. I'll catch up with you, the horde is easy to find." Then later, at the small council meeting (the one where Ned quits) Varys confirms that Jorah did indeed inform them about Dany's pregnancy, and Ned says "you want us to take the word of a traitor half the world away?" (because it was Ned who charged Jorah with treason/slavetrading, forcing Jorah to flee)

I think I know why you're confused... There is a scene in the show where Arya is chasing cats in the dungeon, and she hides in a dragon skull, and we as viewers know that the two people she overhears are Varys and Illyrio, which I'm assuming happens before the afforementioned small council meeting. In the books, however, it's unclear who those two people are, Varys because he's a master of disguise (something that isn't shown on the show) and Illyrio because, well, Arya would have no reason to know who Illyrio is, only notcing that he's immensely fat. So, there is actually no difference here between the book and the show, except that it's made explicit to the viewers who the two mysterious strangers are that Arya sees, whereas in teh books Arya has no idea who they are (but IIRC she thinks Varys seems vaguely familiar, and can smell his lavender perfume)

2) The reason that they cut Brynden "Blackfish" Tully from the scene you're talking about is that they don't actually introduce his character on the TV show yet. The creators have mentioned that they often will delay characters being introduced because the cast is so large, and they don't want to confuse people who haven't read teh books. As such, they can't afford to have cast members hanging around without anything to do. This will be a recurring pattern throughout the series.

ETA: I will say this. Don't get overly focused on the myriad differences between show and book, because they will pile up. The show follows the major plot points and includes as many characters as possible, usually for practical or budgetary reasons (hence why the direwolves have such a reduced presence on the show). You really just have to treat them as two separate entities. The show really has taken on a life of its own. And of course it goes without saying that the books are better, but damned if I'm not glued to the TV every week, and usually watch the episode again the next day!

Yes, I went back and reread that chapter just now, and I had confused the characters. I assumed it was Mormont Varys was talking to because Varys is wearing chainmail and a steel cap, and confused Illyrio for Varys.

[PatrickStormborn]

The biggest and most unforgivable change IMO was stripping Catelyn Stark of basically all her characterisation. She doesn't tell Ned to go south, she doesn't tell Jon "it should have been you", she doesn't try to make Robb bend the knee, etc.

[Pinkie Baelish]

EDIT: This is for season 1 only, my bad.

Well, I can't think of too many changes that were bad in season 1. Perhaps LF telling the Hound's burn story to Sansa, but I can see why they did it, given that they were never going to tease a SanSan romance.

[Weeping Sore]

I hated that they killed Ned on the show. What were D&D thinking making such a big change from the books?

[Broken Fox]

The exclusion of the Tower of Joy, but if it shows up in one of Bran's dreams or something in a later season that's fine.

[Lord Flashheart]

Renly not eating a peach while treating with Stannis. Unforgivable.

[The She Wolf]

I honestly can't think of much for season 1, because it seems very close to the books in hindsight.

I guess the LF/Ros scene was a stupid way to give the whole LF/Cat background story. I wonder how many people were able to pay attention to the story with that "distraction".

Nothing else that I recall seems big enough to even mention. I liked season 1 :)

[RSasoiaf]

I am currently rewatching and rereading. Actually I am doing this to kind of help a good friend who is reading and watching for his 1st time.

As his decision, we are doing it episode by episode. It can be tricky sometimes because I have to be sure when to tell him he can watch each episode and all the time I cant reveal or discuss any spoilers. So far so good :)

Back on topic, there are several minor things which are....really out of place:

Episode 1:

. Arya a skilled warrior: totally not true and it makes easy something that she will have to bruise herself out on the books. It also becomes a little bit weird how come she is a skilled archer but then has to ask the butcher´s boy to practice swordfight. Whoever did teach her to fire that well is not around anymore??? Because for sure it was not the butcher´s boy unless he was also little Robin Hood in disguise :)

. Cat not displaying her political interest on Sansa´s marriage and also not displaying all her hatred for Jon....doesnt make sense not to have both.

