What will Danaerys be doing in Season 4? (book spoilers)

[gmk]

I'm still predicting that Danaerys will choose to govern Yunkai instead of take Mereen because of how they conquered Yunkai on the show the same way they conquered Mereen in the book. Like many people have pointed out, taking another city will feel repetitive (even though I personally prefer she take Mereen).

I predict the following: Dany chooses to stay in Yunkai, some drama which reveals what Mormont did in season 1 which leads to his banishment (fill in how), restraining her increasingly uncontrollable dragons, struggling with feeding thousands of freed slaves shutting down and reopening the slave trade and fighting pits. If all of this sounds boring, it's because Dany will only be appearing in a handful of episodes breifly (like Balon and Yara in season 3 or Robb and Theon in season 1). This will anger many unsullied Dany fans but there is no other way.

Everything else from marrying Hizdar (or however you spell his name) to Drogon whisking her away from the fighting pit can take place in season 5.

I could totally see this except for one thing:

If they are going to cut a slaver city, wouldn't they cut Yunkai and keep Meereen, instead of the other way round?

[Strytos]

I think its possible they will invent an entirely original (side) plot for Dany, beyond what they did in Qarth. There just isn't enough story line left; if you take too much from ADWD they will run out of story in season 5.

A lot of book readers want the tv audience to suffer the same disillusionment and boredom with Dany that they experienced, but I suspect many will be disappointed. Dany is arguably the most important character for the tv series, there is just no way the producers would be interested to see her story stall in the same way as it did in the books. However, I always felt her remaining arc will probably play better on screen than it did on page. Condensing the Meereen plot while cutting out most of the inner monologue will instantly make the story more interesting without having to change that much.

[boojam]

I think its possible they will invent an entirely original (side) plot for Dany, beyond what they did in Qarth. There just isn't enough story line left; if you take too much from ADWD they will run out of story in season 5.

A lot of book readers want the tv audience to suffer the same disillusionment and boredom with Dany that they experienced, but I suspect many will be disappointed. Dany is arguably the most important character for the tv series, there is just no way the producers would be interested to see her story stall in the same way as it did in the books. However, I always felt her remaining arc will probably play better on screen than it did on page. Condensing the Meereen plot while cutting out most of the inner monologue will instantly make the story more interesting without having to change that much.

Dany does not have that many chapters in SoS but they are action filled , as with season 3 I think she only get one sequence or two per episode, unless they elaborate the conquest of Meereen.

You know after this season KL kind of goes into limbo, there is a ton of stuff to finish up on , but after Tyrion leaves, I don't know what they are going to do.

By season 5 is all Wall, the Greyjoys, Braavos, and ... well who want's see Jamie moping up Westeros? What's on the page that I liked and don't complain about is George's elaboration of 'loops' , in Dany and Brienne stories , ok on the printed page... but not as visual narrative. I think those stories are going to need so very creative invention to make them move.

Arya's story in Braavos is a bit static, but also very inventive and weird, I like that kind of stuff.

[JagLover]

I think its possible they will invent an entirely original (side) plot for Dany, beyond what they did in Qarth. There just isn't enough story line left; if you take too much from ADWD they will run out of story in season 5.

A lot of book readers want the tv audience to suffer the same disillusionment and boredom with Dany that they experienced, but I suspect many will be disappointed. Dany is arguably the most important character for the tv series, there is just no way the producers would be interested to see her story stall in the same way as it did in the books. However, I always felt her remaining arc will probably play better on screen than it did on page. Condensing the Meereen plot while cutting out most of the inner monologue will instantly make the story more interesting without having to change that much.

Agreed

If she is going to land in Westeros in WOW, then start her heading in that direction toward the end of S4. Have Yunkai stand in for Mereen as a place where Dany can learn she is a conqueror not a ruler and have that plotline take up only half a season. They have a chance to avoid the 'Mereenese' knot by never going there in the first place!

[Ordos]

Agreed

If she is going to land in Westeros in WOW, then start her heading in that direction toward the end of S4. Have Yunkai stand in for Mereen as a place where Dany can learn she is a conqueror not a ruler and have that plotline take up only half a season. They have a chance to avoid the 'Mereenese' knot by never going there in the first place!

Wait? Half a season you say? Heading to Westeros by the end of season 4? Are you suggesting we get into book 6 material in Season 4!!??