. Jon being kept outside the feast also makes no sense. Specially because they seem to decide that Cat is a nice women but now they want her to have Jon without dinner??? And Ned will agree???? All brothers and sisters will also not find a way to get Jon into the hall somewhere among the servants???? Some family we have here!!!!! It also will get us without the fact that Mance did see Jon at the feast. I just dont get the issue...did they lack the extras to keep the feast set for a couple more minutes just for Jon to talk with Benjen and leave in tears finding Tyrion outside? The book version was way better then a guy just standing at the door like a dog swinging his sword at some wood.

. And the BIG ONE: Drogo being overly agressive to Danny on her first night and this is something that actually my friend was really bothered about also. Book Danny would have been contemplating suicide from the get go with no need for all the strain of riding all day long for weeks.

. Finally: Why did they change the mechanics on who wanted Sansa to testify and why???? It makes no sense this way!!! So are we to expect Cersei had Sansa ready to come in at her request? And Sansa was not with her father? Also, why does Sansa show up no behalf of the queen and say she does not remember a thing. Was that what Cersei told her to say? How dumb is that? If Cersei did get something together with Sansa I would expect Sansa would go fully with Joffrey version or not stand forward to testify at all. Its just weird.....did they not read the full chapter??? Was someone drunk writting this script? Its just....like if someone is really really careless on scriptwritting.

Episode 2:

. Tyrion waking up among the goats???????? REALLY??????? Do you think his father would let him live would he do something like that in public and at Winterfell nonetheless??? loool Tyrion may be a drunk (which he doesnt seem to be that often), he may like whores (which he doesnt seem to have that many actually), but he sure is clever enough to have some composure and behave at Winterfell and when travelling with the King´s court. Also, this then makes a bit silly all the Impslapping because.....what´s really the moral behind you halfuncle who were just there sleeping with some goats???? Let me tell grandfather where I just found you and he will love to know!!!!!!!

. Cersei talking with Cat about a suposed son she had with Robert. This one was a plothole that does not lead anywhere and its just here out of the left field. WHY??? I still wonder why would Cersei troll Cat because its not her character to do that and specially not like that. But also the notion that she once did give a chance to Robert??? Really??? She is suposed to hate the guy since their first night together when he showed up drunk and babling about Lyanna. If Cersei did give him a real chance then all the blame goes to Robert for "f****" the marriage. But this will get us in all kinds of problems both in Cersei vs Robert and in Cersei vs Jaime. I wonder what Jaime would be willing to do for love had Cersei actually decided to give Robert a chance and have a true Baratheon....would Jaime still care that much about her??? I think above all this goes against all the gravity behind Cersei / Jaime relationship which the show should not undermine so early. Yes...Cersei will undermine it once Jaime is captured, but thats only when Jaime is away and that will be important for Jaime.

. CSI Cat was also a waste of time. I think no one was in need of any further reason to believe she would think the Lannisters could be behind Brann´s murder atempt. There was no need for CSI Cat and that time could have been used to something else.

. Cat discussing that she will go on the Kings Road and arrive at Kings Landing before everyone else. Ahhhemmm......whait a second there lady....Are you discussing a plan where you will ride on the same path everyone else is and actually overtake them without them noticing you doing that??? Ok...there will have to be some cloak and dagger job there for Sor Rodrik....I guess they could do it....maybe....but it´s just dumb not to tell the audience they can go through a different way which is also faster then ridding a horse. Technically they would need to switch horses constantly in order to overtake Robert and only god knows how they would do that without someone telling Ned or the Lannisters: "Hey, lady Stark is riding our way and riding fast!"

. Ahhh and this one is nitpicking but....who the hell lives a direwolf just standing in the mid of the camp and hopes she will stay there until....who knows!!! That was so clearly fake...it´s one of those details that make you think its a movie and not for real.