[boojam]

Agreed

If she is going to land in Westeros in WOW, then start her heading in that direction toward the end of S4. Have Yunkai stand in for Mereen as a place where Dany can learn she is a conqueror not a ruler and have that plotline take up only half a season. They have a chance to avoid the 'Mereenese' knot by never going there in the first place!

Well there is no 'bring down the house' moment after the Battle at the Wall, unless you count Dany, Drogon and the Pit, which is kind of off-the-wall different zinger... but the breaking the siege of Meereen could be another Neil Marshall show piece , if that's what in the cards for WoW.

They could fore go that, but would hate to see it , with the money it could be a day time land sea battle.

Somewhere there has to be the show down with The Others which should be the biggest action of them all, or George could just pull something really goofy on us!

[JagLover]

Wait? Half a season you say? Heading to Westeros by the end of season 4? Are you suggesting we get into book 6 material in Season 4!!??

If that gets the Dany storyline moving, then that is exactly what I am saying. If there is indeed a two book resolution to this series (which I doubt) I could easily see the bulk of book 6 Dany storyline being taken up by resolving the situation at Mereen, gathering her armies etc, and then a very rushed journey to Westeros (if she ever gets there). There is a long way between Yunkai and Westeros and it could easily be over a season worth of material getting Dany and her army poised to invade. You wouldn't effect in any way anyone else's storyline except the characters with Dany and Tyrion so all of the KL material could play out exactly as in the book, but you would get a real sense of progression and movement, something sadly lacking in the books.

[Zombies That Were Promised]

Assuming TWOW is as plot-driven as ASOS, I can easily see Dany's chapters like this:

Daenerys I: Khal Jhaqo & Mago

Daenerys II: Vaes Dothrak

Daenerys III: Meereen

Daenerys IV: Meereen

Daenerys V: Volantis

Daenerys VI: Dragonstone

Daenerys VII: King's Landing

Daenerys VIII: King's Landing

Daenerys IX: Second Dance with Dragons

Daenerys X: Aftermath of dead fAegon & Rallying to fight The Others in ADOS

[Ordos]

If that gets the Dany storyline moving, then that is exactly what I am saying. If there is indeed a two book resolution to this series (which I doubt) I could easily see the bulk of book 6 Dany storyline being taken up by resolving the situation at Mereen, gathering her armies etc, and then a very rushed journey to Westeros (if she ever gets there). There is a long way between Yunkai and Westeros and it could easily be over a season worth of material getting Dany and her army poised to invade. You wouldn't effect in any way anyone else's storyline except the characters with Dany and Tyrion so all of the KL material could play out exactly as in the book, but you would get a real sense of progression and movement, something sadly lacking in the books.

I'd actually like this. A tiny bit of book 3 material, all of book 5 material, and a little bit of book 6 material all in Season 4 for Dany. Only problem is Tyrion and Victarion's storylines would have to be somewhat rushed to get this done. Or they would have to remove a lot of material. Maybe Tyrion does not escape King's landing and Aegon does not appear in the TV show.

So yeah I'd agree except I'd be disappointed at the omission of Aegon/Young Griff who is my favorite character. (keep in mind the person I'm replying to talks about Dany heading to Westeros in season 4, so I'm not speculating on Season 5)

[The Idiots Lantern]

I'd actually like this. A tiny bit of book 3 material, all of book 5 material, and a little bit of book 6 material all in Season 4 for Dany. Only problem is Tyrion and Victarion's storylines would have to be somewhat rushed to get this done. Or they would have to remove a lot of material. Maybe Tyrion does not escape King's landing and Aegon does not appear in the TV show.

D&D will not be rushing anything. They want to give George as much time as possible to finish book 6. They won't move up the timeline or change the circumstances of Dany's invasion just because someone thinks the Meereen chapters are boring.

I think we'll probably get Aegon, Quentyn, Victarion and all the rest of them. Season 4 will be her taking Meereen, discovering Jorah's tretchery, and exhiling him. Season 5 will be her attempts to rule Meereen. Season 6 will depend on weither or not Winds of Winter is out yet, but if it's not, expect D&D to split Meereen between two seasons to make the material last.

[kecsek]

D&D will not be rushing anything. They want to give George as much time as possible to finish book 6. They won't move up the timeline or change the circumstances of Dany's invasion just because someone thinks the Meereen chapters are boring.

I think we'll probably get Aegon, Quentyn, Victarion and all the rest of them. Season 4 will be her taking Meereen, discovering Jorah's tretchery, and exhiling him. Season 5 will be her attempts to rule Meereen. Season 6 will depend on weither or not Winds of Winter is out yet, but if it's not, expect D&D to split Meereen between two seasons to make the material last.

How do you think they will manage this? They need S5 written less then a year from now, and once that is done they can't really backtrack. I mean they have to decide before S5 how far into ADWD S5 will get. If they decide to make AFFC/ADWD into 2 seasons they will need to come up with something to do for all characters, and IMO there is very few of them where it's possible to do that.

I think it's more likely that we'll see some ADWD material in S4 for Dany.

[Ordos]

I think it's more likely that we'll see some ADWD material in S4 for Dany.

Yes but the question is how much. All of it? In my personal opinion only about half to three quarters into book 5. Despite some Meereen chapters being easy to skip or speed up, I don't believe they can squeeze material from 3 books into just one season. I believe Drogon whisking Daenerys away from the fighting pit will take place in season 5 NOT season 4 as JagLover was implying.

[kecsek]

Yes but the question is how much. All of it? In my personal opinion only about half to three quarters into book 5. Despite some Meereen chapters being easy to skip or speed up, I don't believe they can squeeze material from 3 books into just one season. I believe Drogon whisking Daenerys away from the fighting pit will take place in season 5 NOT season 4 as JagLover was implying.

Well, not all of it. I could see them going until Qarth declares war on her, and then have S5 end with the battle. I think it's really hard to predict because we don't know how long she will spend with the dothraki, will she be back in Meereen for the battle etc.

I assume D&D are looking at the big picture and speed up or slow down story lines accordingly.

[The Idiots Lantern]

How do you think they will manage this? They need S5 written less then a year from now, and once that is done they can't really backtrack. I mean they have to decide before S5 how far into ADWD S5 will get. If they decide to make AFFC/ADWD into 2 seasons they will need to come up with something to do for all characters, and IMO there is very few of them where it's possible to do that.

Finding "something" for everyone to do is the easy part with source material this dense, but as you say, once you've passed a threshold you cannot go back. This is all a reason to go slower through the books, not faster. Fortunately Meereen comes with several events that can be made into season enders if necessary: the child's bones, her marriage, the dragon ride... to blow all that material in season 4 and 5 and be faced with the difficult choice of either going ahead in the George's storyline, deviating from the book, or putting the show on hold. No one wants that.

[Hiram McDrogon]

I'd actually like this. A tiny bit of book 3 material, all of book 5 material, and a little bit of book 6 material all in Season 4 for Dany. Only problem is Tyrion and Victarion's storylines would have to be somewhat rushed to get this done.

Something that just occurred to me: could Euron/Victarion (I think there's a significant chance they'll be fused) appear in Meereen, without even coming back to the Iron Islands? I'm not endorsing this, but it could be a shortcut for them.

Having Tyrion just suddenly appear in Meereen two episodes after fleeing King's Landing would be easy for them to do: TV-only viewers wouldn't blink an eye. I'm not saying it'd be a good thing, but, if they're looking to speed things up, it's an obvious place to do so. I think they'll want to keep Tyrion just about meeting Danaerys (why rob TV viewers of that wonderful/awful moment of "Thank God, two of our key characters are finally going to meet!"), and if that's the case, the earliest we'd see Danaerys's flight would be a few episodes into Season 5.

It all depends on how they're planning to pace out the whole eight seasons - assuming that's what they're even trying to do! If there's a lot of stuff in the final two books that they know about and want to get to, then Meereen may be dramatically sped up.

I suspect, and indeed hope, that GRRM's writing speed has nothing to do with how they're pacing the show. D&D apparently know the broad strokes of what remains, and if they're being responsible to the show they're creating, they should be planning the arcs out with the eight seasons they seem to expect to have. If they have detailed material from Martin, then great: I'm sure they'll be happy to use it. If he hasn't written it yet, then the TV show will get ahead of the books (I consider the latter option far more likely).

Dany's Season 4 story can probably help us predict what's coming in the final two (or more?) books: if D&D rush Dany's storyline, then we know she's going to be doing A LOT in those last two books, and they want to rush through DwD to get to the invasion or whatever happens.

Ending Season 4 with the dead child would contrast nicely with the end of Season 3, and now that I think of it, such a contrast could even retroactively save a closing scene that I found poorly done.