. The whole mechanics behind Sansa testifying are butchered on the series and make no sense at all. Was she on Cersei side? Why did Cersei call her if she did not know what Sansa would say? If she did agree something with Sansa, did they agree on her saying that she did not remember anything? How does that help Joffrey really? On my book it seems like Cersei was trying to force Sansa but Sansa is too scared even to say anything....which actually would further incriminate Jofrrey if there was someone there with half a brain. In the book Sansa was with Ned and it was Ned who wanted her to come forth and tell the TRUTH. And she did not want because she knew she was to marry Joff....which makes sense!!! And Ned could understand that later on. Why could they not write the damn thing like the book??? Do not understand what were they thinking and what was the point.

And we are still by episode 2 :)

[Dragonstoned]

Waiting for approval on a thread I made yesterday that I'd been thinking about for a while after starting another re-read of AGoT. Basically looking at s1 as an adaptation and deciding whether it deserves the praise it gets.

(C'mon mods get on it)

[Fightbringer]

i'd say season 1 isn't particularly different from the books and the areas where there are small changes make sense, eg Tyrion getting knocked out before the Green Fork to save the budget being destroyed by actually showing the battle (actually liked this change, cos book tyrion kills several people in the battle, which is a bit unrealistic in my mind) and the whole blackfish thing too. The only part that comes to mind for bad is they missed out the bit with sansa telling cersei neds plans before he moves to put stannis on the throne

[RSasoiaf]

i'd say season 1 isn't particularly different from the books and the areas where there are small changes make sense, eg Tyrion getting knocked out before the Green Fork to save the budget being destroyed by actually showing the battle (actually liked this change, cos book tyrion kills several people in the battle, which is a bit unrealistic in my mind) and the whole blackfish thing too. The only part that comes to mind for bad is they missed out the bit with sansa telling cersei neds plans before he moves to put stannis on the throne

Actually I hate the chomic moment and its something I usually fast forward. And mind you I love season 1 :) Its a great job!!!!

But this particular instance is way way unrealistic!!!!

I would like to see you on a batlefield running against and hitting your comanding officer.....just try!!!!!! He may be as small as you want, during middle ages there were kids leading armies around. Still, I would love to see you try and knock one of them over just for fun. You understand your life would end at the same instance because not even your comrades would want you fighting at their side if you hit your own people.

As for Tyrion fighting. It may or may not be unrealistic. It all depends on what skill does he have. It is quite clear through the books that he works his arms a bit and he has some power. So the question is if he also has some weapon training. I would say most likely!!! He is after all a boy and a Lannister. He must have had some master of arms like Sor Rodrik when he was a kid and he also had a brother who is one of the most talented warriors worldwide. Do you think they never practiced together? Not even just for fun? Do you think Jaime never teached is little brother a couple warrior tricks? Make perfect sense he did!

Now, if you have someone smaller but with some skill, there is actually no big issue with him being combat efective. Even swordfight is not all about size. Not at all!!! Granted Tyrion may have some speed and agility issues due to his legs but he still has strenght. Also have in mind he was not facing people like Barristan or the likes. He was facing mostly inexperienced warriors who may have had worst training than he had himself. He was also not that efective overal during the battle. He actually came quite close to get killed and it was obvious he could not match some of his oponents.

In the end, its actually a lot more possible than him being hit by his own troops like they did on the series. The way they did it on the series is 200% impossible to happen in real life. So it just doesnt make sense to cal realism in order to defend something that is 200% not possible.

[YouSnowNothing]

BAH! Everything was stupid and unbelievable! Khal Drogo was half an inch too short, they cut three lines and the Winterfell windows were the wrong size!! So UNREALISTIC and cliched. D&D untalented hacks, making television for lowest common denominator! Books better, tv 200% UNPOSSIBLE IT'S TRUE I DID THE MATHS