[kecsek]

Finding "something" for everyone to do is the easy part with source material this dense, but as you say, once you've passed a threshold you cannot go back. This is all a reason to go slower through the books, not faster. Fortunately Meereen comes with several events that can be made into season enders if necessary: the child's bones, her marriage, the dragon ride... to blow all that material in season 4 and 5 and be faced with the difficult choice of either going ahead in the George's storyline, deviating from the book, or putting the show on hold. No one wants that.

While there is enough material to make 2 seasons out of AFFC/ADWD, I don't think there is enough to make 2 good seasons out of it. I don't think it makes sense for the TV show to slow down to give GRRM more time, afterall their goal should be to make a good show, not to drag it out. Of course ideally the books would be out before the show, but I don't think it's likely to happen.

Meereen might have events that make a good ending point for several seasons, but not the other stories, and the showrunners need to come up with a coherent timeline.

As I said above IMO Qarth declaring war would be a good ending point, it would foreshadow her troubles for S5, and something for the viewers to look forward to.

[Hagen of Tronje]

Assuming TWOW is as plot-driven as ASOS, I can easily see Dany's chapters like this:

Daenerys I: Khal Jhaqo & Mago

Daenerys II: Vaes Dothrak

Daenerys III: Meereen

Daenerys IV: Meereen

Daenerys V: Volantis

Daenerys VI: Dragonstone

Daenerys VII: King's Landing

Daenerys VIII: King's Landing

Daenerys IX: Second Dance with Dragons

Daenerys X: Aftermath of dead fAegon & Rallying to fight The Others in ADOS

I'd like that, but I think that's probably just wishful thinking. Seems a bit rushed too.

[JagLover]

D&D will not be rushing anything. They want to give George as much time as possible to finish book 6. They won't move up the timeline or change the circumstances of Dany's invasion just because someone thinks the Meereen chapters are boring.

I think we'll probably get Aegon, Quentyn, Victarion and all the rest of them. Season 4 will be her taking Meereen, discovering Jorah's tretchery, and exhiling him. Season 5 will be her attempts to rule Meereen. Season 6 will depend on weither or not Winds of Winter is out yet, but if it's not, expect D&D to split Meereen between two seasons to make the material last.

Aside from the issue of whether the Mereen chapters are boring or not (I find much of it rather dull myself) there are two structural problems with Mereen and ADWD in general. First of all there is Dany and her future role. Dany has been set up from the start as a very important character, perhaps the most important as she actually had her very own world created to be her playground in Essos. However, due to structural problems, or writers block etc it seems likely that her resolution is going to be very rushed, if we believe there is going to be a two book resolution to the series. Secondly Essos has never been a fully fleshed out world like Westeros. This is not to say I do not like eastern based fantasy (the Empire series by Feist and Wurts is very good for example) but it needs to be properly realised and with POV characters from that culture to both work and be interesting. Moving away from this issue the Producers would have to be rather stupid to delay the series to fit to GRRM's writing schedule, which, by bitter experience, is subject to constant delay. The main point about making changes to the Dany storyline is that it should not impact on anyone with a decent storyline in AFFC/ADWD, examples would be Kings Landing which I have already mentioned but also Jon, Theon, Arya and Sansa. Aside from that let their imaginations run riot and introduce some much needed plot progression.

[JagLover]

Yes but the question is how much. All of it? In my personal opinion only about half to three quarters into book 5. Despite some Meereen chapters being easy to skip or speed up, I don't believe they can squeeze material from 3 books into just one season. I believe Drogon whisking Daenerys away from the fighting pit will take place in season 5 NOT season 4 as JagLover was implying.

Actually I was implying we wouldn't have Drogon whisking Dany away from the fighting pit at all, because the entire sequence of events leading up to that would not take place. If they decide to film all of Dany's storyline in ADWD I am sure it can drag on easily until the end of S5.

[JagLover]

Having Tyrion just suddenly appear in Meereen two episodes after fleeing King's Landing would be easy for them to do: TV-only viewers wouldn't blink an eye. I'm not saying it'd be a good thing, but, if they're looking to speed things up, it's an obvious place to do so. I think they'll want to keep Tyrion just about meeting Danaerys (why rob TV viewers of that wonderful/awful moment of "Thank God, two of our key characters are finally going to meet!"), and if that's the case, the earliest we'd see Danaerys's flight would be a few episodes into Season 5.

Exactly what I would do, though replace Mereen with Yunkai. There is past form in both the books and series. For example Cat leaves Winterfell one scene and arrives in KL the next. If nothing particularly interesting happens in a journey then DON'T SHOW IT. It could be easily explained as a journey of a few weeks by boat.